davidbrit2 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 My ROM set has a homebrew subdirectory which currently contains a ton of unfinished junk made in batari Basic. Is there any easy way I can identify ROMs made with bB so I can move them all to a separate batari Basic and/or WIP subdirectory? Any sort of consistent fingerprint within the ROMs that I could look for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Easy! Load up in your favorite emulator and look for painfully ugly, blocky, drab looking crap that's devoid of color variation and has thin lines running through most of it. <--- puts on flame retardant suit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbrit2 Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Easy! Load up in your favorite emulator and look for painfully ugly, blocky, drab looking crap that's devoid of color variation and has thin lines running through most of it. <--- puts on flame retardant suit. Well yeah, if the Harmony Cart menu had a way to directly delete files, I'd just do that. Not that there aren't some good bB games out there, but man, the unplayable rubbish has to outnumber it at least 10-to-1. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uNi73 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Emu in Window-Mode and Explorer with Roms in the background. Found something you want to get rid off --> load next game (not be able to delete a file that is running), ESC and delete. Not that easy, but best I can think of, without writing a little prog.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) I swear, man, I'm seeing a 17-1 shit BB-to-good games ratio. If I increase my standards and look at it another way, I count 22 homebrew games worthwhile. BB or not. Edited October 26, 2014 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbrit2 Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Emu in Window-Mode and Explorer with Roms in the background. Found something you want to get rid off --> load next game (not be able to delete a file that is running), ESC and delete. Not that easy, but best I can think of, without writing a little prog.. I'm comfortable with knocking together something in C# if there's a consistent way to fingerprint the binaries. Maybe I'll just have to open a couple in a hex editor and see if I can spot anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uNi73 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 That should be no prob, bB can only load games, made with bB. So, you dont need to find anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Just be sure not to bitch that it's cheating when we get some good bB DPC+ games: randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-cheating.html If you want better-looking games, bB DPC+ is the only way it's going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbrit2 Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Just be sure not to bitch that it's cheating when we get some good bB DPC+ games: randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-cheating.html If you want better-looking games, bB DPC+ is the only way it's going to happen. Doesn't bother me one bit. I just want to cull the crappy and unfinished ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The bB initialization routine does a check to see if the machine is a 7800 or 2600, which I think would be fairly unique. Try searching for "78 D8 A0 00 A5 D0" in the ROMs. I agree that a great deal of bB games are unfinished and ugly. Often the authors of these spend a few hours following a tutorial and feel their game is cart-worthy. Such is the price for lowering the bar. The payoff for dealing with this is getting gems that are produced by more caring hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KaeruYojimbo Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Easy! Load up in your favorite emulator and look for painfully ugly, blocky, drab looking crap that's devoid of color variation and has thin lines running through most of it. <--- puts on flame retardant suit. You just described a pretty fair number of commercial games too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 My ROM set has a homebrew subdirectory which currently contains a ton of unfinished junk made in batari Basic. Is there any easy way I can identify ROMs made with bB so I can move them all to a separate batari Basic and/or WIP subdirectory? Any sort of consistent fingerprint within the ROMs that I could look for? Go into topics that state the game is finished and download it. Play the games and decide what you like. I'm certainly not going to endorse a utility that arbitrarily weeds out batari BASIC games due to weird preconceptions. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I wouldn't say it's the best use for such a utility either. There are a crappy unfinished assembly homebrews, and crappy commercial games as KaeruYojimbo points out. Frankly, I felt like I was bilked back in the day when I bought Airlock, even though I picked it up for $5. Just the same, if someone has a bias against bB generally, I say let them avoid them. Missing out on the good stuff is punishment enough. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbrit2 Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 My observation is that if you separate 2600 games into three categories - commercial releases, assembly homebrews, and bB homebrews - you will find a MUCH higher percentage of unredeemable garbage among bB ROM releases. As was said, it's like anybody who spent a couple hours with a bB tutorial thinks they've made something worthy of release. If I can move the bB ROMs to their own subdirectory, it'll make it a lot easier for me to find what's actually good among them and the assembly homebrews. Anyway, I knocked together a simple search tool in C# this morning. I'll have to give it a test run later and see if it can identify them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 That's your own opinion. You can make your own utility based on your own opinion. Personally, I think it's easier to just go to http://www.atari2600homebrew.com/ and download finished games and decide for myself. Why bring the hate directly to the batari BASIC section? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 As was said, it's like anybody who spent a couple hours with a bB tutorial thinks they've made something worthy of release. Yep, I don't like it when there is no bug testing, no polishing, the sprites aren't animated, lazy sound effects are used, then it's rushed to cartridge and collectors race to buy every copy they can get their hands on. It also seems like the Tinkernut tutorial ended up doing more harm than good. Check out the text below the "how to make a game" video: randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-batari-basic-vbb.html#tutorial01 It starts with "Please do not edit the Tinkernut demo program a tiny bit, then present it as your own original work." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbrit2 Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 That's your own opinion. You can make your own utility based on your own opinion. Personally, I think it's easier to just go to http://www.atari2600homebrew.com/ and download finished games and decide for myself. Why bring the hate directly to the batari BASIC section? Really? I don't hate bB. Don't try to put words in my mouth. There's quite a few cool bB games out there. The problem is that the shitty ones seem to outnumber them by at least an order of magnitude. Those are the ones I want to get rid of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 My ROM set has a homebrew subdirectory which currently contains a ton of unfinished junk made in batari Basic. commercial releases, assembly homebrews, and bB homebrews - you will find a MUCH higher percentage of unredeemable garbage among bB ROM releases. YOU find a higher percentage because you can't sort out your own ROMs. That comment wasn't needed. It could have been entirely omitted from your query to this group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 DavidBrit,I think the ratio isn't too different from the classic ROM collection. Best to just create a good folder and put the good games in there; finding them is part of the fun and cannot be watermarked How does your filtering program work? Each game has a distinct audio visual fingerprint that is complex and must be experienced and interpreted though the senses; maybe a sentient Eliza-like program could be devised to actually try the games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbrit2 Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 YOU find a higher percentage because you can't sort out your own ROMs. That comment wasn't needed. It could have been entirely omitted from your query to this group. "The [gentleman] doth protest too much, methinks." DavidBrit, I think the ratio isn't too different from the classic ROM collection. Best to just create a good folder and put the good games in there; finding them is part of the fun and cannot be watermarked How does your filtering program work? Each game has a distinct audio visual fingerprint that is complex and must be experienced and interpreted though the senses; maybe a sentient Eliza-like program could be devised to actually try the games. HondaRobot.jpg I just made something like grep that operates on binary files/patterns. I'm going to try feeding it that fingerprint that Rev Eng posted earlier and see how it fares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Nah. I just expected more class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Felt I should try to clarify or partially retract what I had to say about bB games in general. Sometimes my sense of humor gets the best of me. Especially in the later hours after a few. haha While I feel most bB games have a very similar look and feel, that is not to say that I do not care for *any* of them. Certainly are some great efforts and the ones that are, have all made it to the AA store. Didn't mean to put down the entire scope of the language. Have great respect for the tool in general and for the people here that are taking the time to produce stuff using it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I just made something like grep that operates on binary files/patterns. I'm going to try feeding it that fingerprint that Rev Eng posted earlier and see how it fares. No, no you cannot Grep to find the good games, you must teach your robot to Grok. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I know where you come from save2600. godzillajoe is even in my groove (even though he has been a harsh critic at times). I respect that you play games and give pointed feedback on those games. I don't respect others that give blanket statements that pizz on a whole community. Utilities like the one the O.P. wants to make support a very narrow minded view and exacerbate it. Imagine someone takes this one step further and develops a "ROM cleanup" tool that rips out terrible first attempts like Drunken Pooper but also stunning games like Princess Rescue - all because "bB". That's sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbrit2 Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 I know where you come from save2600. godzillajoe is even in my groove (even though he has been a harsh critic at times). I respect that you play games and give pointed feedback on those games. I don't respect others that give blanket statements that pizz on a whole community. Utilities like the one the O.P. wants to make support a very narrow minded view and exacerbate it. Imagine someone takes this one step further and develops a "ROM cleanup" tool that rips out terrible first attempts like Drunken Pooper but also stunning games like Princess Rescue - all because "bB". That's sad. You're reading way too much into this. Take a chill pill. There's some really impressive stuff like Princess Rescue, DK Arcade 2600, and Zippy the Porcupine. But the vast majority of bB ROMs in my collection are on the level of junk like Drunken Pooper. If I move all the bB ROMs to a separate bB and/or WIP directory, it'll make it a lot easier to sift through the assembly homebrews, and rummage through some of the bB stuff when the mood hits me, or I hear a game name worth checking out. So rather than stomping your foot and slinging ad-hominems, how about pointing me to a list of the best bB games so I can give them a try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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