Atari 7800 system review by the Videogamecritic

[Mister-VCS]

"- Uninspired game library

- Mediocre graphics and sound

- Poorly designed controller"

 

"The 7800 was actually a small step down from the Atari 5200"

 

Topic-starters note: A good example is Xevious (7800 vs. 5200 proto): both titles nearly looks identical, if not

better on the 5200...

 

5200: 7800:

 

 

 

 

 

"The 7800 sound capilities are meager at best, probably comparable to the Atari 2600"

 

Topic-starters note: The 7800 uses the same sound-chip as the 2600- that is the reason why the sound capilities are comparable...

[Jinks]

Thanks for the trollinfo.

Those purple blobs on the 5200 look like crap compared to the 7800. Look at some of the homebrews. There is no comparison.

Whoever wrote this is clueless.

I guess some 7800 guy has to make a post on the jag forum claiming the controller and graphics to be superior.

Yeah the 5200 controller was awesome crap.

Compatible with absolutely nothing.

Dont EVER even mention controllers to the 7800 crowd when comparing the 5200. wink wink smiley rotfl gtfo lol lolz rolls eyes.

[8th lutz]

Thanks for the trollinfo.

Those purple blobs on the 5200 look like crap compared to the 7800. Look at some of the homebrews. There is no comparison.

Whoever wrote this is clueless.

I guess some 7800 guy has to make a post on the jag forum claiming the controller and graphics to be superior.

Yeah the 5200 controller was awesome crap.

Compatible with absolutely nothing.

Dont EVER even mention controllers to the 7800 crowd when comparing the 5200. wink wink smiley rotfl gtfo lol lolz rolls eyes.

I went to video video game critic's site since the early 2000's.

 

The Videogame critic did the system review many years ago. He did the Atari 7800 system around the 2004- 2006 time period. There was not homebrew games on the Atari 7800 to compare to at the time.

[Greg2600]

Other than the 5200 part, his opinion is not without merit.

[Rhomaios]

Unlike the Jaguar, the 7800 really is lost potential. The NES easily beats it in many respects, mostly having a super game library and a not crappy controller. I don't think he's accurate about the mediocre graphics, though. Look at the difference between the NES Winter Games and the 7800 Winter Games.

 

See also: http://www.ataritimes.com/index.php?ArticleIDX=632

[8th lutz]

His opinion outside of the Atari 5200 in terms of the Atari 7800 does have some truth before the Atari 7800 homebrew scene. My younger brother and I got an Atari 7800 for Christmas in 1989. We got a Nes For Christmas of 1991.

 

Based on what I had for Atari 7800 games before the early 2000's, the graphics were behind the Nes and my younger brother had the same view point since not a lot of Atari 7800 games we had matched to the Nes. There also is the fact my younger brother and I didn't know the NES had mappers inside games like Super Mario Brothers 3 as an example.

 

Tower Toppler was the best graphical game for the Atari 7800 I had at the time. I wanted Commando, Ikari Warriors, Basket Brawl, Fatal Run, Midnight Mutants for Christmas of 1990, but I didn't get them for Christmas. My view point on the 7800 graphics would have changed If got Ikari Warriors, commando, and Midnight Mutants.

 

The game library was a mixed big for the Atari 7800 before the homebrew scene. The game library was hurt by the prototype or rumor mill games for the system not released.

 

The simulators for the Atari 7800 weren't fun to play when I was growing up. The Sports lineup wasn't exactly good based on what I owned growing up with One and One Basketball being the best sports game I had for the Atari 7800. The strength of the Atari 7800 for me growing up with was the arcade titles before Double Dragon since I didn't play Commando or Ikrari Warriors at the time.

 

The pro line controller was not a great controller. That controller did bother arms at times. That controller was not made for games like Double Dragon.

Edited October 26, 2014 by 8th lutz

[+thegoldenband]

Other than the 5200 part, his opinion is not without merit.

 

Even that part's debatable, since the 7800 has worse sound and less RAM than the 5200.

[Trebor]

"- Uninspired game library

- Mediocre graphics and sound"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94-pWVgZNyshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLF3HJVCwOQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DjnGy_ZKLshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maKuCZi7MEc

 

"Uninspired" is a very subjective term. Regardless, everyone is entitled to their opinion. The original system library is lacking thanks to the horrendous support it received. A system that is underutilized and much untapped potential...Absolutely.

 

Mediocre graphics? Sure, depending on the game, especially if we're talking the (RealSports) baseball, (Touchdown) football, and wrestling games. All systems have their crap games. Unfortunately, the 7800 is plagued with an unhealthy ratio of them, including computer based (simulation) games and the aforementioned subpar sports titles. Nonetheless, the above videos highlight some of the console's better titles and are a very far cry from mediocre graphics; placing it right with its NES and SMS contemporaries. Much love for the 5200, but it's not coming close to any of the above.

 

Mediocre sound? TIA when handled poorly is mediocre (at best) - which happens to be the case in quite a few 7800 titles. The NES arcade ports being some of the worst. POKEY sound is of course superior. However, TIA is not too shabby - IMHO above "mediocre", referencing again the highlighted titles (Commando excluded using POKEY for its music). Hearing some of the homebrews on the 2600 in addition to those above videos, shows that at the time of the 7800's prime, if the right investment of time and development would have been put into place, it could/may have pulled off some impressive TIA sound:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQPdbdQO7RY

 

That's just the "mediocre sound" of TIA No special chips.

 

BTW, the Xevious 7800 emulator captures is utilizing an inaccurate palette. The water area(s) shouldn't be green.

 

 

Agreed...The (NTSC) controller is "poorly" designed; especially the buttons - at least on execution. There are "Best Electronics" and "Telegames" joysticks very similar to the original Atari NTSC 7800 design, but executed (function) better. A two independent button '2600-like' controller perhaps with a ball-top would have been great as the 7800 pack-in, BITD. Further along that line, perhaps two buttons on each side, for a total of four buttons accommodating left and right handed players, as well as having either 2 independent or 4 independent button functions.

[phoenixdownita]

What's with the inferiority complex?

 

The 7800 is not champion in either gfx, sound or gameplay.

It's got a few interesting games (hardly needing two hands to count them all), and in recent times a few decent homebrew.

 

I agree that the bit on the 5200 is misplaced but other than that the sound is dreadful/abrasive in may games and I don't care if 20Y later someone managed to get half decent sound from TIA, it simply wasn't there when it mattered.

If gfx is superior it doesn't show against SMS or NES, capable or not we judge the system AND the games at once.

 

If you take away homebrew so that you focus on enjoying the original library at the time then you do get:

 

- "Somewhat" Uninspired game library

- "mostly" Mediocre graphics and sound

- "Rather" Poorly designed controller

 

Untapped potential plays no contest here.

 

I enjoy my 7800 like the next guy, but in terms of innovation there's little (Ninja Golf and Food Fight being the odd ones out) so the rest of the library has heavy reliance on rehashes of older games with maybe somewhat improved gfx.

The gfx is by no means mind blowing perhaps on par with NES/SMS perhaps not .... not even an issue because "if you don't use you loose it".

 

So if someone without any 8bits system would ask me what to pick between NES/SMS/7800/5200 I'd say to pick them exactly in that order to enjoy 8bits gaming with a diminishing expectation (again with the exception of a few odd ones here and there).

[Trebor]

So if someone without any 8bits system would ask me what to pick between NES/SMS/7800/5200 I'd say to pick them exactly in that order to enjoy 8bits gaming with a diminishing expectation (again with the exception of a few odd ones here and there).

 

Nicely stated.

 

Although, I would either exclude the 5200, or you may have to wedge the ColecoVision before it. Throw in the Vectrex somewhere too; trying to figure if I tie it with the 5200 or ColecoVision in order of "diminishing expectation", or if it falls even further.

[DracIsBack]

What's with the inferiority complex?

 

 

It's a disagreement. Videogamecritic is setting himself up for it with the way he acts like his opinions are facts, his tastes are gospel and he obviously does so with a clear bias against what folks in the Atari 7800 forum often have a bias toward.

 

:-)

[Lynxpro]

Thanks for the trollinfo.

Those purple blobs on the 5200 look like crap compared to the 7800. Look at some of the homebrews. There is no comparison.

Whoever wrote this is clueless.

I guess some 7800 guy has to make a post on the jag forum claiming the controller and graphics to be superior.

Yeah the 5200 controller was awesome crap.

Compatible with absolutely nothing.

Dont EVER even mention controllers to the 7800 crowd when comparing the 5200. wink wink smiley rotfl gtfo lol lolz rolls eyes.

 

I have both [5200 and 7800] and I'm a fan of both. With that said, when the 5200 joystick works, it rocks. It's certainly more comfortable than the ProLine. And in that regard, the ProLine is a step down from the 5200. The 7800 was meant to be a cost-reduction project. The cartridges themselves aren't as good as the 5200 cartridges, the cartridge slot is anything but ZIF, and thanks to squeezing it into too small of a case, it sacrificed having a POKEY audio chip included standard and so the audio is inferior to the 5200. The 7800 has 4 times less RAM than the 5200.

 

Too few 7800 games feature POKEY audio, and we certainly never received GUMBY or AMY audio enhancements. Hell, we didn't even get Activision's DPC chip either.

 

The 7800 didn't get a kick-ass controller accessory like Dan Kramer's 5200 Trak-Ball Controller either.

 

Atari Corp didn't even honor what was promised by Atari Inc… no ProLine Joystick Coupler, no LaserDisc Player, no High Score Cartridge, no AtariLab accessories, no 7800 Keyboard and no Computer enhancements. We didn't get graphics chips enhancements on cartridge either, even though the 7800 can support them. And Atari Corp failed to get a licensing agreement with Atari Games to guarantee their arcade hits would be available for the 7800 until the console was nearing discontinuance.

 

What you can't take away from the 7800 are its graphics capabilities and 2600 backwards compatibility.

 

 

With having written all of that, the review is terrible.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Lynxpro

[Jinks]

Bs go to the 5200 forum. They are all begging for a compatible functioning controller. What does that tell ya??

The 5200 is too big.

I wish 5200 fans would quit ragging on the 7800 and starting shit. Its like its all they have to do. Play your converted a8 titles and make a new telephone controller we don't care!!!

[DracIsBack]

I wish 5200 fans would quit ragging on the 7800 and starting shit. Its like its all they have to do.

 

 

LOL - while I have much respect for the 5200's library and think it gets bagged on a lot, it is fascinating how much they deliberately go out of their way to drag the 7800 into debates about the 5200 vs. other consoles, even when the comparison has nothing whatsoever to do with the 7800 originally.

[Jinks]

 

 

LOL - while I have much respect for the 5200's library and think it gets bagged on a lot, it is fascinating how much they deliberately go out of their way to drag the 7800 into debates about the 5200 vs. other consoles, even when the comparison has nothing whatsoever to do with the 7800 originally.

The 5200 people should be left alone as well. Yes its library has little to zero duds as compared to almost every console ever made.

 

What the 7800 has today is lots of highly intelligent and talented people creating hardware, a programming platform, and software.

[Greg2600]

This really isn't about the 5200 vs. 7800 or 7800 vs. anything else. The VGC is known for being pretty raw with his reviews. Look, we here all know about why the 7800's shortcomings came to be, but he doesn't. In reality it doesn't matter if he does, because his style is to simply review what is in front of him. Game library, graphics, sound, and the controller are all legit beefs on the system for a game player. Often he will revise reviews when readers complain, although sometimes his review is worse!

[phoenixdownita]

This really isn't about the 5200 vs. 7800 or 7800 vs. anything else. The VGC is known for being pretty raw with his reviews. Look, we here all know about why the 7800's shortcomings came to be, but he doesn't. In reality it doesn't matter if he does, because his style is to simply review what is in front of him. Game library, graphics, sound, and the controller are all legit beefs on the system for a game player. Often he will revise reviews when readers complain, although sometimes his review is worse!

Amen to that!!!!

 

because his style is to simply review what is in front of him

 

I am not saying we should agree with his findings but he's straight to the point and mostly on the spot.

Also it is a VG reviews site, not the spanish inquisition.

 

The 7800 + orig games is a far third in the 8 bits category.

Is it a fun little system to be having around? Absolutely.

With the "untapped potential" will it play any homebrew 4K symphonic orchestrated games anytime soon? Nope.

Does it even matter? Nope, I still like the system for what it is and NOT for what it could/should have been.

 

I understand the feeling of exploring the "what if?" but at the same time we already know what happened so dwelling in dreams of avenging a machine 20Y+ later based on technical merits is something I am not sure why we spend so much time on.

[Trebor]

His review is certainly understandable, even if another person's perspective is different. It would be a shame if only what he did review were the 'rehashed' arcade classics and wonky computer based simulators and/or poor sports titles, and missed out on some of the gems in the collection.

 

Going by the screenshot on his page, it is from an older version of an emulator with graphical issues as well, which, I believe, someone mentioned a time frame of early-mid 2000's from when the system was reviewed. During that period, many of the better/later titles (Midnight Mutants, Alien Brigade, etc.), either did not run at all or ran improperly under emulators.

 

Regardless, the original 7800 library itself leaves a lot to be desired. There is no denying that. Nonetheless, once you glance over his Master System review and compare it to his NES review, it is clear where his preference lies. Again, completely fine...everyone is entitled to their opinion. The SMS is the superior of the three, BTW

 

No one is stating that the 7800 has as good or better original/retail library of games compared to the NES or SMS; neither is there claims the 7800 has overall superior hardware to them - That is just silly. The opening post of this thread, though, was not on any of those topics. Rather, it gave the appearance of trying to make the case of the 5200 being better, as well as stressing the "cons" of Videogamecritic's review of the 7800.

 

I am not sure why so much time is spent on the "Atari 7800" forum trying to stir the pot against the system and/or focus on the negative aspects of the system by some.

[Greg2600]

Going by the screenshot on his page, it is from an older version of an emulator with graphical issues as well, which, I believe, someone mentioned a time frame of early-mid 2000's from when the system was reviewed. During that period, many of the better/later titles (Midnight Mutants, Alien Brigade, etc.), either did not run at all or ran improperly under emulators.

I am not sure why so much time is spent on the "7800 forum" trying to stir the pot against the system and/or focus on the negative aspects of the system by some.

 

I *think* he reviews only with games he can run on original hardware. Where he gets the screenshots I don't know. As for this 7800 forum, normally most forums would just ignore the criticism or let it slide. However, there are a few 7800 diehards who go to great lengths to defend it to all ends of the Earth.

[Trebor]

 

As for this 7800 forum, normally most forums would just ignore the criticism or let it slide. However, there are a few 7800 diehards who go to great lengths to defend it to all ends of the Earth.

 

Interesting perspective. Not sure how you classify "diehards" or what exactly entails "go to great lengths to defend it to all ends of the Earth", surely not following up on a message board dedicated to the system.

 

Personally, I have a great passion for the NES in addition to the 7800. Although I can easily state the SMS crushes them both. I've also stated a few times from the forums on this site and elsewhere, my favorite 8-bit game is Rygar. Hands-down, nothing else comes close. I play it through at least once a year (More like 2-3 times most years) since the late 80's. One of the "Arcade" enhanced/changed ports on the NES that was done right. Really far superior to its Arcade counterpart as far as gameplay is concerned. I still remember how disappointed I was when I first played the original Arcade version of Rygar and it was nothing like NES Rygar...lol.

 

But I digress...Still don't see the point in the negativity towards the 7800 by some. Especially 'funny' when done on the forum dedicated to the system. I guess I sort of interpret it as the bully picking on the less popular or less fortunate kid - the underdog - in the neighborhood. Never stood for it in real life growing up and evidently it carries over in this superficial environment as well.

[RevEng]

As for this 7800 forum, normally most forums would just ignore the criticism or let it slide.

Have you read any of the system XX vs. system YY comparison threads? Not a whole lot of sliding going on.

[Greg2600]

Have you read any of the system XX vs. system YY comparison threads? Not a whole lot of sliding going on.

 

No I normally ignore them! They always wind up being a pissing match.

 

 

Interesting perspective. Not sure how you classify "diehards" or what exactly entails "go to great lengths to defend it to all ends of the Earth", surely not following up on a message board dedicated to the system.

 

Personally, I have a great passion for the NES in addition to the 7800. Although I can easily state the SMS crushes them both. I've also stated a few times from the forums on this site and elsewhere, my favorite 8-bit game is Rygar. Hands-down, nothing else comes close. I play it through at least once a year (More like 2-3 times most years) since the late 80's. One of the "Arcade" enhanced/changed ports on the NES that was done right. Really far superior to its Arcade counterpart as far as gameplay is concerned. I still remember how disappointed I was when I first played the original Arcade version of Rygar and it was nothing like NES Rygar...lol.

 

But I digress...Still don't see the point in the negativity towards the 7800 by some. Especially 'funny' when done on the forum dedicated to the system. I guess I sort of interpret it as the bully picking on the less popular or less fortunate kid - the underdog - in the neighborhood. Never stood for it in real life growing up and evidently it carries over in this superficial environment as well.

 

The OP probably hadn't seen the review before, and decided to comment on it. But great lengths I mean to answer every critique of the 7800 with a 500 word essay. Again, we know why it failed and why the shortfalls came to be. It's irrelevant to a critical reviewer, because he/she is evaluating the finished product.

[Trebor]

 

No I normally ignore them! They always wind up being a pissing match.

 

 

The OP probably hadn't seen the review before, and decided to comment on it. But great lengths I mean to answer every critique of the 7800 with a 500 word essay. Again, we know why it failed and why the shortfalls came to be. It's irrelevant to a critical reviewer, because he/she is evaluating the finished product.

 

"They always wind up being a pissing match", would mean not letting it slide.

 

Looking at the way the review material was presented and commented upon, one can see how it could be taken as yet another instigation of a "pissing match".

 

Regardless, as already stated, everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion; even those that support the 'bully end' of pissing competitions.

 

Time to let this topic "slide".

[Lynxpro]

Bs go to the 5200 forum. They are all begging for a compatible functioning controller. What does that tell ya??

The 5200 is too big.

I wish 5200 fans would quit ragging on the 7800 and starting shit. Its like its all they have to do. Play your converted a8 titles and make a new telephone controller we don't care!!!

 

I have both. I can post in either forum. And what I posted was a fair assessment.

 

The 7800 has better graphics and cartridge bankswitching [not to mention the ability to add graphics chips, sound chips, and even CPUs to its cartridges, to which Atari Corp squandered completely with the exceptions of Ballblazer and Commando] abilities. The 5200 has better stock audio. You say the 5200 is too big, well, the 7800 is too small and that's why it didn't have a POKEY audio chip so 99% of its game library suffers accordingly because of that stupid decision to reuse the Atari 2800/Sears Video Arcade II case.

 

Outside of paddles, I'm unaware of the 7800 having 4-player capabilities unlike the first version of the 5200. Has anyone even investigated whether 4-player joysticks would even be possible with a "team tap" adapter on the 7800? Since at one point Gauntlet was planned to be developed for the console, I hope someone at Atari Corp thought about that [Dark Chambers could've also benefited from that too]. I'm unaware of any such solution for 2-port 5200s or A8 computers; of course, the ST [and the Amiga] overcame its 2-joysick port limitation by allowing for an adapter to connect to the Parallel Port long before the STe/Falcon030/Jaguar brought out the Enhanced Joystick Ports.

 

As for the 5200's joystick issues, Atari Inc. designed self-centering 5200 joysticks that didn't have the carbon dot issue. Curt can attest to that. But the 5200 was cancelled in favor of the 7800 and Atari Inc. didn't release the design. And Atari Corp certainly had no interest in doing so either; it would've killed their sales of existing inventory of 5200 joysticks that could be sold to 5200 owners as "replacements". I didn't have a 5200 growing up; I had a 7800. But now having used working 5200 joysticks, I can say they are better than the ProLines.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Lynxpro

[Greg2600]

You say the 5200 is too big, well, the 7800 is too small and that's why it didn't have a POKEY audio chip so 99% of its game library suffers accordingly because of that stupid decision to reuse the Atari 2800/Sears Video Arcade II case.

 

Oh was that the reason, the case reuse? Good grief what shortsightedness. Poor 7800, a victim of budgetary buffoonery. It does show though how important it was that a system had the proper development and marketing budget though.