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Secretum Labyrinth Kings Gold

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#76 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 6, 2016 1:52 AM

You may want to be a little more careful with your terminology Petey, 'idiot proof' is a little unfair as if we as gamers get stuck in a game its normally because of a bug / programming error and as it was said in general its not clear if you refer to the coding method or the gamer?

 

Not moaning, just pointing out..

 

Paul, President of the 'Let's be nice to gamers' Association...

 

And please lets call it an end to references to Sal, he should have zero impact on your games since the break with him, lets forget that era and move on and up...


Edited by Mclaneinc, Mon Jun 6, 2016 1:55 AM.


#77 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 6, 2016 7:10 AM

Idiot Proof or Fool Proof

That is making the programming logic that draws each room will be set up to prevent problems while entering data. I could have a different person enter all the room data to make their own map. For example, the passage leading from the left of one room will line up with the passage on the right of the next room. Currently it is all procedural drawn and a series of codes tell the room set up routine to put lines and boxes of font characters in each room. It is too easy to make a passage 4 spaces tall on the left of one room, and make it 3 spaces tall on the right of the next one over. So you now have the player getting stuck inside of the wall.  The update I am working on will just have a passage always 4 character spaces in size at the same location along the left or right side of the screen.



#78 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 7, 2016 1:58 PM

just force the new opening to mirror the location during an exit as it builds the entrance with the new room , you can still place the other openings anywhere and do the same things again as the user passed thru them...over and over. I am not sure how this could become and issue that requires fixed positions like that....

 

as far as the idiot proofing.... I am always the one that feels like an idiot when I leave things open for something bad to happen... like not trapping things and having a person in the panic of battle mash keys and watching the program freeze or dump out...simple checks and comparisons and replications on an editor is always a wise decision. It doesn't require much to do.....

   Hey who says every screen need be the same size and shape? perhaps they shouldn't overlap or maybe in the world of a computer if on graph paper they did overlap maybe you could just theorize it's one floor up or down and they don't overlap at all because of that.... and while we are at it maybe the adjacent room is like a portable whole or has dimensional compression like a TARDIS capsule.... 'just sayin' :)

 

Have some fun and break a few barriers! You find yourself in the plain of expanding realms where dimensions have no meaning, The wizard has done this to disorient you!


Edited by _The Doctor__, Tue Jun 7, 2016 2:01 PM.


#79 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 7, 2016 11:10 PM

I am already considering something that would duplicate the positions of doors on adjacent rooms. It would actually allow more rooms to be compacted into whatever media the game will end up on.

Today I did some experiments with moving data and programming around with "Secretum Labyrinth The Legend" and see how much memory can be free up. The first step is to do some of these tests to see how much room can be opened up and then make decisions on how much will be in the next game. I really want to pack many more things into an Adventure game.

 

I am looking at ideals like giving your character a name, saving your game progress to disk, a way to teleport between points after exploring large section of the map, etc.


Edited by peteym5, Tue Jun 7, 2016 11:14 PM.


#80 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 9, 2016 6:51 AM

Doing a Separate Adventure Game on Floppy for the 130XE had been considered. It would be a different game or another game in this series, like Secretum Labyrinth 4. That would be releasing two different games taking advantage of different media and memory spaces. To clear up the misunderstanding, SL1 is Secretum Labyrinth Kings Gold running inside 64K RAM. The cartridge is SL2 "Secretum Labyrinth The Legend" that has more rooms and monsters. We could had a roman numeral for 2 (II) in the title so people know those are 2 different games. The full title of Secretum Labyrinth 3 is still undetermined.

 

Reasons that work against doing the 130XE floppy game, other than concerns about copying, include people with 64K Atari computers won't be able to play. Plus Floppies deteriorate over time, I rescued as much as I could of old games on floppy disks and now stored as ATR images on USB flash drives. I rescued a lot of VIC-20 Basic Games also.


Edited by peteym5, Thu Jun 9, 2016 7:21 AM.


#81 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 9, 2016 2:37 PM

The biggest hit on floppy disks I have encountered is too much moisture/humidity and crazy as it might seem, drastic temp changes and sub zero temps. If the disks are not kept too damp or too dry and the temps aren't crazy high and low they seem to have lasted very well...

 

One of the things going on today is almost nothing is magnetically shielded today... and that has been forgotten about... magnetism and magnetic fields coming from all sorts of devices because they aren't so worried about CRT's and magnetic media anymore... some people even forgot to keep the disks away from a crt these days and you know what happens when your inside that 2 foot radius! Some monitors where shielded back in the day but a good deal were not.. today television speakers are not even shielded.... bad news for a floppy... purses and all kinds of things use magnetic clasps... and on and on the list continues to grow.

 

so keep them in moderate environments and keep them away from your cell phone, tablet, etc etc. and maybe they will last another 30 years!

 

I have had to many failed solid state drives and memory sticks in my lifetime to pick on a floppy.... at least I can recover most of what was on a floppy!

 

_The Doctor__


Edited by _The Doctor__, Thu Jun 9, 2016 2:42 PM.


#82 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:21 AM

I have a technique of recovering old floppies also. It involves cutting the jacket along the edige, taking the floppy out of the jacket. Then rub the whole disk down with rubbing alcohol. Let it dry, put it back into the jacket. Tape over the cut edge. Transfer the contents to a new disk (or hard drive, flash drive). You probably won't be able to use the original floppy to much more, but at least you recovered the information from that disk.

 

One feature I am looking into having with the next game is the ability to save your progress to floppy disk and looking at XBIOS right now. I am intending the game to have a much larger map with many more monsters and items to use.



#83 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:50 PM

Here is an update to "Secretum Labyrinth I:Kings Gold." It has a different algorithm for controlling the delays and speed at which the monsters move around the screen.  This is similar to what I had been testing for the next big cartridge game, although the program code is different. That issue reported with odd graphics flickering for a half frame when going between rooms had been corrected. Although I fail to see why something that is only visible when you run the game in slow motion in the emulator or freeze frame it. This will also be no longer be an issue with the next cartridge game. The backgrounds can be disabled and made a solid color if someone is running from a PAL Atari 8-bit computer.

 

As always "Kings Gold" is a separate game and a demo for this Adventure/RPG engine. I am working on several additional upgrades.

Attached Files


Edited by peteym5, Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:11 PM.


#84 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:28 AM

Attach is an experimental feature test for the next Secretum Labyrinth cartridge. It is "Kings Gold" with alternate music and switches tracks at certain locations inside the map. This is done so the same music is not playing throughout the whole game. There is still an option to turn off the music at the title screen. Secretum Labyrinth Kings Gold will remain as the demo for my RPG/Adventure game series and want it to demonstrate a little bit of each of the games available on cartridge.

 

Also, new background floor patterns are being tested. With manipulating the Atari Font Character Set, I was able to have less pixels in the background on many screens. This is to reduce flickering or pulsing issues with Super IRG and PAL CRTs.

 

As stated, the plans for Secretum Labyrinth III is still in limbo at this point. I want to make something on a larger scale and go more in depth with what you need to do to get beyond points in the game. Have new and interesting things you need to deal with as you go through the dungeons.

 

I am experimenting with porting music from other formats to MOD that can then be imported into RMT. Since KJMANN had to leave due to health reasons and creative differences, I had to spend extra time figuring out how these file formats are set up. I use a program called OPENMPT to port from MIDI, IT, etc. and other formats. I open the file, sometimes need to delete every other line. Select which channels I want to use, and copy parts into a new mod file.


Edited by peteym5, Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:40 AM.


#85 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:59 AM

Liking it bar the flicker which can't be helped but it seems less flickery so that's good, not sure I'd call that noise music but as its just a test its totally understandable :)

 

So, nice work Petey..

 

Thank you..

 

 

Paul...



#86 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:56 PM

I actually found an error with the music pattern with the first song. This should fix it.

 

As I mention, I try to compact everything down to get more out of these games. I have been doing a series of tricks with the RMT music. One is make an RMT file that contains several songs and share a common set of instruments. Probably anyone fluent with RMT knows about this. It is just appending additional songs after the first one that can be tedious. RMT does not support appending, so I have to manually load each track.

 

Attached Files



#87 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 3, 2016 11:14 PM

Some news what is going on with myself is I am taking a break from all the Atari projects and going back to doing some 3D games for the Windows PC. I had these games around for years, but seems like when Microsoft updates their Windows, some of your old stuff no longer works. So I am updating them to work with newer machines, along with tweaking the games themselves. I also have full control of how I can distribute the software, no KJMANN or VIDEO61 involved. Can sell on laser media disc, pay-per-download, shareware and pay for key use beyond a certain time period/turn on features.

 

I really want to get back into the Role Playing/Adventure Game scene on both the Atari and Windows PC. I have a 3D RPG builder I am porting to use different 3D engine. Rather or not we will see Secretum Labyrinth 3D for Windows PC remains to be seen. I prefer to do different games on different platforms.



#88 CharlieChaplin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 4, 2016 3:37 AM

You still support laser discs ? Cool  ;-)



#89 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 4, 2016 7:15 AM

To clear up any confusion. Laser Disk Media is referring to Compact Disc, DVD, and Blu-ray Disc. That other big laserdisc form was something that disappeared back in the 1980s along with Betamax video tapes. I know some people on here are retro with hardware and still may use some of those things. I was referring to what is used with modern computers.



#90 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 4, 2016 7:30 AM

Petey, lighten up sir, it was purely a tongue in cheek joke :)

 

Anyway, nice to hear you are fixing up some of your old stuff..



#91 miker ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 4, 2016 10:55 PM

But on PC there are no cartridges.

 

Or do you mean, erm... dongles? :P



#92 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 7, 2016 7:09 AM

PC certainly never had cartridges, it is a different environment with distributing software. Later computer systems had all software loaded from tape or disk. USB and SD flash drives had been considered, but most PC software is either available through per-per-download, shareware, freeware, or ripped from a bit torrent sight. I am considering making it able to do MMORPGs so we can run those online service.

 

The main program I want to update is my 3D RPG maker which I based upon a Text Adventure Game maker that I made on the Atari 8-bit many years ago. I ported it to the DOS PC. I lost the source for the Atari version.

 

For those that understand the technical details I am phasing out the Truevision 3D engine code and replacing it with Irrlicht Lime 3D engine. Visual Basic.NET remains as the primary source language. When compiled, runs very fast. Its not like Basic on the Atari that is slower than using Assembly.


Edited by peteym5, Wed Sep 7, 2016 7:11 AM.


#93 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 7, 2017 9:09 AM

You trying to make me order this aren't you... but I still can't..... But I want to!

You trying me make me state something negative, but you not. I want to keep this a positive thread and avoid any bashing. I want to keep Secretum Labyrinth Game Series supported by feedback from the community to make great Role Playing and Adventure games that had long been lacking on the Atari 8-bit.

 

At this point I did some experiments with the existing game before I start changing out large chunks of the database for another game. I looked into ideals of different games in the series that run from a set of floppy disks or require 130XE/Extended Memory. But the cartridges remain the best media because their fast loading, won't go bad over time, and won't require extended memory.

 

Seeing that game "GoldenAxe Warrior" that cloned the style of NES Legend of Zelda shows that I can make something much closer to Zelda. However I make these games my own with feedback from the community. Maybe the story for my game won't require 9 different "Levels" or underground dungeons. I am working on Save Progress features, larger dungeons, more monsters, collecting money, trading, etc.

 

I got some feed back privately stating it is be a bad ideal if I did a full Dungeon and Dragons full Character Attribute System like Charisma, Intelligence, Constitution, Strength, Bust Size, etc. Those were for turn based RPGS and too me that puts too much complexity and takes away from the fun of the game. I like just having the Hit Point, Experience, and Skill Level system.

 

I plan to start up some work with Role Playing Games for both PC and Atari after I wrap up the remaining work for those 16K cartridge games.



#94 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:58 AM

I am getting back into this modifying this Role Playing Game engine recently. As some of you know, I am porting some of my stuff to also run from 5200 Cartridges 16K & 32K. Secretum Labyrinth Kings Gold set up is the closest thing to fit inside 32K with the help of inflate compression and applying some advance optimization of code and data. I left Kings Gold to be an open and free game to not only promote the cartridge and to show how the game engine works. But to also get feed back on ideals of how to improve future additions of the game.

 

I am experimenting with a new graphics format for the "floor" or the parts of the screen you can move around in that staggers the font character every few columns/rows instead of filling with whole screen with a character before drawing the walls. This makes the screen less crowded with pixels and reduces the flicker some may see of certain PAL set ups. However I am also focusing on modern HDTV and VGA monitor attachment devices that do things that only show every other frame or interlace the pixels when you try to do SuperIRG.

 

Secretum Labyrinth Kings Gold purposely did not include some advance optimization and it took up more memory space to deter some people from doing whatever. To fit inside 5200 32K, I am just re-applying some of those things. I may add some extra rooms, monsters, and items. Change the map around. To give people an incentive to buy the cartridge because all anyone will have to do now is download "Kings Gold", solve it once to know where everything is at. This may be another adventure game for this game series.


Edited by peteym5, Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:10 AM.


#95 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 9, 2017 8:37 AM

I finally decided to go public with this alternate technique for drawing the "Floor" inside the rooms for Secretum Labyrinth. I am using an altered version of Secretum Labyrinth Kings Gold for the demonstration. It is being used for the Atari 5200 cartridge currently in development and the next cartridge game for the 8-bit. It is intended to improve the appearance of the game on PAL/SECAM displays, or simulated HDTV displays running at 50hz. Some people reported that background (non-moving) graphics flickering was noticeable. The new pixel pattern is visible in many rooms. It alternates between two characters that just has 1 pixel lit up, so there will be the same number of pixels being changed between each from. Different spacing and color patterns are done in different rooms. Moving objects (sprites) may still flicker if move than 2 objects share the same vertical position as this is due to the limitation of the Atari 8-bit computer only having 4 players that are overlapped to make 2 multicolored players.

 

I am offering this update of "Secretum Labyrinth Kings Gold" freely to the community members in exchange for their support they have shown for my games and for their assistance for helping me improve my games. So please download this game and try it out.

 

This Adventure / Role Playing Game engine is something I intended to be an ongoing process and I would like to remain open about what I am doing so I can get some feed back. I am working on more stuff to do to get past certain points in the game, like answering riddles, exchanging items, or performing specific actions. There are many different computer based role playing games across many different platforms, but very few had been bought to the Atari 8-bit. I am aware of the Ultima series, Excalibur, Alternate Reality, Dungeon Hunt, and many others. Everybody has a different approach. I am also looking forward to Adventure II on the 8-bit.

 

The 5200 Cartridge will be a little more involved, I am adding more character attributes and more traps inside the rooms. I will also be looking to have more going on with the next cartridge game for the 8-bit. I am not going to go with the Advance Dungeon & Dragons character attribute system, like having Charisma, Constitution, Wisdom, etc. or make it into a turned based game. I like to keep the action going and fight the enemies with the joystick, more people think that is more fun. I am looking over many ideals for the next 8-bit cartridge to add more depth and make the adventure games more intense.

Attached Files


Edited by peteym5, Sat Sep 9, 2017 8:54 AM.


#96 Stormtrooper of Death OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:26 AM

Thank you very much , for this free update



#97 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:50 AM

To clear up any confusion. Laser Disk Media is referring to Compact Disc, DVD, and Blu-ray Disc. That other big laserdisc form was something that disappeared back in the 1980s along with Betamax video tapes. I know some people on here are retro with hardware and still may use some of those things. I was referring to what is used with modern computers.

Laser-disc, the big vinyl-sized analog format, support continued for it right up too until 2000-2001. The last U.S. release was Bring Out the Dead in 2000. The last Japanese release was Tokyo Raiders in 2001. All major studios supported the format until '98/99. I own a JVC laser-disc made in 1993. Laser-disc players were sold in the late 90's as well, many incorporating CD and DVD compatibility into them. Many of us fans stuck with Laser-disc even after DVD came out because early DVD's, even though technically have a higher resolution, used poor mastering techniques early on, while Laser disc had improved mastering techniques for 15-20 years and Laser-disc still looked sharper, and the analog color was still far superior to the color on DVD. (compared to early DVD's, not the ones coming out by the late 90's)

 

Oh, and thanks for the King's Gold update. If only it could have come out a few weeks earlier, I could have reviewed the updated version instead of the older version, for EXCEL magazine #5 (do out in a few weeks).


Edited by Gunstar, Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:59 AM.


#98 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:53 PM

What I remember is Laser Disk did not gain a foothold on the market along with Betamax. VHS became the standard from the late 70s till the early 2000s when it was surpassed by DVD. People like VCRs because they could record their favorite TV shows and keep them for later play back. I am really glad to talk about these other subjects about the recent history of technology. I remember my grandparents talking about not having televisions and the radio programs from the 1940s. How much things have changed in the last century and how much remains the same.

 

A bit of good news, I managed to free up some more space for the 5200 Secretum Labyrinth game so I can add a few extra features. I really want to make this an exciting game for the 5200 and still awaiting some feed back. I want to make something as fun and adventurous as Legend of Zelda. I cannot 100% copy it, or use its music after seeing what happened with "Princess Rescue" on the 2600. Nintendo rule on that is they are allowing parodies, as long as you are not making profit from it. So the programmer had to put it up as a free download. Secretum Labyrinth is very much unique, only borrowing minor elements that had been seen in many other games already. So only "Kings Gold" will be up for a free download. "The Legend", "Xenogenesis", and ("Dark Castles") not be a free or pay per download. The will be cartridge only. Like someone had already stated, no one owns the "Adventure" or "RPG" style game concept, but they can own names of characters, places, and music in the games and copyright that.



#99 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:03 PM

What I remember is Laser Disk did not gain a foothold on the market along with Betamax. VHS became the standard from the late 70s till the early 2000s when it was surpassed by DVD. People like VCRs because they could record their favorite TV shows and keep them for later play back. I am really glad to talk about these other subjects about the recent history of technology. I remember my grandparents talking about not having televisions and the radio programs from the 1940s. How much things have changed in the last century and how much remains the same.

 

 

I guess it depends on what you consider a "foothold." Obviously enough laserdisc units and movies continued to sell in the U.S. to keep them coming and improving until the late 90's from many of the top electronics houses and new releases from major studios until the late 90's. They weren't advertised in main-stream media or sold at the local department store, you had to go to high-end electronic shops, for machines and discs. And for audio/video files like myself, the much better image and audio over VHS and Betamax was more important than recording. Though I have always had top-notch VCR's too like my Sony S-VHS machine,  so could record. All rentals were on VHS, but if I wanted to own a movie, it was laser-disc. I do appreciate all tech, old and new. I always have the latest and best, but I still love my vintage electronics and enjoy using them still. of course with modern TV's and projectors that have built-in video up-scaling, the old media looks better than ever. And with my video2VGA external converter and upscaler, better yet!


Edited by Gunstar, Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:12 PM.


#100 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:15 PM

I was a person that recorded good movies in SP mode on VHS. Used EP for TV shows that had lots of episodes, or else you'll end up with a living room full of video tapes. Nowadays, we can fit several whole TV series on a single hard drive. VHS and Betamax used a half inch analog format. I am not sure if anyone used a digital format with video tapes. I know TV networks uses 3/4 to 2 inch wide tapes for a very high quality recording, to get beyond that, you might as well try to get the original movie on film. I admit DVD looks sharper than even a VHS at SP mode. Blu Ray may look better when you play back on larger displays, and still seems to have trouble gaining a majority market share. Looks like by the time everyone has a Blu-Ray player, someone will have something better. Maybe be a flash drive that plugs into your TV, or will be all streaming video services. I know many out there download video illegally through a bit-torrent website, and with that, a larger file may be chosen for better quality.  







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