Should I switch from IIe to IIgs? Questions...

[ianoid]

I've been thinking I would switch over to regular use of a IIgs. What are your thoughts about 'upgrading'?

 

Can I play my Apple II (non-gs) games on it without much hassle?

 

Is it easy to slow down games to appropriate speed for games?

 

Can IIgs boot 13 sector?

 

Are nearly all peripherals/cards forward compatible? Can I use Disk ][ drives?

 

Do Apple II copy programs work?

 

Do DOS 3.3 files, like single load games?

 

Does it catalog DOS 3.3 disks natively- or does it require a program?

 

Is it fun to use and worth the trouble of switching?

Edited November 4, 2014 by ianoid

[The Usotsuki]

I've been thinking I would switch over to regular use of a IIgs. What are your thoughts about 'upgrading'?

Can I play my Apple II (non-gs) games on it without much hassle?

Generally, yeah.

Is it easy to slow down games to appropriate speed for games?

There's a setting in Control Panel, or a POKE, that can do the job.

Can IIgs boot 13 sector?

Of course, you need BOOT13, same as on a //e.

Are nearly all peripherals/cards forward compatible? Can I use Disk ][ drives?

I think so. Yeah, but you need to go through some folderol; it's easier to just use the platinum drives.

Do Apple II copy programs work?

Most ought to. If they rely on the firmware being EXACTLY that of a Disk ][, you'll have to put in a controller card and disable the built-in one.

Do DOS 3.3 files, like single load games?

Mostly.

Does it catalog DOS 3.3 disks natively- or does it require a program?

The program it needs is, well, DOS 3.3.

Is it fun to use and worth the trouble of switching?

That's up to you.

[Bill Loguidice]

The only thing you really lose is the cassette port. Everything else can more or less be worked around in terms of compatibility.

[Hatta]

There are a few software incompatibilities between the IIe and IIgs. Here's an example:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/191905-questron-on-the-apple-iigs/

 

It is still fun to use and worth the trouble of switching, but keep the IIe around for those rare cases. The 16 bit side is surprisingly nice, and fun to play with in its own right. Especially if you have a 16 bit Mac too. The IIgs is highly recommended if you have a CFFA3000, the bundled Desktop Accessory even works in IIe mode.

[+save2600]

Functionality aside, do the aesthetics of the ][gs bug you at all? I've always liked the way it looks, but have absolutely zero nostalgia feelies for it. That might affect the way you feel when playing with original ][ software... I know it does me.

 

Prefer the breadbin C64 over the 64c, Amiga 1000/2000 over the 4000, woodgrain 2600 over Vader, Genesis 1 over the II, Intellivision, etc. Your mileage may vary!

[ianoid]

Doesn't it have fewer slots? I guess I will still need a Mockingboard compatible card, and a CFFA3000. But I guess I won't need a mouse or a disk card anymore.

 

Why do I need to upgrade the memory on the IIgs? I see the RAM cards widely available, but for my gaming, copying, messing around and regular stuff (non-productivity), why would I need more than stock RAM?

 

Is the Woz special edition worth chasing down to use aside from as a collector?

[Keatah]

Why do I need to upgrade the memory on the IIgs? I see the RAM cards widely available, but for my gaming, copying, messing around and regular stuff (non-productivity), why would I need more than stock RAM?

 

The expansion memory was/is important for gs applications. For the //e side of things the standard 128K should suffice for just about everything.

 

 

Is the Woz special edition worth chasing down to use aside from as a collector?

 

I don't know. I was told at one time the # of remaining "woz" units exceeded the # of non-woz units..thus making non-woz units more valuable. If you can assign a value to the IIgs. It's way too early for that. Just like the II+ and //e.

 

It's just the top cover that's different anyways. There aren't any operational differences.

[Bill Loguidice]

It's more important to have a ROM 01 IIGS than a ROM 03 IIGS for compatibility reasons, but really only if you're going to play IIGS software.

[MarkO]

Personally, I like the Wedge Look of the Apple ][ - Apple //e Platinum.. But I started on the Apple ][+, so I have a bias...

 

The 65816 in the ][gs, is a nice upgrade though.... As well as the Enhanced Graphic Modes and the Ensoniq Sound chip... And as mentioned above, Apple made the ][gs very backwards compatible..

 

MarkO

[Keatah]

It's really two separate computers, with two separate buses. Too bad you can't run GS and //e software concurrently.

[magnusfalkirk]

The GS is a very capable machine and with the backward compatibility it becomes a really good system. You can run regular Apple II games either at the regular 1MHz, by using the control panel to slow the GS down, or at the GS's "fast" 2.8MHz, which can make some of the older games a real challenge. Of course I've also got a //c+, which is capable of 4MHz, which makes some of the older games down right impossible!

[Arbee]

Doesn't it have fewer slots? I guess I will still need a Mockingboard compatible card, and a CFFA3000. But I guess I won't need a mouse or a disk card anymore.

 

Why do I need to upgrade the memory on the IIgs? I see the RAM cards widely available, but for my gaming, copying, messing around and regular stuff (non-productivity), why would I need more than stock RAM?

 

Is the Woz special edition worth chasing down to use aside from as a collector?

 

There are 7 slots, same as a IIe. All of them have 'built-in' uses on a IIgs but a CFFA3000 in slot 7 and a Mockingboard in 2 would work fine.

 

You need more than stock RAM to run any 16-bit software (including games) on a ROM 01. ROM 03 comes with a meg on board which runs a lot more software stock, but boosting the RAM is still not a terrible idea.

 

There's no special value to the Woz LEs unless you get warm fuzzies from seeing Woz's signature in front of you all the time (I kinda do).

[Hatta]

I'd recommend holding off on a RAM card until you have a specific use for it.

[Coleco]

What about an old mac LC with an Apple IIe compatibility card? You can play some old Mac games +old Apple II games. What I don't know is how well that compatibility card works with games for the Apple II and what the limitations are. I seem to remember there was a joystick port for it.

[Arbee]

The Mac LC IIe card uses a variant of the "Mega II" IIe-on-a-chip from the IIgs plus a real 65C02 CPU, so it's about as compatible as a IIgs in slow mode (which is pretty compatible!). I'd go with the highest-end LC it works with (I think some of the 68LC040 machines still worked with it) to maximize performance. Unlike the original Mega II, the LC card has no direct video out so the host Mac has to watch writes to the softswitches and RAM and draw the Apple II display, very much like how pure-software emulators like AppleWin work.

 

AFAIK the LC Card doesn't work in any PowerPC machines, so you'd be missing out on a fair number of classic Mac games that way.

[airsoftmodels]

When I first logged into the IRC channel a2c.chat on a2central, it seemed that everybody there had a IIgs! It made me want to buy one - although I never had one before, just to fit in. But then calmer heads prevailed. All my memories growing up are with the IIc/IIe. I realized that I knew next to nothing about the IIgs, and never played any native IIgs games. I decided to stay 8 bit with the IIe, and the 4000+ applications available for it. When I sit down to the IIe, everything I do is intuitive, based on 10 years of using it growing up (1984-1994). But, what decision did you make ianoid? Did you "upgrade" to the GS? How do you like it? Thanks.

[Muzz73]

I had a IIgs for years and loved it! I agree about the RAM card, though... I'd hold off on that until you figure out that you really need one.

 

I had a GS Juice 4MB RAM card that gave me an odd error once in a while. I had the card tested, the RAM tested separately and my motherboard tested and none were found to have any problems. Since there wasn't much in the way of IIgs software out there, anyway, I just pulled the RAM card out and ran it as a 256K IIe for several years.

 

It was great, because the IIgs used ADB (a year before the Mac did), so you could make it into a really slick enhanced IIe-type setup with a much nicer keyboard & mouse/trackball setup than you could get on a real IIe.

[Tempest]

People are looking into a way to get perfect composite output from the IIgs. This would fix those games that don't look quite right on the IIgs RGB monitor. Of course you'd have to use a Apple Composite monitor but that's not an issue for most.

 

I keep my IIe around simply because there are a small handful of games that don't look or work right on the IIgs. That list is pretty darn small though. I mostly keep it around due to nostalgia (I still have my original IIe) and laziness (I hate having to switch the speed in the control panel). Of course there are some games that actually benefit from the faster IIgs speed (mostly RPGs).

[Muzz73]

Oh yeah, I loved my real IIe better than my IIgs, for sure, I'm just trying to give ianoid options.

[ianoid]

Well, I think I'll set up a IIgs as soon as I have access to mine (storage). The main reason is that I want to run a PC Transporter, which seems to work way better on a IIgs. I think I have most of the pieces I need for that. Probably put in a Mockingboard and a CFFA3000.

 

I will have to give up the Z80 Softcard 80 column card I just grabbed for my IIe, but I might just keep the IIe up and running anyway. Actually, I would see more benefit to keeping a II+ setup because I do find a good deal of early copy protection schemes work only on II+'s- like for Sirius stuff, for example. Probably will still just run a IIe since they are cheap and easy to replace if I mess one up.

 

Now as far as RAM, I have a II RAM card with a meg. Could the IIgs use that? Do I need to get a specific IIgs memory card to get that going?

 

I have a 256K IIgs memory card- is it hard to buy RAM chips for those? Is it more cost effective to just go out and buy a 2 meg card?

 

And what is the point of having more than 1 meg? How does the IIgs utilize the extra memory? Is GSOS a multitasking OS? If not, why bother?

 

It sounds like getting more than 2 megs is of questionable utility, and was not officially supported. Any thoughts?

[Tempest]

Well, I think I'll set up a IIgs as soon as I have access to mine (storage). The main reason is that I want to run a PC Transporter, which seems to work way better on a IIgs. I think I have most of the pieces I need for that. Probably put in a Mockingboard and a CFFA3000.

 

I will have to give up the Z80 Softcard 80 column card I just grabbed for my IIe, but I might just keep the IIe up and running anyway. Actually, I would see more benefit to keeping a II+ setup because I do find a good deal of early copy protection schemes work only on II+'s- like for Sirius stuff, for example. Probably will still just run a IIe since they are cheap and easy to replace if I mess one up.

 

Now as far as RAM, I have a II RAM card with a meg. Could the IIgs use that? Do I need to get a specific IIgs memory card to get that going?

 

I have a 256K IIgs memory card- is it hard to buy RAM chips for those? Is it more cost effective to just go out and buy a 2 meg card?

 

And what is the point of having more than 1 meg? How does the IIgs utilize the extra memory? Is GSOS a multitasking OS? If not, why bother?

 

It sounds like getting more than 2 megs is of questionable utility, and was not officially supported. Any thoughts?

 

I don't suppose you'd be willing to trade that Transporter card would you? I've been looking for one for awhile now. You'll need the color switch card to use it in a IIgs though. I believe you also need special 5.25" drives.

 

I believe you need IIgs specific RAM cards. The standard 1 MB RAM card is only a few bucks though. It's the 4MB-8MB ones that are expensive (although not really anymore).

 

More memory is needed for running things like GS/OS 6.0.1 and some of the more memory intensive games like Wolfenstein 3D (I think that one needs 4MB AND an accelerator though). If you're just playing games I think a 1MB card + the onboard memory (1.25MB in a ROM 3 or 256K in the ROM 1) will be fine. I think the most memory normal games need is 1.25MB but like I said, you'll need at least that much to run things like GS/OS 6.0.1 smoothly.

 

I believe it's more than 4MB that was iffy. 4MB is more than you'll need.

[Muzz73]

IIRC, most IIgs games ran in 512K and up to 1MB, so if you had 1.25MB, you'd probably be fine if you ran GSOS 5. GSOS System 6 requires more resources, though.

 

Yes, the IIgs uses a specific RAM card that is not compatable with anything else.

 

And no, GSOS is not a multitasking OS. You'd have to use GNO/ME (UNIX for the GS), but you really shouldn't attempt that unless you have at least 4MB RAM, a hard drive and an accelerator.

[JamesD]

I had a 4MB board in my IIgs and quite honestly, I thought it worked better with the larger RAM than the standard RAM expansion board.

Just being able to use a RAM drive makes the extra RAM worth it if you do much with the machine.

If you just play games, I'm not sure it matters.

 

The CFFA and CFFA3000 are both a big improvement over floppies if you can find one.

The CFFA3000 is out of production until at least fall if I remember right.

[airsoftmodels]

5 months ago i posted my advice in this thread not to upgrade, now things have changed for me. i sold my IIe platnium to a very nice vintage computer collector, and i am considering a IIgs. my rational for not getting one before: knowing next to nothing about the IIgs, has now become the main reason for getting one. i am also considering an amiga 500 or an atari 520st. basically these are systems i never had, and i would like to immerse myself and learn a few things. any suggestions?

[Tempest]

A ROM 01 IIgs with at least 2MB of RAM and a SCSI card for a hard drive (or CCFA card if you can find one) will be about all you need for a IIgs setup. You want a way of using a HD so you can install System 6.0.1 as running it off disks is pretty pointless. If you want to splurge you can get an accelerator card as some games are much more playable with one, but it's not 100% necessary (and they're pretty pricey).

 

I believe the Amiga 500 is the best overall Amiga for game compatibility unless you really want to play AGA games in which case you'll need a 1200 or 4000. I use a 2000 myself.

 

You might want a 1040ST instead of the 520ST. I think some games needed the extra memory, but I might be wrong on that.