flashjazzcat Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Sounds like it's not returning the proper PERCOM info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 No, it probably isn't. This drive uses the same CPU as the XF551 and the code seems to have some of the same problems. The drive doesn't seem to use the PERCOM parms at all. The XF551 only uses DD or not DD, but that's better than "Hide The Density and Go Seek"! The disk spin-up parameter is too short. This makes the first format attempt fail. They extended the spin-up time on the XF551 but that made it too slow for a modern 3.5 drive. The sector skew seems to be wacky, but I didn't test this. It doesn't like to switch density to DD - same as the XF551. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Lol I forgot about that, having to do it twice so it would switch.... plink plink.. then plink machine gun staccato as it caught and fired up.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Does MyDOS work with it? MyDos works great on the XF551 3.5" converted drives. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I remember having to adjust track to 80 and the step rate plus or minus... was either 2 or 8 depending on the drive connected using the O key in mydos in order to go higher density on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 It didn't like DOSXE, who thought it was an 810... Didn't like SDX, either. DOS 2.0 and MyDOS were happy campers. The belt p/n is: AV-FBS9.9 DOS XE might need to be patched to work with the drive but I dout anyone is going to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 MyDOS will read/write/format OK. I get the feeling that the XF351 was built before the XF551 and that the XF551 is actually a modified XF351. Bob Does MyDOS work with it? MyDos works great on the XF551 3.5" converted drives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Something in my memory says there was word about the 3.5" drive before the (new) 5.25" BITD......so I wouldn't be surprised if that was true. Edited November 16, 2014 by Level42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) I take that the XF351 support formats 90k to 360k can it do a 720k format too? Edited November 16, 2014 by walter_J64bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 I couldn't get the XF351 to format in DD, so it is hard to say what it supports. In SD, it seems to format 1027 sectors - ? I'll dump the ROM and maybe someone can disassemble it? Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sup8pdct Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) DOS XE might need to be patched to work with the drive but I dout anyone is going to do that. Try my dos xe formatter. It is on this forum somewhere. Will need to be run from dos xe as it places parameters into dos xe itself for the drive type which you can name. James edit: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/154173-bored-so-i-did-this-part-2/?hl=%2Bdosxe&do=findComment&comment=1894629 is link to the formatter Edited November 16, 2014 by sup8pdct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 When I first got DOS XE I had to set the DOS up and have it reassemble itelf to use the XF and a few other drives... whatever I used was included with the DOS and I had to use the option select start keys during it's use... I will look to see if the entire DOS XE is here somewhere... I can't remember, but once it's in front of me it will come back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Hello guys Atari wanted to bring out the XF351, but software companies didn't want to support 3.5" disks for the Atari. So Atari turned the XF351 into the XF551. Wouldn't surprise me, if the changes (apart from the size of the case and the mechanism) are minimal. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterpiggle Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 That was very poor excuse for lazy companies, they were only looking for profit rather making 3.5 diskette ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Hello Caterpiggle At the time, the Atari 8 bit software market was shrinking. Supporting 3.5" and 5.25" drives/disks would have cost the software companies extra money. The Atari 8 bit marker was too small for that. Add to that that Tramiel Atari was only thinking in saving dollars, which might have had a negative influence on the relationship between Atari and at least some of the software houses and "not bringing the XF351 to market" doesn't sound as strange anymore. BTW Tramiel Atari probably wanted to bring out a 3.5" drive, because it would share lots of parts with the external ST drives. Which again would save lots of money. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterpiggle Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Pity. It would be extra nice to see cool design on Atari 8 bits 3.5 diskette software with labels ! Look at Commodore 8 bits 3.5 disk drives, Apple 8 bits 3.5 disk drives. So why not on Atari 8 bits , too ! Both did released many 3.5 diskette for both computers ! It make me jealously over those computers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocRotCod Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 If I were to purchase this, would SpartaDOS be able to work with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 That depends on how much you pay for it... No, I am kidding! SDX has a problem formatting the disk, which is usually a conflict between what the DOS expects the drive to be and what the drive thinks it is. SDX is able to read DOS 2.0 disks and such, but it may take some experimenting to get it to format correctly. If you want an everyday 3.5 drive, you should get an XF551 and convert it to 3.5. This works really well (and, it's a lot cheaper than using an XF351). Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocRotCod Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The drive is purely from a collectible standpoint for me. It's a piece of Atari history. I have some XF-551 drives but have not converted them to 3.5". Maybe a utility could be written to format the disk properly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 DOS 2.0 and MyDOS format it OK. SDX is looking for something that the XF351 does not provide. If we knew how SDX and the XF351 responded to SIO commands, we could probably make something work. I don't see any reason why you couldn't sector copy a formatted SDX 5.25 onto a 3.5 that has been formatted with DOS 2.0 Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 OK - so I played with the XF351 a little. SD3.2d will format a disk in SD. SDX will not (sounds like it is trying to run High Speed SIO even though I told him not to). Works fine on SD3.2d. It looks like the native mode for the XF351 is 127K, something like 1024 sectors with 128 bytes per sector. At least I can get that much data on a disk. Pretty cool. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sup8pdct Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Just a thought, maybe it has a single byte format command for different density's like single or enhanced for the 1050. Only a dissembley of the rom will show what is going on. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 The XF351 formats a SD disk at 1280 sectors, which is 16 sectors per track, 80 tracks. 160K in SD. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterpiggle Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Is possible for you to post ROM from XF351 here ? So that those people may figure out how to dissemble out ? Correct me that your EPROM reader can do the job ? Maybe there are the code how to format correctly , if they know how to read rom file. I thought XF351 can format up to 720 K but seems not possible ? I know it is prototype, unfinished fully developing stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) OK - so I played with the XF351 a little. SD3.2d will format a disk in SD. SDX will not (sounds like it is trying to run High Speed SIO even though I told him not to). Works fine on SD3.2d. It looks like the native mode for the XF351 is 127K, something like 1024 sectors with 128 bytes per sector. At least I can get that much data on a disk. Pretty cool. Bob In 3.2d. from memory, I had to run a program that modified 3.2 to allow high speed and get the XF to switch density, the resulting bootable dos did not like having drives moved as the modification hard coded a single drive number to work only with XF, moving drives around resulted in whatever non xf drive that took the slot assignment not working. That was my experience way back when. Edited November 17, 2014 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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