squale Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Hi, The Atari 800 XL was my first ever computer in 1983, so a lot of nostalgia now. I just bought one (second hand lol) PAL version which should have been sold in France because of the French caution sticker under the case. Btw it is not a SECAM one.. strange or there where some PAL sold in France ? I just cant remember if mine at the time was PAL or SECAM, too young My main goal is to run games and maybe some demos (but not necessary for the moment). I miss a video cable and a data device. What video cable and device should I buy (or build) to be ready to play ? My TV has SCART, S-video... Thanks !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Get ready for a flood of opinions on what "device" you should get. Check this thread if you want a head start: A8 Newbie Thread I can't comment on scart because I don't know that much about it. But the XL's need a minimum of 1 wire soldered to enable S-Vid. Composite output can be had immediately, and is pretty good on the XL's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I think SECAM machines were late on the scene and for a while you had to run PAL as monochrome, or add an external converter for color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squale Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Hehe.. yes please guys flood me with your ideas :-) As I understood it is better to have a PAL machine for the color palette ? The S-Video seems the good option then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) Hi, The Atari 800 XL was my first ever computer in 1983, so a lot of nostalgia now. I just bought one (second hand lol) PAL version which should have been sold in France because of the French caution sticker under the case. Btw it is not a SECAM one.. strange or there where some PAL sold in France ? I just cant remember if mine at the time was PAL or SECAM, too young My main goal is to run games and maybe some demos (but not necessary for the moment). I miss a video cable and a data device. What video cable and device should I buy (or build) to be ready to play ? My TV has SCART, S-video... Thanks !! The NEWBIE post has most everything, with the A8FAQ link. If you want, you can build your own SIO2PC device with a few parts. The hard part of the yourself SIO2PC is the RS232 and SIO cables. This device doesn't do USB, so if you don't have a PC serial (rs232) port, then no good. Maybe you could use a serial to USB adapter. SIO2PC.zip Edited November 19, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 The S-Video seems the good option then ? S-Video is an improvement over composite, but for most people's taste the XL's need a little help with the signal itself after it's enabled. It all depends on what makes you happy. I think it's good enough, although the XE's have better video out of the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmercer Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 My personal opinion... find a period monitor or more modern security monitor that works as is.There's just something special about playing on a period monitor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) Period monitors that have a decent dot pitch are golden, period monitors with larger dotch pitch suck and cause moire pattern blech!.... Period monitor or monitor class televisions had the wonderful affect of having slower phosphers allowing for less flicker and smoother looking graphics movement add that with persistance of vision and you have a first class look from your Atari. Too slow a phospher and you had glowing trails from stuff. Too fast flicker city. Generally a good dot pitch period monitor is the best. NEC made many composite color monitors with good dot pitch late in the game, even the 80 column software was legible and game play looked smooth, colors were correct... I am sure were many others, I don't know why so many go on about the brown commie monitors even their first luma chroma's had horrible dot pitch causing the aweful moire patterns Edited November 19, 2014 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) Hi, The Atari 800 XL was my first ever computer in 1983, so a lot of nostalgia now. I just bought one (second hand lol) PAL version which should have been sold in France because of the French caution sticker under the case. Btw it is not a SECAM one.. strange or there where some PAL sold in France ? I just cant remember if mine at the time was PAL or SECAM, too young My main goal is to run games and maybe some demos (but not necessary for the moment). I miss a video cable and a data device. What video cable and device should I buy (or build) to be ready to play ? My TV has SCART, S-video... Thanks !! If you intend to connect your Atari to a PC and you don't want to build the SIO2PC yourself, here's a comparison of commercially available solutions. They all connect to the PC via a USB interface, one of the vendors in the comparison (Atarimax) also sells a Serial port version. No prices are quoted as they may change but you can find them out by visiting website links. Edited November 19, 2014 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodByteXL Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 ...although the XE's have better video out of the box. Hm, just curious. On what do you base this statement? When looking at the screen from machines out of the box the XE series seems not to have the best result on a monitor or tv. It lacks colour intensitivity and produces stripes/bars with "oversharpened" characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 The NEWBIE post has most everything, with the A8FAQ link. If you want, you can build your own SIO2PC device with a few parts. The hard part of the yourself SIO2PC is the RS232 and SIO cables. This device doesn't do USB, so if you don't have a PC serial (rs232) port, then no good. Maybe you could use a serial to USB adapter. I tried my rs232-serial to USB cable I have from PC USB to Atarimax serial to SIO adapter. Neither APE nor ASPEQT software would work with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squale Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 If you intend to connect your Atari to a PC and you don't want to build the SIO2PC yourself, here's a comparison of commercially available solutions. They all connect to the PC via a USB interface, one of the vendors in the comparison (Atarimax) also sells a Serial port version. No prices are quoted as they may change but you can find them out by visiting website links. Ok I see, but isn't it easier to use a SIO2SD than connecting to a PC ? Is something like SIDE2 better than SIO2SD ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Hm, just curious. On what do you base this statement? When looking at the screen from machines out of the box the XE series seems not to have the best result on a monitor or tv. It lacks colour intensitivity and produces stripes/bars with "oversharpened" characters. I base it on having owned 4 or 5 of both XL's and XE's, using them with the monitors and televisions that I've owned, and not having the experiences you describe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodByteXL Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I base it on having owned 4 or 5 of both XL's and XE's, using them with the monitors and televisions that I've owned, and not having the experiences you describe. Hey, that's what I call luck . From the more than two dozend XE machines in PAL and NTSC I tested during the decades not one had a good video output and so I gave them away again except one 130XE. Though never having seen such a XE I was told they do exist. Hopefully, someday I'll be in luck too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Hey, that's what I call luck . Could be, but I have the feeling it's not. I also owned several other's back in the 80's, and they had good video output as well, and I was only using RF back then. From the more than two dozend XE machines in PAL and NTSC I tested during the decades not one had a good video output and so I gave them away again except one 130XE. Though never having seen such a XE I was told they do exist. Hopefully, someday I'll be in luck too. I did own one PAL 130XE, and I have to say that the video output on that was not as good as my NTSC machines. So if you're experience is more with PAL, then there may be something going on there. Anyway, as stated, none of the unmodded XL's I have are as good. The XE's have a sharper clearer picture, especially comparing S-Video, and I'm totally satisfied with the color saturation levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) Ok I see, but isn't it easier to use a SIO2SD than connecting to a PC ? Is something like SIDE2 better than SIO2SD ? Depends on what your needs are? For example, I always keep my Atari 8 bit on my desk where my PC is, so for me it is the simplest and most feature laden option. But if your Atari is mobile within the home or you simply don't want to connect it to a PC then your choice might be one of those other options. My second preference is the IDE+2 which is a PBI device and can store your files on a CF card or a real HD while giving you the ability to run SpartaDOS X on your Atari, it also allows you to access FAT formatted virtual disks (thanks to SDX crew and FJC's efforts) so that you can transfer atari files from your PC to the CF card (by removing the CF card from the interface and inserting it into your PC's card reader) and have them accessible (read-only) from your Atari. For someone like me who needs access to both the Atari and the PC simultaneously, there is no better option than an SIO2PC, your needs may be different as i mentioned above. In my opinion SIDE is only better than SIO2SD because it is faster (parallel port access instead of slower serial), but then again speed is also relative to your needs. SIO2PC and most other SIO type flash memory hardware can achieve (and I do use mine regularly at) ~ 125,000 bps which is roughly 6.5 times faster than your regular 810/1050 drive, given the size of an average atari 8 bit file this is a rocket compared to a floopy Edited November 20, 2014 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squale Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 Depends on what your needs are? For example, I always keep my Atari 8 bit on my desk where my PC is, so for me it is the simplest and most feature laden option. But if your Atari is mobile within the home or you simply don't want to connect it to a PC then your choice might be one of those other options. My second preference is the IDE+2 which is a PBI device and can store your files on a CF card or a real HD while giving you the ability to run SpartaDOS X on your Atari, it also allows you to access FAT formatted virtual disks (thanks to SDX crew and FJC's efforts) so that you can transfer atari files from your PC to the CF card (by removing the CF card from the interface and inserting it into your PC's card reader) and have them accessible (read-only) from your Atari. For someone like me who needs access to both the Atari and the PC simultaneously, there is no better option than an SIO2PC, your needs may be different as i mentioned above. In my opinion SIDE is only better than SIO2SD because it is faster (parallel port access instead of slower serial), but then again speed is also relative to your needs. SIO2PC and most other SIO type flash memory hardware can achieve (and I do use mine regularly at) ~ 125,000 bps which is roughly 6.5 times faster than your regular 810/1050 drive, given the size of an average atari 8 bit file this is a rocket compared to a floopy Thank you My Atari will stay near my PC too, why it is better to connect it to the PC than using SD device ? Is IDE+2 the same as SIDE2 ? Is it possible to run Cartridge games from SIO2PC ? Last one, what is the best video cable to use ? I saw websites selling them (s-vid version for me), are they all the same ? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) Thank you My Atari will stay near my PC too, why it is better to connect it to the PC than using SD device ? Is IDE+2 the same as SIDE2 ? Is it possible to run Cartridge games from SIO2PC ? Last one, what is the best video cable to use ? I saw websites selling them (s-vid version for me), are they all the same ? Cheers You can't attach a cartridge to a SIO2PC/APE interface. All cartridge games have been converted to binary load, which you keep on an .ATR for SIO2PC. I believe the 800XL has the separate chroma and lumina for S-video. I don't know which pins they are and most monitor cables are for composite. So you need to know the pins and what lines the monitor cable has outputs for. You aren't going to get a S-video plug on any five pin din cable, I think. Edited November 21, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 You can't attach a cartridge to a SIO2PC/APE interface. All cartridge games have been converted to binary load, which you keep on an .ATR for SIO2PC. Note: Some cartridge games require extra memory when they get converted (128K - 320K). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kogden Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) Thank you My Atari will stay near my PC too, why it is better to connect it to the PC than using SD device ? Is IDE+2 the same as SIDE2 ? Is it possible to run Cartridge games from SIO2PC ? Last one, what is the best video cable to use ? I saw websites selling them (s-vid version for me), are they all the same ? Cheers -SIO2SD is a good device. SIO2PC allows your PC to emulate Atari floppies, tapes and other SIO peripherals like printers or "Internet Modem" functionality. There's advantages to having both. If you can solder 4 wires, you can build an SIO2PC for $10 or so. -IDEPlus 2 uses the expansion bus like a proper disk controller, SIDE2 requires Ultimate 1MB to operate as a proper controller instead of a MyIDE-style hack. -As for cart games, no. You can play them in an emulator or burn them to a real cart. Or build the FPGA Atari 8-bit clone. -As for video cables, I'd get a decent set with S-Video just in case you upgrade the machine to be S-Video capable later. On the 800XL, chroma was not wired to jack so you're stuck with composite color or sharp B&W image until you install a resistor or do a more thorough video mod. Personally, my primary Atari rig is: Atari 800XL -576K RAM expansion -Atari "Happy" 1050 floppy drive -IDEPlus 2.0 Rev D -Single-chip homemade SIO2PC interface -Atari 850 serial/parallel interface w/ iPocket232 serial<->ethernet -LowBudget's S-Video upgrade board I have a couple others but this is the one that lives on the desk. About the only thing it can't do is run the really cool PAL demos. Edited November 22, 2014 by kogden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squale Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 I am in the process of buying something to run games ,are all games compatible with sio2usb ? For example is it possible to run Star Raiders with it ? My point is only to run games at low cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) I am in the process of buying something to run games ,are all games compatible with sio2usb ? For example is it possible to run Star Raiders with it ? My point is only to run games at low cost. SIO2USB is a disk drive emulator. You can load a 16 megabyte .ATR into it and run 1000s of games, including Star Raiders. I can't think of a game that hasn't been made for binary load. There are four 16 meg .ATRs here in AA that have about 3000 games, you can load all of them with SIO2USB. There may be some games that haven't been modified to run from a disk image. Bounty Bob Strikes Back is a large game, but I think it is available. A few games may require 128k Atari computer. Some games may require a translator disk for 800 OS B compatibility. Edited December 31, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squale Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) SIO2USB is a disk drive emulator. You can load a 16 megabyte .ATR into it and run 1000s of games, including Star Raiders. I can't think of a game that hasn't been made for binary load. There are four 16 meg .ATRs here in AA that have about 3000 games, you can load all of them with SIO2USB. There may be some games that haven't been modified to run from a disk image. Bounty Bob Strikes Back is a large game, but I think it is available. A few games may require 128k Atari computer. Some games may require a translator disk for 800 OS B compatibility. Thank you ! What are these 16mb .ATR files you talking about ? Is an SIO2SD give the same results ? Edited December 31, 2014 by squale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Thank you ! What are these 16mb .ATR files you talking about ? Is an SIO2SD give the same results ? http://atariage.com/forums/topic/187482-4-atari-16mb-hard-disk-images-completed/?hl=%2Bdisk1.atr SIO2SD is a different device than SIO2USB. It allows plugging an SD (Sandisk) into your SIO port. You can put gobs (gigabytes) of stuff on it. I think it requires a special Atari OS, unlike SIO2USB. There has to be some fancy DOS and OS to access over 16 mb. I'm not familiar with SIO2SD. I'm not sure where you would get it. SIO2USB, and the needed PC APE or ASPEQT software are available from Atarimax.com and atari8warez.com (APE and ASPEQT respectively). I'm not sure I'm giving atari8warez correctly. There's also Lotharek, I think where SIO2SD device is. http://www.lotharek.pl Edited December 31, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelmischief Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) I never understood why anyone used SIO2PC when SIO2SD is so easy and a disconnected, self-contained solution. With SIO2USB you have to run some software on your PC to serve the disk image. But with SIO2SD, you just pop an SD card with a bunch of ATR's into it and bang-o. Games. All of that said, the ultimate solution for me has been the MyIDE-II. Pop in a cart. Select an image. Pow. Games. Edited December 31, 2014 by pixelmischief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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