wyerd Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I messaged Zach on eBay who is selling the NOS PEBs to see if he'd reduce the price for a returning customer. I thought it was worth a try as I'd killed mine. Anyway this was his response:- "i am sorry but i cannot. i am running out of these and have many out on rent to Halt and Catch Fire TV show. sorry.....Zach" So look out for some shiny new old stock PEBs on the next series which I think will be out April/May time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeBo Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Halt and Catch Fire had a lot to do with me getting back into the TI... The episode that did it included a management meeting in which character Donna Clark (Kerry Bishé) suggests that the 99/4A be discontinued rather than spending any more on the power supply problem for a system that was bleeding money. I watched that scene and realized I was watching a recreation of a corporate decision that effected me on a very personal level 30 years prior. I already loved the show (let's face it, it was created with 80's tech enthusiasts as its primary audience), but at that moment, I had never had a TV series speak to me so personally as H&CF did in that one scene. Sounds silly, but I actually got choked up watching the rug get pulled out from under my early adulthood's prized posession. It was that moment where I knew I had to rebuild a TI system as complete as I once owned. Just couldn't lose her a second time. Edited January 18, 2015 by PeBo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeBo Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I messaged Zach on eBay who is selling the NOS PEBs to see if he'd reduce the price for a returning customer. I thought it was worth a try as I'd killed mine. Anyway this was his response:- "i am sorry but i cannot. i am running out of these and have many out on rent to Halt and Catch Fire TV show. sorry.....Zach" So look out for some shiny new old stock PEBs on the next series which I think will be out April/May time. So the ones he rented out to the show are now "Used New Old Stock", so shouldn't they have a discount attached? (and how can he be "running out" if he only rented them to the production??) Gotta love Zach! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Halt and Catch Fire had a lot to do with me getting back into the TI... The episode that did it included a management meeting in which character Donna Clark (Kerry Bishé) suggests that the 99/4A be discontinued rather than spending any more on the power supply problem for a system that was bleeding money. I've not seen the series, but I would not mind watching a clip of that scene... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 So the ones he rented out to the show are now "Used New Old Stock", so shouldn't they have a discount attached? (and how can he be "running out" if he only rented them to the production??) Gotta love Zach! Maybe he'll charge more for these in the future as... "As seen on TV"! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) The biggest problem with the prices of items from that old Dhein's True Value Hardware Store hoard is that the prices have been on a constant upward spiral--even though the likelihood of them selling at those higher prices decreases significantly. The current prices for the NIB cartridges is already well abaove what anyone is willing to pay (and the same goes for the Scott Adams QuestProbe titles). When they first arrived on the scene, some of them were considered to be rare--and the prices realized for the first couple were high. That isn't the market price though, as once two or three of them are in the wild, the really hard-core collectors have them and no one else is willing to pay the elevated price. The PEBs were a right-priced deal at $89 each. The current price is approaching the point where buying a used one with cards in it is a better deal. Edited January 18, 2015 by Ksarul 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeBo Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I've not seen the series, but I would not mind watching a clip of that scene... It is episode 107 and the scene takes place at 00:12:54 Save you some time here's the script from the scene (try not to cry)... Texas Instruments board room HUNT WHITMARSH: "...with only 256 bytes of Ram in the register we have a bottleneck that sets off a 4 cycle wait-to-clear everytime we load it - plus a power regulator that get so hot that our users refer to it as the coffee cup warmer." TI EXECUTIVE: "You're listing off a lot of problems, and a lot of problems means a lot of money for fixes. We need assurances that fixing these will solve the computer's flaws once and for all..." DONNA CLARK: "Well, they won't! I'm sorry but there are no once and for all fixes for the 99. If you want to do the right thing, you drop it from our product line for good." Camera pans around room. A look of shock can be seen around the table as the room falls silent. HUNT WHITMARSH: "She's right! I mean what are we gonna do, slash prices again? Hand out another rebate? We're practically giving it away already. If you ask me, we get out of the PC market altogether." CUT/Fade to executives shaking hands and clearing room. Donna Clark is packing her briefcase as Hunt Whitmarsh walks back into the room. DONNA CLARK: "I am so sorry I didn't mean to jump in on you like that..." HUNT WHITMARSH: "...Donna, we've been toying with dropping the 99 for months, everyone is just too scared to say it out loud except for you. If you hadn't said that, they never would have heard the truth. That took guts" DONNA CLARK: "I thought it took stupidity" HUNT WHITMARSH: "Will you please just take the credit!? Now I say we meet downstairs for dinner - on the company's credit card - and we celebrate a job well done" So now you know. A ficticious TI engineer called Donna Clark is who killed the 4A! (Biotch!) Seriously though, find season one, and watch it. For folks with our hobby, it's must-see television as it looks at the computer industry in the early to mid 80's through the eyes of a ficticious computer company called Cardiff Electric, and is a major labour of love for the creators. Edited January 18, 2015 by PeBo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 So now you know. A ficticious TI engineer called Donna Clark is who killed the 4A! (Biotch!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeBo Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 The PEBs were a right-priced deal at $89 each. The current price is approaching the point where buying a used one with cards in it is a better deal. But we are talking ebay. I've been lucky post christmas, as most auctions have had few or no bidders, but generally speaking the only time I get a deal on ebay is when I move the transaction OFF ebay (and ridiculous fees have more and more folks willing to do off-the-books trades). But you are 100% correct, I got my PEB for $105 US with a 32K card, two half-height double-sided drives w/TI Controller, and the firehose/interface card. Plus it was a Canadian purchase, so even with all thast weight, it only cost me $27 US to ship it. I'd also wager the quality is only slightly less that the NIB's being sold. What are Zach's right now? $177 empty? I even asked him if he'd cut me a deal if I also bought a controller and drive off of him (which he sells separately) and he still refused saying that the prices were based on the limited quantities. But at least Zach is honest enough to sell everything as "Buy Now", and updates "remaining quantity" with every sale. You know exactly how much he wants, and how "urgent" it might be to buy it as his quantities dwindle. He doesn't hide inflated prices behind an auction that raises prices through fear of missing out. I will say though, he is slow to lower prices on items that are not moving (so much for supply/demand based pricing). He's had the same number of Navarone cartridge expanders for months now, and the price hasn't budged! Meanwhile several have sold for less by other sellers and he remains unfazed. I actually kindof admire his tenacity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Note also that there are two sellers selling items from this hoard: the other is fiftiesfanfromiowa. Sometimes his prices are right--and sometimes they are closer to Zach's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Okay, I found the scene at 8:23 of this TI-99/4A video podcast... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbRcoXZpNxA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I am not so upset about cancelling the 99/4A any more than I am about finally killing off the Commodore 64. I am, however, interested in who made the decision to kill the 99/8, at the same level I am upset about the death of the Commodore 65 and the AAA-powered Amigas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conmee Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I bought a PEB and a floppy drive and some other NOS from Zach. I'm not too price sensitive (shorting Tesla this month covered my eBay purchases lol ), so I wasn't concerned about market value. And it was a bit of a thrill to open all the NOS stuff up like it was 1982-1983 all over again. Like PeBo, I too was somehow bit by the TI bug recently and brought my system out of storage/retirement... With the exception of the p-Code card, I have all the hardware (including Thermal Printer and Coupler Modem) that I had when I was a kid... I even picked up a NOS STX-80 printer mainly to print out Assembly and BASIC listings. It now smells faintly like a new system lol. Anyhow, waiting on a couple more pieces and setting up a corner of the home office with the fully operational TI in the next week, photos forthcoming. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeBo Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I am not so upset about cancelling the 99/4A any more than I am about finally killing off the Commodore 64. I am, however, interested in who made the decision to kill the 99/8, at the same level I am upset about the death of the Commodore 65 and the AAA-powered Amigas. I still shake my head at the Tramiels killing the Atari Computer division just as the Falcon 030 was hitting stores. I mean I get it from a business perspective, but I can't help feeling bad for the designers and engineers who poor their hearts and souls into putting together a system. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I still shake my head at the Tramiels killing the Atari Computer division just as the Falcon 030 was hitting stores. I mean I get it from a business perspective, but I can't help feeling bad for the designers and engineers who poor their hearts and souls into putting together a system. Then there is the idiot who decided not to OEM Amiga computers for Sun's SunOS 68k workstations. Ugh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I am not so upset about cancelling the 99/4A any more than I am about finally killing off the Commodore 64. I am, however, interested in who made the decision to kill the 99/8 It was all the same decision. I don't recall ever hearing that hardware problems were a driving reason for it in the past, though. But whatever the reason, TI was bleeding money left and right, they couldn't price match Commodore, and there were (depending on the story) anywhere from 4 to 8 new computers in the pipeline. All that said, the story is that it did happen in a single meeting, the entire computer division was cut, all the projects were cancelled, and the salesmen were called home. In retrospect - probably the right decision. Texas Instruments is not only still around today but thriving. Are any of the others even still in business? (Not counting names being sold and adopted by new companies like Atari and Commodore - that counts as end of the road for this question. ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 It was all the same decision. I don't recall ever hearing that hardware problems were a driving reason for it in the past, though. But whatever the reason, TI was bleeding money left and right, they couldn't price match Commodore, and there were (depending on the story) anywhere from 4 to 8 new computers in the pipeline. All that said, the story is that it did happen in a single meeting, the entire computer division was cut, all the projects were cancelled, and the salesmen were called home. In retrospect - probably the right decision. Texas Instruments is not only still around today but thriving. Are any of the others even still in business? (Not counting names being sold and adopted by new companies like Atari and Commodore - that counts as end of the road for this question. ) Yeah the TV show clip is not right. There was a business meeting over the 99/4 (notice no 'a') power supply issue, but it was NOT the end of the TI home computer division that happen a few years later. The power supply meeting was due to the wall transformer, when the TI99 first shipped, it shipped with a big heavy plug that went into the AC wall directly, it was so heavy it even had a little plastic tab at the top, where you were told to take out the screw out holding the wallplate on then plug the big box in, and put the longer screw in to hold the transformer to the wall. Well it didn't work out, alot of people didn't read the manual with the heavy transformer, so there was few house fires, insurance companies blamed the 99/4 transformer as the cause, so then they sued TI over it, and in the end the govt. ordered TI to recall the old transformers, and issue a new design with the long cord to all the owners of it, which costed the TI company a bunch of cash and writedowns. In the end development continue on after the meeting the /a was designed and more projects were funded, the final can of worms that killed it all came a few years later and it was mainly a money issue they could not keep cutting the price of the /4a to sell it anymore, commorade was slashing the price non-stop month after month, but they could not slash the price any more, and run-away costs for the new 99/8 design was factor also, management just didn't want to keep funding /8 development while they were loosing a ton over selling the /4a very below actual cost already, they were worried the same fate would happen with the /8 too keep cutting the retail price and not making any profit. The power supply issue was one reason, but it was not the big final nail that caused the whole Home Computer Division to be closed down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The issue I remember with the power supply was the EXTENSION that they sent to so many of the people with the floor transformers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The issue I remember with the power supply was the EXTENSION that they sent to so many of the people with the floor transformers. That was the second issue. The first the big wall transforms, then the issue the floor one, but it had no 'extension' which contains a approved 'fuse' then they had to mail out that extension to all those that got the floor transformer to replace the wall transformers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 What? Reality inaccurately represented in a video production?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeBo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I would hope that folks would realize that fiction is fiction (thus the joke about a fictitious character killing the 4A). What was cool about the scene was the fact that the 99's demise was mentioned at all, and although the reasons stated were not actual reasons for the corporate decision (closer to an oversimplification of decisions that would have been made over several months), they were at least REAL problems with the machine. Not exactly a topic you usually see in prime time fiction! I think the "reality" of the scene was contained in the single line by the TI Executive (who looked hauntingly similar to then Chairman Mark Sheppard Jr) "...and a lot of problems means a lot of money for fixes..." Looked at as an amalgam summary of the decisions made in 84, that about sums it up. As far as whether or not it was the right move, well without the benefit of following that alternative timeline to it's conclusion, who knows. OS standardization was coming within a few years, and independant systems were all headed towards the history books where they reside today. TI was a semiconductor company, they were never going to have the creative engineering or marketing prowess to be an Apple. Had they remained in the PC business, they would have likely gone on to create non-distinct and boring IBM-Clones. From there they could have become a Compaq or an HP, or simply have done as they did, and returned to their successful business model. I'm just happy that I was the right age to have not only experienced their unique take on a "Home Computer", but also to make use of today's modern telecommunications tools which have allowed me to find/purchase the components to revisit the heyday of consumer tech (without ever leaving my desk). But really peeps, in a world where "documentaries" (note the quotation marks) are made by the likes of Michael Moore, I think we all know that scenes from an entertainment source are rarely historically acurate representations of fact! Edited January 21, 2015 by PeBo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyerd Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Just remembered that when I asked if they (the producers) took any other TI stuff, he replied "A semi load full of items. Rented for 6 months". So look out for episodes full of TI kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 "A semi load full of items..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeBo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 A semi load??? Just how much of a haul was the True Value find anyway?? I returned to the community long after it happened, and while I knew about it through Zach's ads, I had no idea how big the find of TI stuff was. How does a find this large not effect resale value? This must have been a massive influx of new/old stock hitting a relatively small market. I don't fault Zach for selling his stuff for whatever he can get (posession is 9/10th and all that), and a 30 year old "new" anything IS worth a bit of a premium, just sad that the buyers (the folks who REALLY control the price) didn't simply hold off until prices fell. I guess the opportunity to buy a brand new PEB (and various other bits of coolness) was just too much of a must-buy to wait and see. Then again, $98 (which someone said was the original price) WAS an excellent price... $177 with no more than the interface card and firehose is pushing it. (Exchange rate, import fees and shipping would have made it a $300+ purchase for me.) But there are a few sales for some dubious-quality used PEBs going for over $350. Hopefully at that price, they won't sell. (Or maybe I just don't "Get" the collectibles market) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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