goldenegg Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) I have no idea how you're prioritizing the 7800, a system with an estimated 3.8M units sold, higher than the NES (estimated 61M units) and Sega Genesis (estimated 40M units). There's a reason why the same systems continue to be targeted, because there's a much larger potential user base to sell to. Edited January 26, 2015 by goldenegg 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 And like Is650 said No Atari support. Pre SMS, NES, 7800 non support I can understand, but the Atari 7800 an American product, should have been included FIRST. But all these idiotic makers are knowing is NES, SNS and (sometimes) Genesis. HUGE FAIL of a product. It's the same with the Universal Game Case, another idiotic American product only catering for SNES, N64, Genesis. I feel sorry for Americans letting this happen. Nonsense. It's what makes the most business sense that drives these products, and that's post-Crash systems. If there was a viable market, I'm sure Hyperkin would make a pre-Crash version of the RetroN. They don't believe there is, so they're not. I would LOVE to see them take a chance, but frankly with how people react to the RetroN 5, which is a pretty extraordinary offering, I don't see why they should. After all, let's say they created a RetroN that supported the 2600, 7800, and ColecoVision. People similar to you would scream bloody murder if it didn't support, say, Intellivision or the Odyssey2, and declare it a "fail." It's really frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenegg Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 It's what makes the most business sense that drives these products I think one of the major disconnects is that many people who are invested in this hobby are used to having homebrew products made for a limited audience. The rationale used by a homebrewer to release a product is very different than that of a company who must keep profits in mind. The scale of release is drastically different in each scenario and a wide release product needs to focus on the lowest common denominator, which tend to be the systems which are continually targeted. Fact is, Hyperkin already went further than other similar systems by providing GB/GBC/GBA support in the RetroN 5. As you said, there will always be those who'll complain their favourite system was ignored. You can't please everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I have one and it is great. Main points of interest for me... 1 - HDMI This is huge as I only have one TV left in my house that actually uses A/V cables anymore and the only reason I have it is for classic games 2 - Wireless controllers Wireless controllers that actually WORK for classic systems is a HUGE plus, no batteries needed, very cool 3 - famicom/super famicom/megadrive support As someone who owns all these systems or adaptors to play the games it is a HUGE plus being able to have them all in one unit 4 - Game save states It can hold your current game, a very very big plus for NES/etc.. that didn't have save areas very often (or at all!!) 5 - Ability to use classic controllers Some games just don't feel right without them, nice plus to be able to use them The only real thing stopping me from having this be my main system is Homebrews do not work. A pre crash all in one system? lol, yeah right guys... I would be the first in line but it would never sell enough units. For those of you looking for a nice all in one that plays imports and will actually hook up to your TV this is your system. I picked one up for $120 shipped and it's well worth the dinero ") 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 If the claims in one of the posts here are true, and it's using ripped-off copies of existing emulators (perhaps under the premise that "if it's on the Internet it must be PD"), then that's a different story from the complaints in the other posts. Just because the source is available doesn't mean you're free to do whatever you want with it (especially if it's under something like a GPL license). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (if you're buying something like this you wouldn't own the real systems, after all...) Gonna disagree with you here. I own all but three of the consoles the R5 supports, with ample cartridges, controllers, and accessories for each. To be able have that all accessible on one console -- and with all the bells and whistles detailed in above posts -- rather than having to fish out and hook up different systems each time I want to play a different one is very appealing to me. I'm not saying it would replace all my other old systems -- I still need them for lightgun games and homebrews and whatnot, and there's nothing quite like an original console on a good old CRT -- but rather it would give me a more convenient and modern way to use them. The Retron 5's pros definitely outweigh its cons for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 If the claims in one of the posts here are true, and it's using ripped-off copies of existing emulators (perhaps under the premise that "if it's on the Internet it must be PD"), then that's a different story from the complaints in the other posts. They are using code in violation of license that specifically prohibits things (like tivoization or commercialization) It's a shitty and incredibly shady thing to do. It's a shame because the unit is pretty handy, the controller ports are nice and so is loading roms from SD (after running them through IPS or similar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 They are using code in violation of license that specifically prohibits things (like tivoization or commercialization) It's a shitty and incredibly shady thing to do. It's a shame because the unit is pretty handy, the controller ports are nice and so is loading roms from SD (after running them through IPS or similar) Shady isn't the word I'd use, but rather, illegal. If it's GPL3 (as you seem to be implying) maybe they can sic the GNU legal beagles on the Retron guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenegg Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Shady isn't the word I'd use, but rather, illegal. If it's GPL3 (as you seem to be implying) maybe they can sic the GNU legal beagles on the Retron guys? You can read about he licensing issues here: http://www.libretro.com/index.php/retroarch-license-violations/ http://www.libretro.com/index.php/hyperkins-retron5-continuing-licensing-problems/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 If the claims in one of the posts here are true, and it's using ripped-off copies of existing emulators (perhaps under the premise that "if it's on the Internet it must be PD"), then that's a different story from the complaints in the other posts. Just because the source is available doesn't mean you're free to do whatever you want with it (especially if it's under something like a GPL license). Don't companies often do this purposely though (use existing programs/etc..), knowing that the profit will still outweigh any fines/lawsuits/etc I was under the impression it;s easier to just "do it" then pay the lawsuits after rather than trying to get permission from whoever the hell owns all of them and end up with a project that is permenantly on hold. I guess There is always the chance they don't care also I could be wrong but I thought companies do stuff like that all the time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Nonsense. It's what makes the most business sense that drives these products, and that's post-Crash systems. If there was a viable market, I'm sure Hyperkin would make a pre-Crash version of the RetroN. They don't believe there is, so they're not. I would LOVE to see them take a chance, but frankly with how people react to the RetroN 5, which is a pretty extraordinary offering, I don't see why they should. After all, let's say they created a RetroN that supported the 2600, 7800, and ColecoVision. People similar to you would scream bloody murder if it didn't support, say, Intellivision or the Odyssey2, and declare it a "fail." It's really frustrating. Technically... I don't see how it would necessarily be impossible to do such a feat, even WITH what they have right now. All they need is an external add-on... maybe even just a hook-up to one of the existing cartridge slots that supports 2600 and 7800 games. They could easily just flash a new emulator on there to support it. Probably wouldn't be too much more expensive... maybe charge another $100 bucks, and the reflash would be specific to those with the external component... would be pretty cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynicaster Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Seems cool to me, although I don't have enough of a cartridge collection to justify it. I think PC emulation with real controllers through USB adaptors is where it's at for me, as far as "convenience solutions" go. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cncfreak Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 One of the draws for me is to start collecting JRPGS and using the SD card to put translation patches on it and let the system translate the games for you. Also being able to transfer the saves from GB/GBC/GBA games, switching out the battery and then transferring them back is a big plus as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamemoose Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Based on what I've read and heard, Tanrunomad is right on the spot above. The Retron 5 supposedly uses the ROM as a key or checksum to verify it is a legitimate game, then plays the corresponding emulated ROM dump. This means that hacks, unlicensed games and homebrews won't play, and a small amount of legit games as well, versions that the device doesn't recognize. I believe this is exactly for licensing purposes they have that limitation, to prevent the device being used for various forms of piracy (for a broad meaning of the word in which unlicensed homebrews are included). ... but as indicated by videos above, there may be ways to hack around that limitation, just like you can jailbreak your smartphone etc. No, it must do a ROM dump. I have a homebrew cart of Dream Penguin Adventure and it reads it as "unknown" but it does kinda work with wonky graphics and glitches. If the Retron had to "look up" a ROM, then technically it wouldn't play. I also played my Metroid: Zero Mission cart and it came up unknown. It played but the sound was all bad-screeching in fact. I pulled the cart, cleaned it and it came up fine. If it didn't know what it was initially then why did it play but with bad sound and then be identified and work after a cleaning? It dumps plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 It does try to recognize ROMs, presumably to do things like make sure the right emulator is started, apply any specific settings that might be needed by the emu, identify cheats etc. It's nothing to do with 'preventing piracy' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wongojack Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Seems cool to me, although I don't have enough of a cartridge collection to justify it. I think PC emulation with real controllers through USB adaptors is where it's at for me, as far as "convenience solutions" go. This /\/\/\ If it ever drops to the $59 range then I might go for it. I'll add that if I did invest in buying the carts, I would probably have to WORK to avoid buying the systems. After that, it all sounds like a bunch of work AND a lot of new junk. I'd rather put the time into downloading some emulators and actually playing the games. All of those save state options and translation packs are already on the PC, and I think it would probably be harder to do that stuff with this device. One opinion that I didn't see in this thread is that I think for someone who really is not OK with the legalities of emulation then this is a good option. However, the device IS emulation (and allegedly uses stolen emulators). Someone OK with these things would probably also be OK with the old argument that if I own the cart, I can play the ROM (on my PC). Edit: removed some uncertainty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 the device IS emulation (and allegedly uses stolen emulators) It's not allegedly, it is most assuredly illegally using code they do not own in flagrant violation of licensing. This is the thing that in good conscience stops me from recommending the system to people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philyso Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 You don't even need to be a filthy hacker to figure it out. They were pressured by these allegations and published the sourcecode of the emulators they use right there on their official website: http://retron5.in/node/9 They obviously try to make it like they are respecting original software licenses but if you download that zip and look into it, you will see every source files in the snes9x-next folder have a mention that "it cannot be used for commercial purpose", which is the original snes9x license. They probably did not even read the sourcecode and do not care about those license anyways since none of the original copyright owners can do much to enforce them but the proof is right there for anyone that (really) care about this. Unfortunately, I don't think many people who bought this care much about Hyperkin making huge profits from other people's free emulation work and research, they probably think it's a fair price for being able to replay their cartridge collection on modern TVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Have the owners of the copyrights come forward saying they do not support this? I'm probably not going to stop using my Retron 5 but before I even thought about it I would like to see something they have said. If the owners are not even going to bother to take a stance then why should I? Some "dude" on a forum telling me it is wrong and the ACTUAL owner telling me it's wrong are two totally different animals if you know what I mean, lol I get they probably can't afford lawyers/etc but have they publically said that or said anything at all anywhere that opposes this machine? If not then I am taking it as they don't really care... *I am talking about the people who actually own this work by the way, not just people who believe it's wrong to use it* I remember this same thing happened with the neo geo handheld thing by Tommo but I just heard angry fans complaining and not the actual owners of the emulators/etc... Just curious here, I'm not supporting or defending anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Uh the licensing violations have been quite clear for a while. http://www.libretro.com/index.php/retroarch-license-violations/ Hyperkin has admitted the uses which are in direct conflict of licenses (i.e. the authors direct stated wishes) in the cases noted. Fucking over the authors who make the awesome emulation we've been enjoying today and for some time just because they likely won't have the resources to react and stop the illegal violation is not cool... It's that simple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenegg Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I remember this same thing happened with the neo geo handheld thing by Tommo but I just heard angry fans complaining and not the actual owners of the emulators/etc... Then you just weren't reading the proper sources or skimming the posts (as you must have done here, as I linked to the developer's response in post 34) , as the FBA author was fairly vocal about the Neo Geo X. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Uh the licensing violations have been quite clear for a while. http://www.libretro.com/index.php/retroarch-license-violations/ Hyperkin has admitted the uses which are in direct conflict of licenses (i.e. the authors direct stated wishes) in the cases noted. Fucking over the authors who make the awesome emulation we've been enjoying today and for some time just because they likely won't have the resources to react and stop the illegal violation is not cool... It's that simple. Then you just weren't reading the proper sources or skimming the posts (as you must have done here, as I linked to the developer's response in post 34) , as the FBA author was fairly vocal about the Neo Geo X. Ah ok, it is the same as the Tommo thing. Basically I was under the impression whoever made these emulation programs had their own "console" they were either releasing or have already released and the retron 5 was ripping off their programs and directly "stealing" money they would have made on their own product. From what I read though it's just something about the emulation programs were used without permission but they had no intention of releasing a similar product/etc.. so no actual "money" is being stolen it's more of a "retron 5 broke the laws of emulaters" kind of thing, I respect that....but.... I only understand this is illegal because thats what I read people saying but it's still far too confusing for me personally to pass any judgement on anyone. I don't know what goes into these things or who gets what from where and I just don't know the legalities of it other than what people tell me, lol. Quite a bit of the stuff on the links I read is like space talk man, I don't know how emulaters work So they don't want anyone playing/purchasing the retron 5 but they are not making another option and they do not care about money so I'm a little confused...and what does that mean for us who have one already? I do know I bought my retron 5 legally with no problems but people on the internet are telling me it's illegal, but I see the systems sitting on the store shelves... I am sorry if my Retron 5 offends anyone but I don't want to play detective here. If the makers of the emulation programs make a console system, I will buy it and discard my retron 5, until then I can't go back to having 7 systems hooked up to my old TV with no HDMI because someone says someones getting Fucked over or breaking a law of emulation or something but they are not actually losing any money, just can't do it man, this thing is way too awesome They have proof these emulation programs were stolen, and hyperkin has likely profited greatly from this, wouldn't an attorney tackle this case no problem knowing he would be paid from the compensation resulting from the lawsuit? With open and shut cases they have been known to do that, isn't this the kind of goldmine the ambulance chasers fight over? Or since emulation is kind of a sketchy area to begin with is it kind of like calling the police because someone stole your bag of weed? Again, I'm not defending anyone here and I hope my post doesn't appear snappy as it's not meant to be, I just think this is a little more complicated than people are saying it is so I will game on with HDMI and if somebody makes a legal one I will buy that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenegg Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 The fact you enjoy your Retron 5 doesn't offend anyone. The issue lies squarely with Hyperkin. There isn't a huge amount of cash to be won in a court settlement, especially since it's not money the emulator authors want. They want Hyperkin to remove their emulators from the system. Hyperkin can't do that, as there aren't other emulators for them to fall back on for those 2 cores. The major problem about going after Hyperkin is the cost of legal counsel. You need a very specific type of lawyer for a case like this and they don't come cheap. Hyperkin knows full well that they're in the wrong, but they also know there's a high probability no one will come after them. Many of us purchased this system a good deal of time before it was known what emulators were in use. Hyperkin even outright lied, saying they weren't using these cores. It wasn't until they were getting a little pushback from the gaming media that they decided to be truthful. Even though they've admitted to using the cores in question, they're not doing what's legally required for them to do. I will outright refuse to purchase any further products from Hyperkin, unless they resolve this issue. I would highly recommend everyone else do the same. We can't allow this type of behaviour to go unpunished. It's a horrible thing to happen in our community, which could have some extremely negative affects should this continue to happen in the future. Judging by the indifference of the people on their Facebook group, most people simply don't care. They see a product that interests them and they buy it regardless of the illegal business practices used to make it. They don't realize the message they're sending by continuing to support Hyperkin and the potential affect this can have on the emulation and retro gaming communities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philyso Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) They reverted to an old version of Genesis Plus GX though in their last december update, one version that was still under GPL licence (and therefore allowed commercial use) so it seems some actions were taken by the authors against Hyperkin. It remains that Hyperkin is still reselling free emulators for a huge profit (without any of the original devs getting anything in compensation) and tried to hide it to their customers. The fact that few people really care about this is not surprising, but I think it's worth denouncing it for those who care about what kind of companies they purchase stuff from. Another thing that many people don't realize is that it sends a bad message to open-source emulator developers. It tells them that they should better go closed-source or commercialize their work since 1) retrogaming has become a juicy business and people are willing to pay insane prices without much questionning as long as it seems "awesome" 2) nobody gives a shit about them, would contribute anything back to open-source projects they took code from or simply show some respect for the work they did for free during all these years... Edited January 31, 2015 by philyso 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.