Atari 8-bit Software Preservation Initiative

[Mclaneinc]

I don't agree with that reasoning. The original document disk might perfectly have additional samples, templates, or even a tutorial. And conceivable (although this is not very likely, I agree) some utilities or extra functionality.

 

The fact that the software can make a data disk doesn't mean anything. It wouldn't make any sense to not let you because, among other things, you might want or need multiple data disks.

 

Ok, let's bet. What you want to bet?

 

 

Can't fault your thinking there , I was merely thinking data disk rather than data disk with examples etc..

 

I certainly hope that is the case as the more the merrier but I'm going to stick by my original word and say its no different...My bet...A Caburys Cream Egg! (not for me, my daughter...Way too sweet for me

[Mclaneinc]

Brothers. The Ginger Cat of Good Luck (Henry) has smiled on us once again and delivered to me what looks like another golden floppy.

 

zep.jpg zep2.jpg

 

Enjoy!

Zeppelin.zip

 

** B Side was just a demo disk and can be ATR'd

 

My wife has just melted looking at TGCOGL (Henry)...Looks like a right sweetie....(and computer hog!)

 

 

Oops, forgot to says thanks for the dump...(That sounds wrong)

Edited April 10, 2017 by Mclaneinc

[José Pereira]

Mclaneinc are you near Manchester? I remember that I saw a Cadbury factory there in the 90s ...

Edited April 10, 2017 by José Pereira

[Mclaneinc]

I'm the other end of the country, I've been to it and been on the Coronation Street set (UK TV soap opera), sadly the chocolate tastes different these days...

[+DjayBee]

Brothers. The Ginger Cat of Good Luck (Henry) has smiled on us once again and delivered to me what looks like another golden floppy.

 

This one looks much better in emulation(!) but still fails the alignment check approx. every 4th time.

It has only one bad sector (111/$6F) outside track 5 which holds all protections except the alignment.

Compare this to: The "old" dump from remowilliams succeeds(!) approx. every 4th time and has 11 bad sectors.

 

There are possible reasons that it is needed:

- The same sector is bad in the dump from remowilliams.

- Zeppelin has several protection routines which are called at different points, so this call might be hidden somewhere.

 

There are also possible reasons that it is not needed:

- All code I have found up to now is unscrambled/unencrypted in RAM.

- I could not yet find any reference to sector 111 in the code.

 

Let's wait for another dump to show up and compare again.

I will also come up with a crack soon, so somebody can play it and set a breakpoint to sector 111.

[+remowilliams]

Seems I still have one of the Zeppelin disks, not sure if it was the one from the original dump. Just looking at it I can see it has physical damage, but I suppose I could run it through the kryoflux if anyone thinks its worthwhile... ?

[ijor]

I certainly hope that is the case as the more the merrier but I'm going to stick by my original word and say its no different...My bet...

 

Well, at the preservation business that kind of assumption, "that probably is the same and not needed", is rather risky. Regarding the bet, I was cheating, I know it is not the same (if you were going to bet lots of money I wouldn't tell you, LOL). I do have a dump of the original document disk. It is damaged, so not 100% sure what's in there, but I can see it has some additional content. Not a rare title anyway.

[ijor]

With a lot it is possible (EA, SSI). Not so much with later Synapse titles. Here's a list of what protection I've recorded. You can see by year they start off fairly simple, then it goes bonkers. Not just format/sector types but timings also.

...

 

Nice list. You probably already aware, but please note that the skew align protection cannot be seen by analyzing the file image. Rarely used by Synapse, except precisely in this title.

[ijor]

Brothers. The Ginger Cat of Good Luck (Henry) has smiled on us once again and delivered to me what looks like another golden floppy.

 

Very nice. Many thanks. This seems to be good. Well, at least good in the sense that it doesn't seem to be damaged ... Also seems to be a slightly different version than the one at the Torrent.

 

This one looks much better in emulation(!) but still fails the alignment check approx. every 4th time.

It has only one bad sector (111/$6F) outside track 5 which holds all protections except the alignment.

Compare this to: The "old" dump from remowilliams succeeds(!) approx. every 4th time and has 11 bad sectors.

That "bad" sector is present on all the dumps I've seen. So I would say it is not damaged.

 

Regarding the failure. I can't say I am 100% sure. I would need a deeper analysis and some more tests. But at this point I am suspecting that the protection is simply bad designed. As you are saying, one of the checks (it has several and selected randomly) measures the track to track skew alignment. But I don't think this title was duplicated with a fixed skew align. So it is possible that whoever coded the protection made a wrong assumption and didn't test it thoroughly with multiple copies.

Edited April 11, 2017 by ijor

[Mclaneinc]

 

Well, at the preservation business that kind of assumption, "that probably is the same and not needed", is rather risky. Regarding the bet, I was cheating, I know it is not the same (if you were going to bet lots of money I wouldn't tell you, LOL). I do have a dump of the original document disk. It is damaged, so not 100% sure what's in there, but I can see it has some additional content. Not a rare title anyway.

 

Not saying its not needed, they are all needed just so we can be sure we have the full version, just noting that I thought it might be the same not realising I was being played

 

You won't get much more dedicated a person to the archival of software than myself and the guys on here, sadly when I lost all my originals and my floppies I think the odd bit of history went with them which is why I push for so many people to share collections rather than face the loss I did. I also urge folk to get their originals properly dumped so we have exactly what we have been chatting about, the best result.

 

I've said it before, the Atari community have always had this reticence to collate and share, its like there's some unwritten code amongst collectors that they will be performing a huge act of piracy and remember I'm talking of the old stuff, not the brand new stuff (before I get Petey claiming I'm supporting piracy of his gear to which I can hand on heart say I have never hacked his games or dumped them (I don't know how to be honest regarding any protection)). I implore people to get their stuff dumped so it can be made available or at least Archived by a number of people, I'd prefer sharing, that's been my mantra all these many years. One day the physical media will crumble, the drives etc will die and we will in some cases be le without titles that ARE out there in collections sitting doing nothing.

 

Anyway, Ijor, you cheating ^%$^^% $^$^$

 

Sorry to hear your version is damaged, lets hope a full one turns up...

 

Paul.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Mclaneinc

[Zarxx]

 

Very nice. Many thanks. This seems to be good. Well, at least good in the sense that it doesn't seem to be damaged ... Also seems to be a slightly different version than the one at the Torrent.

 

That "bad" sector is present on all the dumps I've seen. So I would say it is not damaged.

 

Regarding the failure. I can't say I am 100% sure. I would need a deeper analysis and some more tests. But at this point I am suspecting that the protection is simply bad designed. As you are saying, one of the checks (it has several and selected randomly) measures the track to track skew alignment. But I don't think this title was duplicated with a fixed skew align. So it is possible that whoever coded the protection made a wrong assumption and didn't test it thoroughly with multiple copies.

 

FYI. Labelled as number 2963

[ijor]

 

I checked all the Zeppelin dumps (even when most are damaged, I can still get an idea of the skew align), and most actually seem to be more or less skew aligned. They are certainly not perfect aligned as other titles that have skew align protection, such as earlier EA titles, but in this case the check is not very tight ...

 

FYI. Labelled as number 2963

 

Zarxx, yours might be a bad copy, with an incorrect skew align. Which parameters do you used to produce the SCP image? Would you mind making a new SCP image?

 

Seems I still have one of the Zeppelin disks, not sure if it was the one from the original dump. Just looking at it I can see it has physical damage, but I suppose I could run it through the kryoflux if anyone thinks its worthwhile... ?

Well, if you dare , it might be useful. Even if it has some errors, it might still be interesting at this point. Perhaps try to image the back side as well. Most of the time Synapse used to record the same title on both sides.

 

I would recommend using just two revolutions, and double stepping of course. The idea is to make the disk to "suffer" the pressure of the heads as less as possible. And be ready for some good clean up of the drive afterwards

Edited April 13, 2017 by ijor

[+DjayBee]

Also seems to be a slightly different version than the one at the Torrent.

 

The only difference to the one in the torrent - beside the now missing bad dumped sectors - is sector 720.

 

Zarxx, yours might be a bad copy, with an incorrect skew align.

 

The ATX has an incorrect alignment for sure; don't know for the original disk.

 

If somebody is eager to find out if bad sector 111 is also needed for copy protection, play the attached crack in Altirra and put a breakpoint to "read sector 111".

The crack has removed five protections incl. the skew alignment.

Zeppelin (1983)(Synapse Software)(US).atr

Zeppelin - Documentation.txt

[+remowilliams]

Well, if you dare , it might be useful. Even if it has some errors, it might still be interesting at this point. Perhaps try to image the back side as well. Most of the time Synapse used to record the same title on both sides.

 

Sure why not The disk is a physical disaster but interestingly has some multi menu boot on the backside, not Zeppelin.

 

zep.raw.rar

[_The Doctor__]

Just to get back on topic... we are suppose to using original disks and preserving them. Failing that reconstructing disks from multiple failed originals Failing that using copies from originals, kryo, scp, bit-writer, happy, etc. down to atx, atr. then the offshoot of cracking all these should have their own topic or thread... I am in favor of moving all the offshoot cracking from here to it's own thread, all the non original reconstructions to their own reconstruction preservation thread.. Just saying it's getting messy in here..... Just don't want to loose steam... the weather getting nice is going to take half the community away soon... so mark these threads/topics to follow and revive it again if it dies down especially towards fall or winter!

Edited April 13, 2017 by _The Doctor__

[Zarxx]

I checked all the Zeppelin dumps (even when most are damaged, I can still get an idea of the skew align), and most actually seem to be more or less skew aligned. They are certainly not perfect aligned as other titles that have skew align protection, such as earlier EA titles, but in this case the check is not very tight ...

 

 

Zarxx, yours might be a bad copy, with an incorrect skew align. Which parameters do you used to produce the SCP image? Would you mind making a new SCP image?

 

Well, if you dare , it might be useful. Even if it has some errors, it might still be interesting at this point. Perhaps try to image the back side as well. Most of the time Synapse used to record the same title on both sides.

 

I would recommend using just two revolutions, and double stepping of course. The idea is to make the disk to "suffer" the pressure of the heads as less as possible. And be ready for some good clean up of the drive afterwards

 

The SCP in the original zip was made with a8rawconv. Here's the first dump, made with the SCP tool. It's larger as it includes the B side, but my drive isn't flippy converted so the B side will be missing 4 tracks. Although in this case it's not an issue (Atari profile, default settings other than 5 revs). I can do as many dumps as you like.

 

Zeppelin (SCP tool).zip

[ijor]

Here is a clean working dump of Zeppelin. As the name of the file implies, this title works only on an 810 drive. It will randomly fail on a 1050 and probably on everything else as well. So if using Altirra, make sure the drive is configured as 810. Will elaborate later ...

Zeppelin-Synapse-810only.zip

Edited April 14, 2017 by ijor

[ijor]

The SCP in the original zip was made with a8rawconv. Here's the first dump, made with the SCP tool ...

 

Your disk doesn't work. The skew align is incorrect and it will fail most of the times between games. I can't be 100% sure, but I suspect that this is not an original recording. It was probably overwritten with a Happy or something like this. It wouldn't be the first time I see original disks overwritten with a Happy. It is not only because of the skew align. The low level dump gives me some clues about the recording system. But again, I can't be completely sure. Thanks anyway!

 

Sure why not The disk is a physical disaster but interestingly has some multi menu boot on the backside, not Zeppelin.

Thanks. The back side probably has a multi-boot demo. That was also typical on Synapse disks of the period.

 

I as said, this title works only on an 810 drive. I am writing a detailed description because it is quite interesting. But essentially, and because of the way it was recorded and how the skew align is checked, it depends on the specific 810 timing.

 

Also, besides the main skew align check described by DjayBee, there is another one that checks the skew align indirectly. This is the routine starting at $2DA5, the first check that he mentions. It reads a sector on track 4, then one of the dup sectors on track 5 and it expects to be a specific one. And this obviously depends on the skew align (among other things). What is very interesting is that this actually fails with the original disk on the 810! But the failure is not fatal. When the check fails a BRK instruction is executed. The default BRK OS handler will just skip one byte from the next instruction. In this case, and probably by sheer luck it is completely harmless. So the protection failure actually passes!

[Place Logo Here]

I can never seem to get the download of the torrent started. Is the name still "Atari 8bit Preserved Software 2015-05-02.torrent"?

[AtariGeezer]

The most current one is "Atari 8bit Preserved Software 2016-07-16"

 

The Torrent download is in this post

Edited April 30, 2017 by AtariGeezer

[Farb]

Hi all,

 

It's obviously been a long time since the last torrent release. There's been plenty of preservation activity going on and unfortunately it put the torrent itself at a lower priority. However, the time is just about here for a new release. I have a few bugs to work out with titles containing foreign characters in my DAT generation script but once that's resolved, I'll publish a new torrent.

 

In the meantime, here's what will be in it. Thanks to everyone who contributed dumps and time helping correct both dumps and the preservation database!

 

From advfan:

Boulder Dash II - Databyte

Spindizzy - Electric Dreams

From Atarimania:

Adventure 03: Mission Impossible - Adventure International

Bounty Bob Strikes Back! - US Gold

Figure Fun - Thorn EMI

Molecule Man - Mastertronic

Phrase Challenger - Acorn Software

Red Moon - Level 9

River Rescue - Sparklers

Tricky Tutorial #11: The Memory Map Tutorial

From Diaperboy:

Drol - Broderbund Software

From DjayBee:

Atari Vereinsverwaltung - Atari

Atarischreiber - Atari

From djmat56:

Drelbs - US Gold

Price of Magik - Level 9 Computing

From Farb:

Adventure 02 - Pirate Adventure - Adventure International

Airstrike - English Software Company

Alien Swarm - Inhome Software (dumped by fujidude)

Anti-Sub Patrol (Roklan)

Antic Disk Verion (several) - Antic Publishing Inc.

Arcade Classics: Starfire and Fire One - Epyx (dumped by fujidude)

Astro Chase - First Star Software

AtariWriter 80 - Atari

Baja Buggies - Gamestar

Crosscheck - Datasoft

Dunjonquest: Temple of Apshai - Epyx

Electronic Checkbook, The - Timeworks

Elementary Biology - APX

Festival - AIM Software

Galactic Avenger - Cosmi

Gambler - Keypunch Software

Genie - New Horizons Software

Guitar Wizard - Baudville

Haunted Hill - Swifty Software

Home Accountant - Continental Software

Home Financial Management - Thorn EMI

IRIDIS #1 - Code Works

Jumpman - EPYX

Keyboard Organ - APX

KoalaPainter - Koala Technologies

Maze of Death - Syncro

MegaFont ][+ - XLEnt Software

Money Manager - Timeworks

Music I - Terms and Notations - APX

Panzer War - Windcrest Software

PaperClip - Batteries Included

Print Shop Companion - Broderbund Software

Print Shop Graphics Library 1 - Broderbund Software

Print Shop Graphics Library 3 - Broderbund Software

PrintPower - Hi-Tech Expressions

Run for the Money - Thunder Mountain

Softside DV (various) - Software Publications

Spite & Malice - Cosmi

Spy vs. Spy III: Arctic Antics - EPYX

Starbase Hyperion - Quality Software

Tricky Tutorial #4: Basics of Animation

Trust - Rantom Software

From ijor:

Zeppelin - Synapse Software

From Neo-Reo:

Computer Acquire - Avalon Hill

Conflict 2500 - Avalon Hill

Roadracer + Bowler - Avalon Hill

From orpheuswaking:

Scapeghost - Level 9

From remowilliams:

Beer Belly Burt's Brew Biz - Americana

Bible Baseball - Davka

D-Bug - Electronic Arts

Joe and the Nuclear Caverns - STV Software

OGRE - Origin Systems

Tink! Tonk! - Tinka's Mazes - Mindscape

Tink! Tonk! - Tuk Goes to Town - Mindscape

From Savetz:

Advanced Protection Techniques - Alpha Systems

Spell Me - Castle Software

Tiny Tots - Athena Software

From thecuttingedge84:

Adventures of Oswald (PDI)

From Voy:

A.D. 2044 (Side A only) - Mirage Software

Alchemia - Mirage Software

Around the Planet - Mirage Software

Astro-Droid - Red Rat Software

Astro-Droid - Byte Back Software

Blinky's Scary School - Zeppelin Games

Boing II - ASF

Bomb Fusion - Mastertronic

Bug Off! - Adventure International

Cannibals - Calisto Software

Chuckie Egg - A&F Software

Computer War - Sparklers

Constellation (LK Avalon)

Convicts, The - Domain Software

Cops n' Robbers - Atlantis Software

Dawn Raider - Atlantis Software

Daylight Robbery - Atlantis Software

Death Race - Atlantis Software

Desmond's Dungeon - Alternative Software

Despatch Rider - Mastertronic

Dreadnought - Byte Back

Encounter! - Novagen Software

Escape from Doomworld - Byte Back

Excelsor - Players

Fantastic Soccer - Zeppelin Games

Frenesis - Mastertronic

Gunfighter - Atlantis Software

Hardball! - Kixx

Kręgi Zagłady - ASF

Last Guardian - LK Avalon

Mission Zircon - ASF

Moscow 1993 - Sikor Soft

Najemnik: Powrót - Krysal

Roderic - Mirage Software

Sexversi - Mirage Software

Smuś - LK Avalon

Soccer - Sparklers

Turbican - ASF

Władca - Mirage Software

Zybex - LK Avalon

From Zarxx:

Chatterbee - Tronix Software

[Foster]

This is great news! Thanks for the update!

[sargie]

Where will the link to the Torrent be posted? I have a nice, fast connection and will be happy to seed.

Edited May 5, 2017 by sargie

[Farb]

It will be posted here. Any help seeding is certainly appreciated.

 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Guest]

Mclaneinc are you near Manchester? I remember that I saw a Cadbury factory there in the 90s ...

I had no idea there's *ever* been a Cadbury factory in Manchester.

 

Cadbury's Manufacturing HQ has always been in Bourneville (Birmingham) and they did have a second factory at Keynsham (Bristol) which I believe closed down about 5 yrs ago.