Tempest and its reputaion as one of the greatest games ever.

[AtariORdead]

I love it and I enjoy it a lot, but I honestly beleive its reputation as one of the greatest games ever is a direct result of Jaguar owners desperate to cling on to something that validates the machine.

 

If it really was a genuine contender for one of the best games ever than why do versions for both Saturn and PS1 sit there largely ignored and considered nothing more than decent games amongst many others.

 

Both games are never included in even top ten lists for either system which is strange for a title supposedly as good as tempest is, especially considering the Saturn ended up with a not so big library.

 

Its a non event when released on other systems, still agreat game, but with the reputation bestowed upon it by jag owners then surely it should have more of an impact, and this is on 2 other systems, not just 1.

 

So was its reputation just artificially created as a really good game on a system where it outshone most other releases, is it a classic case of big fish in a small pond but disspperas amongst the rest when intrduced into a bigger pond.

 

 

[+save2600]

Game is pretty unique as shooters go, so follows naturally that'd limit mass appeal.

[Gregory DG]

Well, it did win a lot of awards when it was originally released, so it's not all the Jaguar's doing.

 

How about this: There was a Top 100 PC games of all time done a few months back. Guess what game was NOT on it? Tetris. One of the greatest, if not THE greatest game ever made and it was totally left off the list. So, if that could happen to Tetris, surely it can happen to Tempest 2000.

 

My contention is that Tempest 2000 is one of the greatest games ever made because of how it makes the player FEEL. When I play it, I feel powerful. It takes you to a different state of mind, "In the Zone" some people call it. Not many games do that.

[+xucaen]

I want to get a real tempest cabinet someday. I remember playing Tempest in the arcade, I thought it was amazing!

 

Last year when I was researching the Jaguar, I read that Tempest was the game that sold jaguar consoles back then. According to this article, it sounds like the other releases for other consoles are a bit different. I guess the only way to know for certain which is the best is to sit down with all the consoles and play tempest on each one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_2000

 

Where exactly did you read that tempest was "the best game ever"? I read it is the best game on jaguar, which is not the same thing.

 

"Tempest 2000 was awarded Best Jaguar Game of 1994 by Electronic Gaming Monthly"

[Rick Dangerous]

I think in my year on this forum I've heard zero jaguar collectors claim that it's among the best games ever made.

 

It's a very fun game, and it's one of the better offerings on the Jaguar. I'd go as far as saying it holds up well against the top games in the genre at the time (arcade/shooter?) and is still fun to this day having stood the test of time because of it's simplicity and fun factor.

[Hyperboy]

I put it in my top 10 of all time!

 

From my arcade cab to my Vita I really enjoy every version I have.

[NeoGeoNinja]

The game was designed with the Jaguar in mind. It was also designed to support rotary control.

 

The game was ported to PS1 and Saturn, but for all the supposed advancements, lost it's charisma and core playability/feel in the process.

 

As such, that's why the Jaguar version is still considered the best.

 

Tempest 2000 most probably isn't one of the best games ever made, by general consensus. But for those of us who have always had, or grew up with a Jaguar, it's usually held in high regard as the finest title for the machine AND one of your favourite/greatest games EVER made. That's certainly how I feel about it.

 

It's one of the only Jag games I own that when I put it on, it's hopelessly addictive. Not only that, when I die, I ALWAYS prefer to start back right from Lvl 1.

 

It's classic arcade gaming perfection. Only problem with the game is, although the premise is SUPER simple, many seemingly just don't 'get it' on a casual, quick play. It takes some adjusting too and probably gets overlooked in the process, sadly.

 

If I ever planned to sell of my Jaguar collection in it's entirety, I would ALWAYS have to have a loose Jag with a T2K cart. This will forever be the case.

 

As a side note; I still need to play TxK! C'mon Jeff/Giles... where's that PS3 & PS4 version at?!

[Austin]

To me it's one of the best arcade-style games ever made. Over twenty years later it still feels fresh to me and is still highly addictive. Whereas a lot of arcade-oriented games from this time period keep me playing for only 20 or 30 minutes (if that), with Tempest 2000, I'll turn it on with the same expectations and end up playing for hours on end instead. I think that speaks for itself.

 

While the Saturn version is great, I don't look as highly to it due to it missing the shifting web effects the Jag version has. It also uses the music from the Jag CD bundled OST disc and it loses a lot of the *oomph* the cart soundtrack has, which in turn dampens a lot of the energy the original game provided. The PS1 version isn't even a part of the equation, people have generally looked on it as an inferior game to 2K despite some nice added visual effects. The web layouts and the way the power-ups work just weren't designed and implemented as well as in 2000.

 

In the end though I've rarely heard of many outside of the niche retro gaming community state it's one of the all-time greats. I think that has to do more with the game being featured on unpopular/unsuccessful platforms (the Jag and Saturn, both of which sold pretty poorly in the US). With that in mind it makes me happy to know that TxK will bring a lot of that same feeling Tempest 2000 provided and make it available to a far larger audience than the Jag or Saturn could provide.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Austin

[Lost Dragon]

Yep, despite owning Tempest X3 on PS1, i don't think i'd class it as a conversion as such, unlike the saturn version, which does it's best to mimic the Jaguar hardware's custom effects, PS1 Tempest was done with PS1 custom hardware in mind, cue new graphical effects and not being coded by Jeff has enough gameplay changes to make it a 'different' enough game to make it stand alongside the Jaguar version, but for myself it'll always be in it's shadow.

 

Is it 'The Best Game, Ever? No, i'd personally rate something like Xcom far higher, but it was and still is a flagship Jaguar game and proved you could take a coin-op classic and bring it kicking and screaming into the (then) modern era.

 

I hoped it'd be the start of a range of flagship updates, but as i said elsewhere Defender 2000 was a personal dissapointment, never tried Missile Command (with or without VR headset), nor Space War 2000 and Dact.Joust i've only ever seen on video, which might not have represented final game etc.

[+LS650]

Actually, I would say T2K is one of the best games ever, but it's just an opinion.

 

For example, some people -love- Super Mario games, and place them in various top 10 lists - but I effin' HATE platform jumping games, and can't for the life of me wonder how the Mario games ever got so popular.

 

Hey, it's just my opinion...

[sd32]

"Tempest 2000 was awarded Best Jaguar Game of 1994 by Electronic Gaming Monthly"

 

Also made it into EGMs top 100 games of all time. And thats no the only popular gaming publication were T2K made it into their top games of all time list.

[Cobra Kai]

Actually, I would say T2K is one of the best games ever, but it's just an opinion.

 

For example, some people -love- Super Mario games, and place them in various top 10 lists - but I effin' HATE platform jumping games, and can't for the life of me wonder how the Mario games ever got so popular.

 

Hey, it's just my opinion...

 

It's definitely one of my top 5 games of all time and I'm not shy to admit it. It really never gets old, and it has a lasting challenge. In fact I still can't pass level 64 after 20 years of playing. The game has aged particularly well also, even the music is still perfect. If you look at contemporary titles on Saturn and PS1 that were hot at the time, like Tomb Raider, I mean, good game, but it looks and plays like crap.

 

As far as T2K not being highly regarded on other systems, well what can you say really? There's definitely some merit to there being more choices on those machines, but that also does not say that T2K is not one of the best games ever. Just because people didn't buy it up as rabidly as Jaguar owners did, just means more people missed out on it. It doesn't exactly fall in with the typical 'genres' that certain gamers look for. It's not a normal shmup, it's not a platform, adventure, rpg or anything of the kind, so I'd say it just doesn't have that wide appeal to just sell like hotcakes to Joe 'casual' gamer that was birthed with the PS1 generation. I'd say even the screenshots on the packaging don't offer what the game actually does, it may even look rather dull and bland.

 

Also made it into EGMs top 100 games of all time. And thats no the only popular gaming publication were T2K made it into their top games of all time list.

Did EGM do more than 1 top 100 list? Because, T2K did not appear in the 1997 original top 100 list, I still have that magazine.

[+LS650]

It must be tough for Yak; he's going to go to his grave with people telling him, "That Tempest 2000 you wrote way back in 1994 is the best game ever!"

[Spacey Invader]

Only problem with the game is, although the premise is SUPER simple, many seemingly just don't 'get it' on a casual, quick play. It takes some adjusting too and probably gets overlooked in the process, sadly.

 

--This gets more true every year. I've set people down to play the "best" Jaguar game and they either stare blankly or just fire blindly while circling around the tube, finally die, shrug and move on. It's a different world than the one in which I read my VG mag, with all the reviewers filled with nostalgia for the original and anticipating the release with gravity -- and all the while, us kids had no idea about the original.

 

Well. I'm wiser than that now, thankfully. If you fish around, any game that features incrementing a score as a primary function is more or less lost on the current generation -- not that that's front-page news. It only makes sense that the niche of us who love that sort of game will appreciate Tempest 2000 more and more as time passes.

[Spacey Invader]

Only problem with the game is, although the premise is SUPER simple, many seemingly just don't 'get it' on a casual, quick play. It takes some adjusting too and probably gets overlooked in the process, sadly.

 

This becomes more and more true as the years pass. I've set people down to experience the "best" of the Jag only to have them blindly hold down the fire button while spinning the tube. Then, they die, shrug, ask "this is 64 bits?" and go back to PS3. That was a few years ago -- these days, they'd go back to PS4 I suppose.

 

A glance around the Internet proves that any game that prominently features incrementing a score as a main gameplay component just falls flat to the current generation of gamers. I'm done trying to convert others and the blank stares this tends to garner -- it's our secret. Our game. And being such a crucial part of the niche, those who love these sorts of games, it'll only get more and more important, while the rest of the world sees it fade into obscurity.

 

Hell, when I was a kid reading about the release, the editors of my favorite VG mag went nuts waiting for this one to come out, and I hadn't even heard of the original. Sure, I'm wiser now, but the fact is, these are times in which "Grand Theft Auto III" is the current "rusty old game" with "horrible graphics" (actual quotes).

[sd32]

 

Did EGM do more than 1 top 100 list? Because, T2K did not appear in the 1997 original top 100 list, I still have that magazine.

Really?, thats the issue i was talking about. I was sure it was there. My bad, i still have the issue stored away, but i will take your word that it isnt there. I apologize for the mistake.

It did make it to Game Informers top 100 games.

[atarian63]

My first real arcade machine was a cocktail tempest, yes a shooter and most games I collect and play are, absolutely one of the finest games ever! Still love it to this day and jag version along with the Nuon version! I think it is the control spinner on the real arcade that makes it great. many things try and are great too but nothing as great as that original controller.

Edited February 9, 2015 by atarian63

[LynxJagLunatic]

When it was released it was the best game on the Jag maybe that is the reason it's held in such high regard. I love the game but I have more fun with Battlemorph and the Iron Solder games.

[Serblander]

Back in the day when i worked my arse off during the Summer Holidays in order to save up for an import Jag and 3 games ($500 for Jag + $100 per game) i was going nuts deciding which of all the possible games i could buy (lol - the dozen or so available). Ended up with AvP (looked STUNNING and blew everyone's minds when i got it), Kasumi Ninja (I was a die hard MK man and local arcade champ) and one more. I remember from all the pics and ads for T2K i thought "WTF" and didn't want to get it. It looked weird. In the end, i opted to get it as all the magazines i used to religiously read (ST Format, etc) had nothing but the best to say about it and, had never seen a score below 9/10 or 90%. After i got home and played them all, we all got hooked on Tempest 2000. Played it again, and again, and again... I though it was one of the best shooters i ever played, that is, until i bought Jonathan's Rotary Controller years later, then, i had no doubt about it!

 

 

Last year when I was researching the Jaguar, I read that Tempest was the game that sold jaguar consoles back then. According to this article, it sounds like the other releases for other consoles are a bit different. I guess the only way to know for certain which is the best is to sit down with all the consoles and play tempest on each one.

 

I've set this up at a few different events. Lined them all up and got attendees to play and see which they preferred. Jaguar version with rotary controller won every time. The only time there was any other contender is when i set up a NUON with Tempest 3000, then it was roughly 50/50.

 

 

[Lost Dragon]

Game did pull in all manner of awards, details can be found here:

 

http://www.mobygames.com/game/tempest-2000

 

Plus reviews of 97% Gamesmaster Magazine, 95% Atari Entertainment etc etc.

 

Though C+VG seemed to revise their score from what i remember, upped it when it was listed as being a must buy for Jaguar, over it's original score.

 

Also Gamestm awarded it 'Greatest RETRO Game EVER' in a 2-page feature in their Retro section.

[Bill Loguidice]

It's certainly ONE OF the greatest game ever, which numbers in the countless hundreds of titles. A great title is a great title, period. That doesn't mean it would make a top 100 games of all-time list, but then lots of great games wouldn't because the volume of games grows exponentially every day. With millions of games having been created over the past 60+ years, getting any to stand out in some way (and continue to stand out) is no small feat.

 

With the above in mind, it absolutely helps that the Jaguar had a relatively small number of titles, a relatively small number of good titles, it was the last Atari system, and it was infamous in its day. That makes a quality game like Tempest 2000 stand out moreso than it would if it were on most other platforms. Also to be fair, Tempest 2000 was built on the foundation of an already great, classic game, Tempest, so it's not surprising that something that more or less improves on something like that will also be considered amazing.

 

Compare that to TxK, which is an improvement yet again on Tempest 2000 and 3000. Because of the way it was released, the platform it was released on, the era in which it was released, etc., TxK will never achieve the same regard or notice as Tempest 2000, despite arguably being a better game. That's just the way things work in our industry.

[Austin]

Compare that to TxK, which is an improvement yet again on Tempest 2000 and 3000. Because of the way it was released, the platform it was released on, the era in which it was released, etc., TxK will never achieve the same regard or notice as Tempest 2000, despite arguably being a better game. That's just the way things work in our industry.

If it was going to be Vita exclusive, then perhaps. It is coming to the PS4 though.

[Willard]

i've never really heard t2k mentioned as one of the best games ever prior to this thread. I like it, and have it for Jaguar and Nuon, so it's not just a Jaguar thing. I'd really like to get rid of my nuon but for Freefall and Tempest I keep it around and allow it to clug up an outlet, a spot on my AV switcher, and some space under my entertainment center.

 

The PSX version isn't really the same game, and the Saturn version is missing some elements that add to the ambience of the game (like the shading on the web, and other small touches like a more dynamic sound engine as it spools off a CD). These things dont make a world of difference, but I think it would've helped and for people like me I have a hard time getting the inferior version if the superior version is accessible.

 

I agree the Jaguar was the perfect platform for it to get noticed on. It's a good game in its' own right, but it's also a different kind of game that might put some people off just as it might be the reason why others like it. I don't play it that often but it's definitely one that I do keep come back to now and again.

[Bill Loguidice]

If it was going to be Vita exclusive, then perhaps. It is coming to the PS4 though.

 

The same comments apply to the game regardless of the platforms it will eventually appear on. It's just not in a position to make the same type of impact regardless of how good it is. That's no fault of the game.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

Graphical differences between versions shouldn't be that big of a deal really in terms of where the game should land on Top ### lists, it should hinge on how the game plays and do you want to keep on playing. One famous quote from Jeff Minter on the PSX version was "they lobotomized the AI Droid!" (that was in someone's sig for a long time). I don't know about the Saturn version but I think people don't bring it up on those platforms very often in that those platforms had a different market focus. People bought the Saturn to play Sega games in 3D, much like people buy Nintendo products currently for Zelda or Smash Bros or Mario Kart, not because it has some good indie stuff on it. Ports *should* be better than the originals by general perspective since that path has already been tread but if all you do is improve the look but not the play (or at least maintain the same play), then something is wrong there.

 

I do get that Tempest as a concept itself is not everyone's cup of tea but the Jaguar version is the one that:

 

1) Set the table for how to do a remake properly that many other games can look to.

2) Set the table for other ports - I imagine that if Jeff Minter was hired to do T2k Part 2 on the Jaguar CD, he would have improved on some of the graphics as well as changed up some other things with enemies. Keep in mind this was a 1st Gen game, almost a launch title.

3) Nailed the need for a crisp display. The main issue with Tempest 3000 was the 'blur' that combined with the fluid movement of the webs made it harder to distinguish what it was you were shooting. The original arcade did not have that issue.

4) As a 90s cart with very limited space, pulled off a soundtrack/audio package that was downright incredible and set a standard not just for Jaguar games but cart games in general

 

Whether it is the 'best game evar', well that's always a matter of opinion. Personally I judge my GOTY picks by how much time I spend on a game and how willing I am to go back and play it again. There are a lot of games that grace the 'TOP 1000 PICKS OF ALL TIME, YOU'LL NEVER GUESS THAT THE LAST OF US AND CALL OF DUTY ARE THERE IN THE TOP 3' that I wouldn't waste my time on and I would much rather play Tempest 2000 than a lot of those supposedly definitive picks.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Shaggy the Atarian