Keatah Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I'm stoked for it... Plug and play games without needing to be connected to anything for day one updates.. I would LOVE this!!!! Me too! Why can't today's game publishers finish something before releasing it? Are today's programmers that dumb? And the bugs that do make it through, why do they have to be fixed? Back in the day these were called easter eggs. Nothing has to be perfect you know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerSpaceFan Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 So I just listened to Mike discussing the Retro VGS on the All Gen Gamer podcast and I think it's a pretty gutsy (and slightly crazy) idea. I applaud the effort for sure but I have two questions. 1) Where will I be able to buy these cartridge games? I assume not Gamespot so is the notion that I order a game online and wait four to six weeks for delivery? (PS up here in Canada that's how long we wait for items to arrive from places like eBay so this is no exaggeration) 2) What ideas do the designers have to block the inevitable flash carts that people will make? Nintendo couldn't stop original DS flash carts, they can at least patch the 3DS to block them nowadays but the pirates aren't far behind. Will Retro VGS Everdrive carts be far behind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I listened to the podcast also. This thing is a joke and it's gonna tank hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I recall seeing some sort of enema pumping device or IV dispenser in a hospital that was built from the Jaguar case. I also saw a dental camera that uses the shell. What are the hardware specs for this thing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Some practical (hard) questions... 1- A retro system based on cartridges? In this day and age of DLC and flash memory? 2- What kinds of retro "games" are going to be available? Where will we get them? 3- How much is it going to cost? Console? Cartridges? Controller? 4- Customer support? 5- Will this work for modern displays? 6- What sort of hardware is this built around? Memory? Processor? 7- Do you think you can recoup all the investment? 8- What kind of OS? 9- Is the market ready for a retro-system? 10- Do you think gamers are ready to give up DLC and DRM and online activities? 11- Are developers on board? Licensing cleared? 12- Are people prepared to deal with cartridges and wires again? 13- Can I play the genuine classics from the 70's and 80's? 14- Can I get the same blocky graphics as well as new-style-graphics? 15- Will people want to spend more than app-prices on the simple games? I hope there can be positive answers to these! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vectrexroli Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Some of those questions were covered in the All Gen Gamers Podcast: http://www.allgengamers.com/home/2015/3/3/episode-190-the-retro-vgs.html From my experience with bigger complex projects not all the details will be known yet and I guess the people behind it still might change some specs over time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I like how the podcast says this system (with carts) will be around with its games when today's DLC and online consoles won't be working anymore. And that this would be system to buy if you want to play your games 15 years later. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I like how the podcast says this system (with carts) will be around with its games when today's DLC and online consoles won't be working anymore. And that this would be system to buy if you want to play your games 15 years later. Since the vast majority of gamers who have large digital collections on PC, console, and handhelds don't give that a second thought, that's not really a selling point in my opinion. There's really only a niche of a niche that genuinely worry about having physical copies of things and looking beyond whatever the current generation of systems is. It's also arguable whether the types of games they want to get on that system, e.g., indie darlings like Braid, The Binding of Isaac, etc., which already appear on a dozen or more platforms and/or services, are really in danger of going away or not being available to those who still want to play them. Again, I wish them the best, but coming up with a genuine value proposition for enough gamers is going to be exceedingly difficult, particularly when relatively well funded and relatively high profile attempts in a similar vein, a la, Ouya, more or less failed, and this project has far more going against it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 For me, the cost of the games will likely be an issue. Take the older 8-bit consoles for example (CV, INTV, A2600). Here are the options: 1. You can buy a bunch of cheap games for $1-3 each. 2. You can buy a multi-cart to play all the classics and some homebrews for less than $150. 3. You can buy homebrews for about $20-$80 each. If you have a bit of money, but not too much, you can just stick with #1, or if you have a bit more, go with #2. If you have money to spare, you can add #3. For this new console, I'm guessing options #1 and #2 won't be available, and I'm guessing you won't see homebrews for less than $40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 @Keatah:The Day 1 patch mentality is sadly here to stay, once publishers realised the vast majority were just going to 'deal with it' rather than vote with wallets, doors were opened, now it's day 1 patches, patches to fix issues previous patches caused. The size of day 1 patches for XB1/PS4 alone have killed all my interest in picking up a console anytime soon.I'd be over my fair usage policy before i knew it at this rate and i'm not upgrading (ie paying more) to BT just to make allowances for unfinished software hitting the streets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Maybe they could write the games on smartcards. If they (blank ones) are mass produced, they wont be very expensive I guess. Also, shipping smartcards is as expensive as shipping a letter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) The way I see gaming is that we have several classifications: 1- Online and internet required drm/dlc laden gaming at home via PC and Consoles. 2- Mobile gaming. $0.99 apps or in-game purchases. 3- The traditional classic retro console with real cartridges that's 20+ years old. 4- Flashback style mini-consoles. 5- Serious high-dollar $5k and up PC simulation market. 6- Classic system emulation. The top 2 items comprise 96% or more of what is being sold today and probably for the future. Anything else is just a niche market which always has highly discriminating buyers. Flashbacks, original consoles, and emulation are the 3 most popular ways to experience the classics of yore. Try as I might I'm not sure I see another method. Somewhere in there is the dying market of handhelds like the DS and Vita and PSP. The function these served is being taken away by smartphones. Let me add that when it comes to the original classics like Defender, Asteroids, Pole Position - games of that era; we seem to have several options for playing: 1- The original via emulation. 2- The original via original hardware. 3- Modern day re-writes and re-releases. 4- Clones, look-alikes, play-alikes. I would only go for emulation, I even prefer it over the original hardware because of age, availability, reliability and other personal reasons. But that's me. I have little interest in remakes. Remakes tend to lose a lot in gameplay. I'm not willing to give that away, not even for snazzier sprites. Edited March 28, 2015 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Maybe they could write the games on smartcards. If they (blank ones) are mass produced, they wont be very expensive I guess. Also, shipping smartcards is as expensive as shipping a letter. Maybe. I got the impression they wanted big and bulky carts for a retro-feel. But being big and bulky by itself doesn't mean retro. So I don't know what's going to happen here. @Keatah:The Day 1 patch mentality is sadly here to stay, once publishers realised the vast majority were just going to 'deal with it' rather than vote with wallets, doors were opened, now it's day 1 patches, patches to fix issues previous patches caused. The size of day 1 patches for XB1/PS4 alone have killed all my interest in picking up a console anytime soon.I'd be over my fair usage policy before i knew it at this rate and i'm not upgrading (ie paying more) to BT just to make allowances for unfinished software hitting the streets. Yep! This is the number one reason why I never baggie-chase modern day systems. I fear that in 5 years games I play today won't be available anymore. Or at least not all of the accompanying DLC. Then you have to deal with activations and authentications. I'm just not interested in that. There is no reason why you can't market a game and have it working correctly out of the box. We did it years ago. And with the enormous budget available today we should be able to do it again. But it seems the game companies got stupid somewhere along the way. Eventually there will be daily updates, then hourly, then real-time. Your internet connection becomes a pipe into a development lab. When is there time to build a library and enjoy the games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Patches to 'improve' reported issues on the MP/Online aspects of games after players flag up things like waiting ages in a lobby, getting kicked out of a game for no reason, or fixing things like Auto Saves that corrupt, then i can accept, things slip through the testing procudure, deadlines etc etc... But...the industry (and general gaming public it seems) now seem 'happy' with this..ship now, fix later mentality, to point where (if i read it right) games are shipping with Day 1 patches that allow you to actual get the online side to activate, to put in texture packs etc etc... And whilst i've not been following the story, what was the deal with XB1 Halo Collection? seemed to have a few big patches to fix the online side, yet online play has been such a key aspect of Halo since Halo 2 on Xbox, i'd have thought it'd had everything in place... Then there's PS4 Club Drive, which was heavily delayed and i'd lead to believe 'only now' after numerous patches is the game it was intended to be?. Madness.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Cool video, related to the vgs: https://vimeo.com/120202223 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Cool video, related to the vgs: https://vimeo.com/120202223 Missed this earlier. That video is really interesting stuff for a Jaguar fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) Hey Guys! I just wanted to address the cartridge pricing. We will be doing all manufacturing of both the consoles and cartridges here in the USA (PCB's however, will be contract manufactured and arrive to our facility as a sub assembly), under our own roof, in Southern California. Carts will be priced based on the games that are on them. For example, a new game from a fledgling indie or homebrew developer might be priced $19.99 while a popular franchise sequel might be $40-$50 depending on licensing costs mainly! And everything inbetween. So the short answer are carts will be priced from $19.99 to $49.99. We are targeting the console to be $149.99. The retail box will include the console with four controller ports ( x 2 USB for the x 2 pack-in controllers and x 2 9-Pin ports for classic controllers), a pack-in game (possibly up to three pack-in games only for Kickstarter buyers), HDMI cable (and possibly composite and/or S-Video too) and AC Adapter. There is a small chance this might have to price out at $179.99 based on system hardware which will be a gamers and developers delight. . . . but doing all we can to try and stay at that $150 price point. More details will be revealed about system hardware and development criteria soon. Edited April 8, 2015 by Parrothead 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 More details will be revealed about system hardware and development criteria soon. Good stuff. It seems like you're offering a strong value proposition there for the intended market, so nice to see that part is more or less in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Tarzilla Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Hey Guys! I just wanted to address the cartridge pricing. We will be doing all manufacturing of both the consoles and cartridges here in the USA (PCB's however, will be contract manufactured and arrive to our facility as a sub assembly), under our own roof, in Southern California. Carts will be priced based on the games that are on them. For example, a new game from a fledgling indie or homebrew developer might be priced $19.99 while a popular franchise sequel might be $40-$50 depending on licensing costs mainly! And everything inbetween. So the short answer are carts will be priced from $19.99 to $49.99. We are targeting the console to be $149.99. The retail box will include the console with four controller ports ( x 2 USB for the x 2 pack-in controllers and x 2 9-Pin ports for classic controllers), a pack-in game (possibly up to three pack-in games only for Kickstarter buyers), HDMI cable (and possibly composite and/or S-Video too) and AC Adapter. There is a small chance this might have to price out at $179.99 based on system hardware which will be a gamers and developers delight. . . . but doing all we can to try and stay at that $150 price point. More details will be revealed about system hardware and development criteria soon. I think what a lot of us interested developers want to really know is: What is the hardware based on? We see Gamester81's video of Tiny Knight already running so is the system Android based, PC based, or something else? Is the target screen resolution 1920x1080 or are there different screen resolutions available? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Iacovelli Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Hey Guys! I just wanted to address the cartridge pricing. We will be doing all manufacturing of both the consoles and cartridges here in the USA (PCB's however, will be contract manufactured and arrive to our facility as a sub assembly), under our own roof, in Southern California. Carts will be priced based on the games that are on them. For example, a new game from a fledgling indie or homebrew developer might be priced $19.99 while a popular franchise sequel might be $40-$50 depending on licensing costs mainly! And everything inbetween. So the short answer are carts will be priced from $19.99 to $49.99. We are targeting the console to be $149.99. The retail box will include the console with four controller ports ( x 2 USB for the x 2 pack-in controllers and x 2 9-Pin ports for classic controllers), a pack-in game (possibly up to three pack-in games only for Kickstarter buyers), HDMI cable (and possibly composite and/or S-Video too) and AC Adapter. There is a small chance this might have to price out at $179.99 based on system hardware which will be a gamers and developers delight. . . . but doing all we can to try and stay at that $150 price point. More details will be revealed about system hardware and development criteria soon. I think you should leave out the s-video since the newer sets don't even have it anymore and is more for hdmi. I'm interested in being an homebrew game devolper for t to post my 2600 (and soon 7800 and jaguar) games to retro vgs. you mentioned the e-mail in an a chat last week but wasn't interested but getting interested bit by bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhd Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Will it be available in Canada -- either at retail, or is your firm willing/able to ship internationally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wongojack Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I really wish I could be excited about this. ParrotHead's update kinda gets me interested, but honestly, I kinda like digital downloads and cheap options for "indie" type games. I used to have a rule that I wouldn't pay more than $24.99 for any game because by the time I get around to playing it the price is always below $25. These days that has changed to where I almost never pay more than $10-$15 for a game because they drop so fast in price, and I don't have time to play them anyway. I do make exceptions for some homebrews or really big releases that me and my wife will both play, but as the backlog grows my pricepoint drops. That being said, the prices here aren't that high. If there was some sort of killer exclusive on this console then that could draw me in. Maybe a long awaited true sequel to something like Combat, AD&D Cloudy Mountain, or Robotron could get me interested, but it would have to be a true must have like the D2K release for Intv. Also, you cannot leave networking off of this thing. You are going to wish over and over that you put it on. I realize updates cause friction for some, but you need the ability to network with this thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) I would be interested I think, but two things dissuade me. First, I am not a fan of those wireless controllers, don't like them at all. I realize the system should be able to accept other users' controllers though. The bigger sticking point for me is the re-use of the Jaguar molds. The console and cart shells IMO are unnecessarily large, and frankly the system was butt ugly. Not to mention the carts had NO end labels. Really wish they'd gone with a new design. Edited April 8, 2015 by Greg2600 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerSpaceFan Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I've got no problem with buying carts of new games for the prices Mike lists, totally fine with that. What I do have a problem with is waiting several weeks for my game to arrive in the mail. Compared to digital downloads which are instantaneous it's a bitter pill to swallow. Heck even going to brick and mortar shops to buy a game is preferable because I know I'll be playing that new game the same day. Will I buy much if I have to wait weeks at a time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubxcube Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Seems liken he biggest issues I've heard people have complaints about fall under the "1st world problem" category... Some people don't like the jaguar mold because it's either too big, or they hated the jaguar. Seems a fair trade to get a truly new retro system at a reasonable price. That mold saves them- and thus us- a TON of money in startup costs... Some people don't like wireless controllers- I get that, but the announcement has been made for a 9 prong plug in ability as well to use third party controllers if that's your choice.... And people not liking the possibility of having to wait for their purchase to have their order shipped to them in the mail for 3-5 days or so? The horror!! (Not referring to any posters in here specifically, but in general, as I've read similar complaints in several places) I'm impressed at how the developers of this idea have really gone all out to think of every conceivable optiona. Of course it won't be 100% perfect, but what system is. I'm very excited- this will be my first kickstarter support, and won't be the last as I will support developers who kickstart games for the system... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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