How has this not been posted yet? Retro VGS

[PlaysWithWolves]

You're thinking in terms of titles that are RVGS exclusives. RVGS would just be one of possibly several income streams for a game maker.

[phoenixdownita]

... nope, given they have specialized hardware and special cartridges I am afraid whatever you do on other consoles won't help much when budgeting for the RVGS.

If all you're going to get is a lame ass backward port I ensure you no FPGA is ever going to be used hence no exclusive hence easier/cheaper way to play the same game somewhere else hence no need for RVGS.

[GroovyBee]

You're thinking in terms of titles that are RVGS exclusives. RVGS would just be one of possibly several income streams for a game maker.

Nope! Not unless the system comes with the following support:-

• OpenGL(ES) and SDL.
• stdlib and boost.
• USB stack that recognises HID devices.
• Graphics management libraries e.g. png, bmp, jpeg, gif etc.
• Sound engine that handles MP3s, multi-channel wave files.
• Multi-thread handling kernel.
• Plenty of other library type things I've forgotten .

For tools :-

• C++/C compiler with a full set of header files.
• Decent host debugger like GDB (preferably with an IDE).
• A quick way to deploy to target e.g. USB drive.
• Profiler.

Without those lists it won't get any major or side-line games. Nobody these days wants to write a heap manager, a USB stack, string handling etc. It all has to be there straight out of the box. If it isn't there it won't get a look in.

[PlaysWithWolves]

You guys are drunk. Let me know when you sober up. Or pass the bottle.

 

Art, music and level design would be done unless any particular conversions had to be made. They said they have tools for C++, so I'm presuming it won't take a total rewrite for that either. Several of the games that are getting ported to are already multi-platform. At least one is PC/Mac-only.

 

I guess you're welcome to call the RVGS team liars, but presuming they're not: If PC/OSX/Linux game Read Only Memories can be ported to RVGS then that counts as multiple revenue streams.

[GroovyBee]

I guess you're welcome to call the RVGS team liars, but presuming they're not: If PC/OSX/Linux game Read Only Memories can be ported to RVGS then that counts as multiple revenue streams.

You've seen it running on the RVGS? Nope, didn't think so. What do those OS's all have in common for game development? Lets see... standard libraries e.g. stdlib/boost, OpenGL, SDL, compliant USB stack, file system, pre-emptive multi-taskig/multi-threaded kernel, mature tools, excellent debuggers and so on.

[PlaysWithWolves]

You've seen it running on the RVGS? Nope, didn't think so.

 

So in other words, there's three people who are arguing over something (the RVGS console and tools) they have know idea about. Man, I must be on the Internet!

 

I mean their whole business model is literally based on importing other games to their systems --the very definition of multiple revenue streams. Only Tiny Knight Adventures is unique to RVGS and it's the pack-in game.

 

But, I'm not going to argue about it any more if the whole discussion boils down to whether or not someone believes the RVGS team.

[phoenixdownita]

Not arguing with you, just with the statement that 7K is a viable userbase even if the port was easy and cheap which it hardly ever is if you care to use the underlying hardware proper.

 

Who will want to port just for the sake of porting unless there's a reasonable userbase, and porting is not going to be for free given just their special media which if limited in size will force downsampling all over the place (music, gfx, texture, effects etc...) and hence rethinking of a lot of the game look and feel to get it right [no haphazardly dropping every other line and column of pixels does not count as the right way to reduce a rich texture 4x], likely this is the reason for needing bigger carts.

Still at 7K users unless you can port it in a week from end to end and carts are virtually for free, there's not enough meat really for a studio to go after. They still need to promote the thing and get some stock of ready to sell cart somewhere, you know in case someone buys it and that is upfront costs in labor, material, rental for space, distribution etc... but I am sure they thought this through ... likely there's a special lime green truck for the deliveries on Tuesdays.

 

Small indie developers may be interested as long as they can control distribution, but alas due to the need to be in cartridge form they will face a barrier there, are they supposed to send their work on a floppy over to them or gosh upload it somewhere so that it can be eventually put into a cart?

Given also RVGS team statement that they want to avoid dilution, likely they will want to control "quality" to limit the number of games [their words] and that is a double edge sword.

 

In the end next summer we will see what came out of all this, but the fact that they are making up excuses that this is not only about building the HW but also building up a company makes me believe they are not really sure about what they are doing .... what the heck were they thinking it would happen? People magically materializing at their garage to pick up their fancy colored Jag enclosed hot air filled consoles? Of course you need to build a company/legitimate business if you want to sell something legally.

Edited September 1, 2015 by phoenixdownita

[Andromeda Stardust]

True. I'm sceptical and I wish to be proven wrong.

 

The communication about this system could really be better. I really don't care about the colors and the fact that is uses jaguar shells, and that they saved money by using those (so the system would be even more expensive without the Jaguar molds?). Also I'm not sure what the system has to do with 'Retro'. When I think of a new retro system, I would expect an upgraded Atari 2600 (yes, including all those handy switches, and one fire button ).

Nah. My idea of a "retro" console is a souped up NES, maybe 4x the clock speed, more RAM, tons more sprites and colors...

 

Oh wait, that's been made already. It's called a Turbografx!

[Austin]

No one making games for a mainstream system right now is going to bother with this thing. They have bigger fish to fry elsewhere (as the saying goes) and it would be reckless to allocate resources for RVGS projects, at the install base they are currently predicting.

[+madman]

This is off topic, but then again this entire topic is off topic aside from determining that the Jag fumes lie in the casing molds. This whole Internet panhandling, err, crowd funding is completely silly. All of the risk is taken by the backers where NOTHING is guaranteed. The person/people receiving the funding have EVERYTHING to gain and absolutely nothing to lose. Let's say RVGS gets $2.5 mil and totally screws up the product and launch. They aren't legally entitled to give you anything. I know an acquaintance who raised about $25,000 and never gave out any of the rewards, including to someone who contributed $10,000.

 

Before anyone points the finger at me, I'm NOT saying this is what RVGS is trying to do. I'm simply saying this model allows full reward for success with absolutely zero risk on their part.

 

I'll leave with this rather appropriate section of the Kickstarter FAQ:

 

How do backers know if a project will follow through? Backers should look for creators who share a clear plan for how their project will be completed, and who have a history of bringing their creative ventures and other projects to fruition. Creators are encouraged to share links and as much background information as possible so backers can make informed decisions about the projects they support.

If a creator has no demonstrable experience in doing something like their project or doesn't share key information, backers should take that into consideration. Does the creator include links to any websites that show work related to the project, or past projects? Does the creator appear in the video? Have they connected via Facebook?

[Austin]

Good Kickstarters typically have some kind of existing, functional product to show to instill confidence, be it in the form of an alpha build (for software) or some kind of prototype (physical hardware). I'll be shocked if the RVGS guys end up having anything other than a fancy plastic shell when they begin their campaign. "Ooooh, check out these awesome shiny colors! Now give us your money!"

[+madman]

Good Kickstarters typically have some kind of existing, functional product to show to instill confidence, be it in the form of an alpha build (for software) or some kind of prototype (physical hardware). I'll be shocked if the RVGS guys end up having anything other than a fancy plastic shell when they begin their campaign. "Ooooh, check out these awesome shiny colors! Now give us your money!"

Yeah, I've seen a few over the years that looked cool with actual products. The only crowd funding I've done is for a book, that is already written, that the author had to self publish. I get a copy of the book, that's fair. I'm not going to pay $350 for a Kickstarter that doesn't even show any actual physical product, let alone is sparse on actual detail and is still changing (hey guys, how about a JAMMA port?). After $2.5 mil they can say, "LOL spent the $2.5 mil, turns out we don't know what the hell we are doing. Thx for the money k bye."

[Austin]

Yeah, I'm going to be really surprised if they can even get $250,000 from this, let alone 2.5 million. It's quite absurd.

[+madman]

Can't wait to see the action now that this has been moved. Non-Jag forum visitors have some catching up to do.

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

2.5 million? LOL it's looking like a huge scam................

[+CyranoJ]

Can't wait to see the action now that this has been moved. Non-Jag forum visitors have some catching up to do.

 

Wait till those friendly 7800/Inty types see it

[+CyranoJ]

 

Perhaps a couple of professional experienced developers can comment on how working with this system is different than, say, one of 30 years ago.

 

 

The 30 year old systems actually exist.

[phoenixdownita]

Wow, normally this topic was having 6-10 viewing users at most in the Jag section, now it bounced to 24 .... yippi.

The topic has found its match.

[Reaperman]

...

At first, I had many, many questions.

I've concluded that the answer to all of them can only be: "because Jaguar fans..."

 

This is stupid--even for the internet.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Reaperman

[roland p]

Nah. My idea of a "retro" console is a souped up NES, maybe 4x the clock speed, more RAM, tons more sprites and colors...

 

Oh wait, that's been made already. It's called a Turbografx!

I do think the Turbografx is a sort of sweet spot of gaming, it has that 8-Bit charm and nice graphics. MSX2 is another favorite of mine btw.

 

I was browsing for the 65816 (16-bit 6502) and I found this http://hackaday.com/2012/09/01/homebrew-computer-is-16-bits-of-awesome/interesting as a 'new' retro console:

 

- 65816 should be an easy target for 6502 coders.

- I guess you could code in C, but assembly should not be too hard too. So within 50 years, when this console is still around (that's the idea right?) coders of the future still have something to train their brains on

- Easy to interface with a rom card.

- Architecture of this system is probably very simple.

 

I'm not sure what can be used as a video processor...

[+madman]

...

At first, I had many, many questions.

I've concluded that the answer to all of them can only be: "because Jaguar fans..."

[PlaysWithWolves]

Before anyone points the finger at me, I'm NOT saying this is what RVGS is trying to do. I'm simply saying this model allows full reward for success with absolutely zero risk on their part.

 

 

I didn't quote your whole post, but I agree with it all. I hope my other posts on KS properly expressed similar concerns.

Even books aren't immune to problems: Comic Artist Raises $50k for Books, Then Just Burns Them (apologies if I posted that earlier).

 

I don't work for RVGS or even necessarily want the product; I'm just interested enough in it where I'd like to see a fair discussion about the console. Though if Parrothead has given up on this thread, perhaps I should too.

 

As you and Austin both have said, they need a prototype. In fact, it probably should have debuted at the past weekend's expo.

[Draikar]

So many here hate this system if you don't like the Retro VGS then don't support them. Some here seem to act as if they have a personal grudge against Mike Kennedy or John Carlsen.

 

I'm starting to think some of you work for Microsoft or Nintendo, I think some have said they hope to see it this system fail, what's wrong with a new game system ? I say more the better.

[+madman]

I'm starting to think some of you work for Microsoft or Nintendo, I think some have said they hope to see it this system fail, what's wrong with a new game system ? I say more the better.

Yep, we are shills from Microsoft. Microsoft is very concerned that the RVGS will kill the XBox One and Microsoft will have to pull a Sega and remove itself from the hardware market. All future video game development efforts from Microsoft will be targeted at the RVGS platform.

[cimerians]

There's no hate for it but when it comes to MY money I'm very selective of who I give it to. People have gotten burned on stuff when things are 'promised' and not delivered. Nothing wrong with pointing out all these pitfalls. It may sound like hate but to me it isn't, its just being cautious/smart etc.