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How has this not been posted yet? Retro VGS


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#3626 jaybird3rd OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 6, 2015 6:11 PM

Is it too soon to be the ghost of the Retro VGS for halloween?

Just hang random circuit boards and wires all over yourself and balance an old CRT monitor on your head, and you can be John Carlsen's kitchen table workbench.



#3627 5-11under OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 6, 2015 6:14 PM

Just hang random circuit boards and wires all over yourself and balance an old CRT monitor on your head, and you can be John Carlsen's kitchen table workbench.

 

You'll need an old scope on your head, too. Don't worry, they're not heavy.



#3628 jaybird3rd OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 6, 2015 6:17 PM

You'll need an old scope on your head, too. Don't worry, they're not heavy.

I was about to say that!  The one in the video looked like an old Tektronix oscilloscope, circa 1986 (I've got one of those).  That and the CRT stacked together would really give you the full effect.

#3629 CPUWIZ OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 6, 2015 6:23 PM

I have 2 older 20Mhz scopes from the 90's, one is a Tektronix and the other is a Yamaha, paid far too much money for them back then.  They are fine for Atari tinkering though.  Anyone want to buy either? LOL



#3630 InnovaX5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 6, 2015 6:49 PM

Just hang random circuit boards and wires all over yourself and balance an old CRT monitor on your head, and you can be John Carlsen's kitchen table workbench.

John Carlsen's Retro VGS kitchen table workbench laboratory



#3631 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 6, 2015 8:19 PM

Is it too soon to be the ghost of the Retro VGS for halloween?

Well you can always dress as a jaguar... :P

jaguar-cartoon-mascot-costume-for-adult-


Edited by stardust4ever, Tue Oct 6, 2015 8:19 PM.


#3632 toiletunes OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 6, 2015 9:05 PM

Well you can always dress as a jaguar... :P

jaguar-cartoon-mascot-costume-for-adult-

Is that costume available in different colors?



#3633 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 6, 2015 9:09 PM

Is that costume available in different colors?

Nope. You can buy any color you want, as long as it's jaguar print! ;)



#3634 PlaysWithWolves OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 6, 2015 9:21 PM

This seems fitting.  Plus, it's translucent!

 

morgue-costume-352cecc1.jpg

 

 



#3635 Gentlegamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 6, 2015 11:20 PM

How would one represent a dumpster fire in costume form?



#3636 Parrothead OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 12:07 AM

I said I was not going to come back into this thread, but as you all can agree, AtariAge and this thread are a hard habit to break.  Anyway, I wanted to chime back in on a few things in light of our current situation.  Unlike the So Cal Mike from the past, I will try and be a bit more concise:

 

1)  As you have heard (and discussed) in our most recent team interview there was discord among the team.  Since bringing John on board this product started becoming incredibly expensive.  It was actually up to $450-$500 (selling price at one point).  Obviously, that was NEVER going to fly so Steve and I did what we could to try and work with John to understand why the cost and selling price became to excessive.  Once we decided to eliminate the need for RVGS to "handle" Neo Geo size cores/games (coming through the FPGA), the price then lowered a bit, but not nearly enough.  We then went back and forth amongst the team to include or not include an FPGA big enough to handle the existing 8-Bit cores thinking without it the price would come down even more, but at the expense of losing the magic of the FPGA.  But even after removing the FPGA or using a small one for other "housekeeping" applications (John's words) the price just never came down to a price point Steve and I were comfortable with (it bottomed out at the $299-$350 you saw on the IGG campaign).

 

2)  Regarding Kevtris (and PIKO too).  Honestly, since we had been waffling on whether or not to include the FPGA leading up to a crowdfunding campaign, I didn't want to waste any more of their time.  In the end, Kevin did understand that we would contract with him to license his existing 8-bit cores and also help finance his creation of 16-bit cores for our use and the community's use ONLY if we had a successfully funded campaign that included a capable FPGA.  We didn't toss him out in any way, shape or form and I apologize to Kevin for how I handled his comments, which took our team by surprise and were a bit out of the blue.  And, should RVGS have a successful ending, I hope we can work with him to license his cores in the future.  In the end, I do believe our products will be two completely different kinds of machines and can exist together if the two of us are able to make our machines a reality.

 

3)  Regarding PiperCub (Scott Schreiber).  Yes, he was a confidant, friend and podcast co-host with me for years when I came to him with my idea to create a new cartridge based console.  I valued his input and advice and he also knew Curt Vendel, someone who I initially wanted to design the hardware.  Scott hooked us up and Curt and I discussed this very early on and he indicated he didn't have the time (and was also battling for his life) so he had to bow out of the running as lead engineer.  I then moved on to two other very capable hardware guys who worked with Steve and I in the beginning, even to the point of having an operating prototype.  This was all before Steve had the idea of integrating an FPGA (and also before a few other additions like the various output methods and 9-Pin controller ports (all things we are striving to include should it not break the bank).

 

4)  Fast forward to the present.  Yes, we pulled the IGG campaign and agree it should have NEVER been turned on in the first place.  Prior to pulling the campaign John took it upon himself to light up his famous table prototype video (without any heads up to Steve or myself).  At first, Steve and I were taken by surprise, but his attempt at showing a prototype did garner some positive sentiment among the natives so I thought we dodged a bullet there.  In the end, I think it did more harm than good and wish it never got posted.  But John is a very good guy and very capable engineer.  But somehow this product grew into a three headed monster with him at the hardware helm.  And I am not saying this was all his fault.  John did his best to engineer the machine Steve and I had envisioned from the start.  It just got completely out of hand on many accounts and we all take the blame for that.

 

5)  Steve Woita.  Steve is awesome ( I hope you can all agree with that) and he and I are on great terms and want to see RVGS to a positive end, whether that means a successfully funded campaign with a cool product you all might want OR if it dies out gracefully after given a true chance to succeed.  Only time will tell where this story will end.

 

6)  Back to #3.  The good news is that our team all still agrees that having the FPGA in its fullest form is a good thing and are doing what we can to continue to include that bit of hardware in the design. We are hard at a work to complete the prototype that was begun early on in this venture and I am trying to stay out of the hardware side of things at this point so they can do their job and engineer some cool tech that doesn't cost you all an arm and a leg.  That was never our intention with RVGS.  If and when you hear from us again it will be with a playable prototype in hand.

 

7) Apologies.  Hey, I think we can all agree this thread had both constructive criticism, which my team and I welcomed and also personal attacks which we didn't.  I didn't mean to group everyone into any negative comments I made with regards to AA or its members.  But there were a few comments that really rubbed me the wrong way and I let my emotions get the best of me.  For what it's worth, I am sorry and certainly didn't mean any ill will toward the majority of the people here or on any other forum (or on Facebook) for that matter.  Much of the criticism was valuable and I think we now know how to bring a viable product to market with a price point that most will agree with.  But again, it's a balancing act trying to please as many people as possible while also trying to keep the price affordable. 

 

Now all I ask is that you give my team a fair shot to win back your trust with our second effort that will go long way to address the concerns from the final weeks leading up to the IGG campaign.  We will have a playable prototype and it will be on Kickstarter.  Will there be some changes to the game lineup?  Sure, we will be working on fleshing out the initial game launch list once we have all agreed on the hardware and the price point. 

 

Carry on . . . . .

 

- Mike

 

EDIT:  Oh, one other thing.  I've discussed with our campaign rep at IGG about ending the campaign and they said they would look into it but for now it's still live.  If you happen to still have your money tied up there, please go in and demand a refund asap.  Here is a link discussing how and where to request this:  https://support.indi...t-my-money-back-


Edited by Parrothead, Wed Oct 7, 2015 9:52 AM.


#3637 CyranoJ OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 12:09 AM

I said....

 

- Mike

 

tl;dr

 

Simple as that.



#3638 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 12:25 AM

Thanks for your post, Mike. It's nice to see you directly address some of the issues people have been discussing. I look forward to following your progress as you develop your new hardware and ultimately a prototype.

..Al

#3639 StopDrop&Retro OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 12:40 AM

I wouldn't be so fascinated with this if I didn't care. I can't wait for more news.



#3640 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 12:53 AM

Mistakes have been made. Lessons have been learned. I even discovered a few things during the course of following this thread.

 

If round 2 looks better, then, sure, we'll be interested again.


Edited by Keatah, Wed Oct 7, 2015 12:58 AM.


#3641 dashv OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 2:56 AM

I said I was not going to come back into this thread
 
- Mike
 


Thanks for the insights. Coming back could not have been easy.
+100 balls of steel

Giving an authentic and personal apology also not easy.
+1,000,000 respect

It's great that you stepped forward like this. Some would argue you didn't have to, but the fact that you did says a lot both about you and the project.

#3642 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 3:19 AM

Well it has been quite a drama keeping up with this thread.

 

Parrothead, I just want to let you know that I would still love for the console to succeed. Sometimes people need to start over with a clean slate. Well, now that you and your team admitted you made a mistake by misjudging the market, there is nowhere to go but forward from here.

 

Much like vinyl records, there is something inherently special about carts and physical media in general. I like to believe they will make a comeback, whether through the RetroVGS or elsewhere.

 

Cheers! :)



#3643 fdurso224 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 3:44 AM

Hi Mike

 

Glad to hear that you came back and help clarify some of the concerns here on the forums. I still will like to participate in the RVGS.  Hope it has a bright future and will make a rebound during your second showing of the unit!. Will be thrilled to see how the new marketing concept be in the future regarding it!

 

More power/respect for the straightforward, man up apology to the community as well!  :)

 

Anthony...



#3644 Mord ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 4:06 AM

Much like vinyl records, there is something inherently special about carts and physical media in general. I like to believe they will make a comeback, whether through the RetroVGS or elsewhere.
 

 

In a way I'm slightly surprised modern consoles haven't attempted to go back to a cartridge type format.  With one of the big complaints with them tending to be how dated the hardware becomes so soon after launch, returning to a cartridge type of setup to boost actual system performance in the later half of the system's life would give it a little breathing room. Of course, how to do it "properly" and economically would be some of the big stumbling blocks on this approach.



#3645 roland p OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 4:15 AM

In a way I'm slightly surprised modern consoles haven't attempted to go back to a cartridge type format.  With one of the big complaints with them tending to be how dated the hardware becomes so soon after launch, returning to a cartridge type of setup to boost actual system performance in the later half of the system's life would give it a little breathing room. Of course, how to do it "properly" and economically would be some of the big stumbling blocks on this approach.

You could have a memory card which includes flashrom and a key. The key let's you download the latest version, which could then be stored on the flashrom. But then the game is resellable, that's not what game publishers want.

#3646 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 4:21 AM

But you can tie a cartridge to a specific system. Now you have the best of both worlds.

 

ADDED:

In today's climate cartridges are bulky and expensive compared to DLC though.


Edited by Keatah, Wed Oct 7, 2015 4:22 AM.


#3647 AE35 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 4:23 AM

I wouldn't be so fascinated with this if I didn't care. I can't wait for more news.

 

You know what I can't wait for? My wife asks every day "did that guy make another video?"

 

..and I have to answer "no, he did not" 

 

About Mikes post, yes, it is something that he returns to this thread of all places. We are all bleeding hearts for that sort of thing. But really, let the RVGS go. Everybody is talking about a second run at a KS or IGG with revised ideas imported from RetrolandTM, maybe next time and so forth. With 7 billion people in the world, somebody else will come up with another product in the 'retro-vein'. Why does it have to come back for a second round?

 

Come on, this isn't just about the hardware. It is about every single statement from Mike Kennedy just being wrong. Broken games is not a huge problem, especially for the potiental buyers who probably plays Nintendo games on their Wii U - and Nintendo seldom ships broken games. Mike talking of sales numbers in the 100.000 the first year. Everything was high-five speak, microphone holding and untruths. Personally, I want a tech-guy to be in charge of a product like this.

 

Problem: Broken games and patches

Solution: Going back to cartridges

 

It's just not a right approach. If you don't have legs, then you won't get cancer in them! Solution? Call Dr. Mike to schedule an operation.

 

 

Sorry, Mike. I think you should drop that project completely and make another project later.

 

/Nicholas


Edited by AE35, Wed Oct 7, 2015 4:27 AM.


#3648 PlaysWithWolves OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 4:32 AM

Now all I ask is that you give my team a fair shot to win back your trust with our second effort that will go long way to address the concerns from the final weeks leading up to the IGG campaign.  We will have a playable prototype and it will be on Kickstarter.  Will there be some changes to the game lineup?  Sure, we will be working on fleshing out the initial game launch list once we have all agreed on the hardware and the price point. 

 

It sounds like you're taking the right lessons from this, even if they were rough to learn.  I hope you can equally understand how you, your team, and the project was perceived throughout this.  You know what is in your heart; the rest of us (those who don't know you personally) only can judge from what we see. 

 

Best of luck to you and your team.



#3649 Amstari OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 4:39 AM

The market for the Retro VGS was already small but after the first campaign it is even smaller.

 

This poll currently shows 65% of people wont back a second campaign. http://atariage.com/...page-?mode=show

 

It's good to have a dream but it needs to be realistic, have you done any real market research to show people really want this console? 



#3650 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 7, 2015 5:02 AM

The market for the Retro VGS was already small but after the first campaign it is even smaller.
 
This poll currently shows 65% of people wont back a second campaign. http://atariage.com/...page-?mode=show
 
It's good to have a dream but it needs to be realistic, have you done any real market research to show people really want this console?


I wouldn't give that poll too much consideration, if I were in Mike's place. That poll was conducted before the dust had a chance to settle, and people were still laughing along with the guys who made parody videos, and before Mike posted his update/explaination/apology in this tread. If anything, the poll simply demonstrates to Mike that he needs to get his act together and show us a finalized prototype for round 2. And this prototype better have some good specs that we can all get excited about or it isn't going to fly.




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