How has this not been posted yet? Retro VGS

[Pixelboy]

The internet, modern HDD, M-disc, and the concept of multiple copies in multiple locations on multiple media types (including future migration ops) is about the best goddamned package you can assemble for preserving classic videogames for the long haul. What good will several nicely preserved examples of mainboards in a museum be? No one can play them. And they are prone to metal breakdown, whiskers, and umpteen other weird modes of failure.

 

IDK.. Some of you have VCSes from 1977. That's great. They still work. I have my emulator stuff from 1990. That's great. It still works. Which will be around 100 years from now? 200 years from now? Does it matter?

Well, let me put it to you this way: A long time ago, guys like Beethoven, Bach, Chopin, Mozart and many others created musical masterpieces with the tools they had at the time (i.e. pen and paper). Orchestras composed of many musicians were assembled to play these pieces for people's entertainment. Later, mankind found ways to record these masterpieces onto mechanical (and later electrical and electronic) media, and suddenly people didn't need a live orchestra to listen to classical music anymore, they could listen to it in the privacy of their own homes. Today, you can listen to Beethoven's work with your living room sound system, which sounds as good as the room's acoustics allow.

 

But does that mean we don't need orchestras anymore? Sitting in a large room with many other people, and listening to a live orchestra playing Mozart is an entirely different experience than listening to a recording of the same music at home. And that's the reason why symphony orchestras still exist today.

 

Going back to video games, cartridges are part of a particular era of video game history. You can play the ROMs via emulation, but the experience is different from playing on the real original hardware. Good for you if it makes no difference to you, but it sure makes a difference to me: When you play on real hardware, there are no savestates, no software-based pause feature, and very few options for alternate controllers. You need to install the console between the TV and the chairs/sofa, and this means you need to set actual time aside to play the darn game.

 

Emulation provides a distilled experience that can be interrupted and resumed at any time, and ironically, that's the very reason why I can never play more than 10 minutes with any cart ROM under emulation, especially from the 16-bit era. I can play for a while, then I need to stop playing for whatever reason, so I save the game into a savestate file, and oftentimes I won't return to the game afterwards because I have other things to do, or other games I feel like playing. Since I know I'm not going to commit to a long game (like say a RPG) I won't even bother starting a game session in the first place.

 

Setting up a console in the living room means I have to put my PC/tablet/smartphone aside and put some quality time into playing a specific game on that console, with the proper controller. This is what I call a "video gaming experience", compared to what I would call "casual gaming" on other media. Setting all notions of nostalgia aside, I like carts for the fact that what I have in my hands is a solid, well-defined work of software craftsmanship. No patching, no downloadable extras that I won't even care about 5 years from now, just the core gaming experience delivered in a nice package, with a nice paper manual I can consult at any time. If any interesting extras can be added to the game, just make a sequel (or an expanded edition of the original game) in cartridge format!

[StopDrop&Retro]

 

You know what I can't wait for? My wife asks every day "did that guy make another video?"

 

..and I have to answer "no, he did not"

 

Hey! I'm working on it!

 

I've got most of the big things out of the way, after a few revisions it should be ready by tonight. In your time zone, you should be waking up to it. I'll send you a PM when it's out.

[CGQuarterly]

I don't really have anything to add to the discussion other that to say that I give Mike MAD props for coming back to talk to us. Says a lot about him.

[sh3-rg]

 

I don't recall lying or being misleading when talking about developers. Earlier this year I did have a two hour face-to-face meeting, at Konami's El Segundo HQ with Michael Rajna, Konami's Director of Marketing & Licenses. He is a big retro gamer and liked what we were doing. We discussed brining back some old Konami arcade IP in the form of new games (like Resogun did with Defender) on RVGS. He was all for it but indicated they would like to wait it out until the product got more fleshed out. He did kindly ask me to not discuss Konami's involvement until we a had signed deal. As I said this was early on and I was gauging interest and there was and is some legitimate interest here. I recall a post here from someone stating that "some people consider emailing a company PR person as being in discussions with ....." And that was certainly never the case with any of my contacts with any of the developers I said we talked with.

Well it's all about the games. If Konami made a Metal Gear for this system, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

 

If Konami CBA making games for systems with 20 million+ users, why would they go anywhere near RVGS? They've fucked the bed and are only interested in tugging the titties of their IP in any way possible that requires little to no effort - which is no doubt how Mike got through their door. No matter what went down with the meeting between him and the retro gaming fan Konami exec., nothing was and nothing will ever come of that. Don't delude yourself.

 

 

Maybe if RVGS has a coin slot and a guy can come and empty it every week, that might work...

 

Edited October 7, 2015 by sh3-rg

[leods]

Well, let me put it to you this way: A long time ago, guys like Beethoven, Bach, Chopin, Mozart and many others created musical masterpieces with the tools they had at the time (i.e. pen and paper). Orchestras composed of many musicians were assembled to play these pieces for people's entertainment. Later, mankind found ways to record these masterpieces onto mechanical (and later electrical and electronic) media, and suddenly people didn't need a live orchestra to listen to classical music anymore, they could listen to it in the privacy of their own homes. Today, you can listen to Beethoven's work with your living room sound system, which sounds as good as the room's acoustics allow.

 

I want you to just realyze that when moving from an orchestra playing live in a concert hall to a CD in your living room you're changing from a social experience, of live musicians playing something that will never be reproduced ever. When you're talking about moving from a digital game to a digital game played on another Computer you're not changing that much at all. Trying to revive arcades would be soemthing more in the ways of your example with Music.

 

The comparison you should be making is more in the way of the audiophile. Cause you can listen to Mozart's Music on a 300 bucks home Stereo, thats decent enough, and enjoy the Music, or you can Play it on a 5,000 Dollars audiophile Thing in a specially prepared room.

 

1: audiophiles are a small niche.

2: 80% of the gains are just Snob bullhit.

3: I'm a professional musician, and I don't really know many actual musitians who are audiophiles. They want to listen to Music, not to brag about hertz and build Quality. In short, if you really want to enjoy Mozart's art you don't really give a crap. If it's good enough it's good enough. It doesn't really Change your experience to have somehting slightly different. It's just People being anal.

 

Go to the Shoryuken Forums or to other places where actual professional Gamers come together, and you won't see too many People worried about perfect fidelity. World championsips are not being Held on arcade machines, they're done on consoles playing a port of the game.

 

As Long as gameplay is 100% accurate and the graphics are god enough, guess what? It's good enough.

 

And this is the Problem I have with all this Thing. You can say whatever you want. But a product shouldn't live off nostaligic Feelings, or These aesthetic subjective Feelings of superiority of something just "because".

 

I'm not saying you can't go around trying to sell somehting for nostalgia's sake. You just can't expect sane People to go around spreading the word about a Kickstarter product based of nostalgia Feelings. If that's all you got: "it runs cartridges", It'll be the same Problem all over again. No serious youtuber or media outlet is going to Support you, because when you add the hjard Facts it just doesn't make sense. Yo'll be left with the dreamers and believers only. and I doubt, even for 150 bucks, they're gonna be too many.

 

Now if you give me a great Controller, an atractive package, compelling games, or even something I can't even Thing of myself, but you just Show it to me and it's awesome, then this will work.

 

For 30 bucks a Pop I'll be investing in my Mega Drive collection, and have 0 reason to care about this or to tell anyone they should Support this.

 

See? I don't want this to be bad. I said it many times. I'd rather buy the underpowered stupid expensive RVGS than a PS4. But I DON'T have a PS4.

[001 Influence Device]

Giving these games additional "life" on a "new" system could open the market up and help all developers reach a market that before never existed. That is a really good thing! This was never meant as a replacement for the classic systems, but a new way to show a larger mass market that games like they love to play are still being made and there is a better way to play them than on glass touch screens. RVGS can bring these games to the forefront and out from just under the veil of forums like this.

 

Middleware like unity actually makes the platform insignificant. It is the same reason Microsoft went after Netscape or java in the past. They made windows insignificant. No reason to actually get windows if java or Netscape made the windows platform irrelevant as it wouldn't differentiate on anything compared to say linux or BeOS. Retro VGS is basically gonna have the same problem. Cartridges don't differentiate Retro VGS all that much. And retro-only console is like saying First Person Shooter only console. New platforms are already capable of playing them, can't really beat them on price and therefore you can't really beat them on installed base.

 

Instead, you guys can try to enhance gaming on the actual old consoles we grew up with. The stuff people in this community are actually nostalgic of. Shoot for a cross platform 8-bit toolset so homebrew developers can quickly develop games on the actual 8-bit systems. Get these systems online for multiplayer. Work with the community to achieve it. Ask people actually working on stuff like this and see what they need. Make it open so people wont have trust issues. Getting the best out of these old machines is fascinating. That's my opinion anyway.

[roland p]

If Konami CBA making games for systems with 20 million+ users, why would they go anywhere near RVGS?

Because I would buy their games

 

Seriously, I was trying to think about reasons to buy an RVGS. The hardware will be no problem, but the software will be. I don't see it happen. it takes serious effort (man-hours) to make a high quality title. Hours which could be put in console titles which generates more revenue. I think the way the RVGS could work is to make it very simple, like a toy, and then let the scene/enthousiast people hack around, like we do on the retro consoles. Something along the lines of the arduboy: https://www.arduboy.com (7,221 backers)

Edited October 7, 2015 by roland p

[Andromeda Stardust]

... Sorry to have to say it, but maybe you should reach out an olive branch to Pat the Nes Punk and Ian.

Stu

Olive branches also make good kindling for the forthcoming sacrificial RetroVGS bonfire!

[InnovaX5]

Sorry, Mike. The damage is done for me. Its cool you are sorry and it takes steel balls to come around here after the shit storm. I no longer trust you. When I look at you and your RETRO VGS team, I still see a dysfunctional circus. You used your one shot and failed. I don't care about round two and thanks to your effortless show of how poorly you run a business, I wouldn't donate a penny to the KS RVGS.

 

I don't believe a word you say anymore. You proved time and time again than you have no idea how to run a company (barely a magazine company, from what I've read). How do you plan on running a 2+ million dollar campaign? Lets pretend for a minute that the RVGS IGG was a smash hit and it raised 3.6 million dollars. Your budget was so poorly estimated that I'm sure you would find a way to burn through all that money and still have nothing to show to everyone who backed it. I'm not saying it was ever just a cash grab, I'm saying it was an insanely poorly thought out business plan executed by 3 guys who couldn't even speak to each other properly. I asked many questions on your facebook page and was only met with idiotic statements from your super-fans or question dodging from john carlsen. When I would go after your team of idiot fans with simpler questions or facts, they would attack me - the troll hater that I clearly am. RVGS was the first Facebook page I was banned from.

 

I wish you luck on your future endeavors. I will not be part of any of those and I am sure that I do not feel alone when it comes to that.

[Chris++]

And the negative douchebaggery continues ad nauseam for no defensible reason. After Mike has communicated his mistakes and apologies, further bad-mouthing says a great deal more about the critic than the target.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2015 by Chris++

[CGQuarterly]

Sorry, Mike. The damage is done for me. Its cool you are sorry and it takes steel balls to come around here after the shit storm. I no longer trust you. When I look at you and your RETRO VGS team, I still see a dysfunctional circus. You used your one shot and failed. I don't care about round two and thanks to your effortless show of how poorly you run a business, I wouldn't donate a penny to the KS RVGS.

 

I don't believe a word you say anymore. You proved time and time again than you have no idea how to run a company (barely a magazine company, from what I've read). How do you plan on running a 2+ million dollar campaign? Lets pretend for a minute that the RVGS IGG was a smash hit and it raised 3.6 million dollars. Your budget was so poorly estimated that I'm sure you would find a way to burn through all that money and still have nothing to show to everyone who backed it. I'm not saying it was ever just a cash grab, I'm saying it was an insanely poorly thought out business plan executed by 3 guys who couldn't even speak to each other properly. I asked many questions on your facebook page and was only met with idiotic statements from your super-fans or question dodging from john carlsen. When I would go after your team of idiot fans with simpler questions or facts, they would attack me - the troll hater that I clearly am. RVGS was the first Facebook page I was banned from.

 

I wish you luck on your future endeavors. I will not be part of any of those and I am sure that I do not feel alone when it comes to that.

 

This entire post was completely unnecessary. If you don't want to support the RetroVGS, then just don't. If you would support it if certain things were done, then say so. But to say that you won't support it no matter what, while basically insulting the guy; what's your point? What was that supposed to add to the discussion, exactly?

[Greg2600]

Sorry, Mike. The damage is done for me. Its cool you are sorry and it takes steel balls to come around here after the shit storm. I no longer trust you. When I look at you and your RETRO VGS team, I still see a dysfunctional circus. You used your one shot and failed. I don't care about round two and thanks to your effortless show of how poorly you run a business, I wouldn't donate a penny to the KS RVGS.

 

I don't believe a word you say anymore. You proved time and time again than you have no idea how to run a company (barely a magazine company, from what I've read). How do you plan on running a 2+ million dollar campaign? Lets pretend for a minute that the RVGS IGG was a smash hit and it raised 3.6 million dollars. Your budget was so poorly estimated that I'm sure you would find a way to burn through all that money and still have nothing to show to everyone who backed it. I'm not saying it was ever just a cash grab, I'm saying it was an insanely poorly thought out business plan executed by 3 guys who couldn't even speak to each other properly. I asked many questions on your facebook page and was only met with idiotic statements from your super-fans or question dodging from john carlsen. When I would go after your team of idiot fans with simpler questions or facts, they would attack me - the troll hater that I clearly am. RVGS was the first Facebook page I was banned from.

 

I wish you luck on your future endeavors. I will not be part of any of those and I am sure that I do not feel alone when it comes to that.

 

At what point did Mike lie? I don't recall that. He responded badly to some people on Facebook. The magazine I'd say is a 2-year success. If it were so bad, it wouldn't have been backed a 2nd time. Unlike you, I've actually read it (all issues) and I enjoy it. Mike admitted the estimates were way too high based on what John wanted. Just like with the developer talk, how can any of us come down on Mike's estimates without doing the proper homework? You can't just call the man a liar or question his figures because you aren't happy with them. Go ahead and source all the costs yourself, and come back with your own estimates.

 

And the negative douchebaggery continues ad nauseam for no defensible reason. After Mike has communicated his mistakes and apologies, further bad-mouthing says a great deal more about the critic than the target.

 

Thou who does so will not last very long on this forum. I've always credited the mods here for being reactive to it.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Greg2600

[AtariTexas]

Seriously its starting to get old. If you claim you don't want to support it then state it and move on........I see the same circle of people dog pile on it every other post. I'm looking more like this everyday from it

 

Edited October 7, 2015 by BadHornet

[InnovaX5]

 

This entire post was completely unnecessary. If you don't want to support the RetroVGS, then just don't. If you would support it if certain things were done, then say so. But to say that you won't support it no matter what, while basically insulting the guy; what's your point? What was that supposed to add to the discussion, exactly?

This thesis means nothing to me. Its too little, too late. If it means something to you, great. Unless Mike Kennedy is crafting a time machine to undo the events he unfolded regarding the retro VGS then I would most likely back this project. I liked the project when it was announced. I liked the idea of a new console that was a throw back to the 16/32 bit era. Whatever it was morphed into and thrown onto IGG as, was not the same project from the years worth of podcasts.

 

Given what I know from all the pod casts, all the videos, the mostly deleted facebook posts, the fan made parodies, the posts here from mike. He's not the guy to do this project. Come back as a publisher of a retro system (Atari 2600/7800, NES/Famicom, Master System, Megadrive, etc) , come back as a retro themed amusement park, come back as a better magazine company and a colorful jaguar / cart shell shop.

 

Making a new video game platform is obviously not this teams thing. I doubt even seeing an actual prototype will change any feelings I have at this point. This is not what should be. I don't believe anything he says about the developers on board, I don't believe anything about budgeting for the consoles. I'm tired of hearing how this is going to compete with the big 3 (Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo), because it never will. Small market for the RVGS got even smaller from the Kickstarter / IGG abortion. Stop comparing it to the PS4, the Xbox One, and even the Wii U. Hell, stop comparing it to the Analogue NT or CMVS.

 

Who is this marketed to? Why would anyone want to take a step backwards in technology to embrace nostalgia? We have nostalgia already in the form of the console you grew up with as a child. If you want to buy one - tell me why you do. Also, tell me why you are confidant that giving your money to this man? I want to know why you think this is a good idea still? After everything we've seen and everything Mikes said.

[Zerosquare]

I don't recall lying or being misleading when talking about developers. Earlier this year I did have a two hour face-to-face meeting, at Konami's El Segundo HQ with Michael Rajna, Konami's Director of Marketing & Licenses. He is a big retro gamer and liked what we were doing. We discussed brining back some old Konami arcade IP in the form of new games (like Resogun did with Defender) on RVGS. He was all for it but indicated they would like to wait it out until the product got more fleshed out. He did kindly ask me to not discuss Konami's involvement until we a had signed deal. As I said this was early on and I was gauging interest and there was and is some legitimate interest here. I recall a post here from someone stating that "some people consider emailing a company PR person as being in discussions with ....." And that was certainly never the case with any of my contacts with any of the developers I said we talked with.

Yeah, that was me.

 

So, you didn't send an email, you actually had a meeting with Konami. Fine. They wanted to wait until the project evolved, you didn't sign anything with them, and they explicitely asked you not to talk about it. At best, that's very tepid support; at worst, it's a polite way to say "we're not interested". Not to mention that one meeting with them is far from being "in talks with Konami"; negotiating with such large companies is something that takes months at least. Worst, despite being told to keep it secret until further notice, you publicly used it for promotion.

 

It's like you had a single blind date with a woman that told you "I may be interested, give me time and don't tell anyone yet", and you started bragging about how you're discussing getting married with her. That doesn't make you look good.

 

 

 

As far as having over 150 dev's interested in making games for this. All true. We have been inundated with inquiries from dev's around the world since we leaked this all out a few months ago. Many small and just starting out devs to more established dev's. We have been shown dozens of early game screen shots and some video footage and have been sifting through them slowly. As I've indicated before, we aren't in a rush to launch with more than 6-10 titles until we see what kind of demand there is and what type of first year install base we might garner. We don't want to oversaturate the games as that is not good for anyone.

In case you hadn't noticed yet, screenshots, just like 3D renders, don't prove anything by themselves. How many of those 150 developers have actually released games that are sold? And if you had 150 developers interested, how come you had so few backers on Indiegogo?

 

Your previous posts was a great step in the right direction, but I'm afraid you're still stuck in self-delusion mode.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Zerosquare

[Gentlegamer]

 

 

If Konami CBA making games for systems with 20 million+ users, why would they go anywhere near RVGS? They've fucked the bed and are only interested in tugging the titties of their IP in any way possible that requires little to no effort - which is no doubt how Mike got through their door. No matter what went down with the meeting between him and the retro gaming fan Konami exec., nothing was and nothing will ever come of that. Don't delude yourself.

 

 

Maybe if RVGS has a coin slot and a guy can come and empty it every week, that might work...

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2015 by Gentlegamer

[jaybird3rd]

Instead, you guys can try to enhance gaming on the actual old consoles we grew up with. The stuff people in this community are actually nostalgic of. Shoot for a cross platform 8-bit toolset so homebrew developers can quickly develop games on the actual 8-bit systems. Get these systems online for multiplayer. Work with the community to achieve it. Ask people actually working on stuff like this and see what they need. Make it open so people wont have trust issues. Getting the best out of these old machines is fascinating. That's my opinion anyway.

For whatever it's worth, this makes more sense to me, too. At a time when there are already so many vintage platforms with active communities around them—at least one for every "era" in the history of video games—is there really a need for yet another platform? It's especially hard to see the need for something like the RVGS, which is supposed to be "retro" but has more in common with modern systems architecturally, except for the use of cartridges. Modern gamers won't like it because of the limitations that come with the cartridge format, and classic gamers won't like it because they won't want to buy an "imitation retro console" when they already have the real thing.

 

If the goal is to create cartridge-based ports of "retro-style" indie games, why not provide developers with the tools to port these games to the vintage consoles that collectors already own? Any of the major ones are guaranteed to have a larger installed user base than the RVGS console could ever hope to get. So instead of building a whole new console, build a complete cross-platform toolchain which would make it easy for modern developers to port their games to the major vintage consoles, and then offer publishing services. If you support the right mix of consoles, you might have enough of a combined user base to make it sustainable. You could even support the Atari Jaguar as one of the target systems, since you already have the cartridge tooling!

[CPUWIZ]

For whatever it's worth, this makes more sense to me, too. At a time when there are already so many vintage platforms with active communities around them—at least one for every "era" in the history of video games—is there really a need for yet another platform? It's especially hard to see the need for something like the RVGS, which is supposed to be "retro" but has more in common with modern systems architecturally, except for the use of cartridges. Modern gamers won't like it because of the limitations that come with the cartridge format, and classic gamers won't like it because they won't want to buy an "imitation retro console" when they already have the real thing.

 

If the goal is to create cartridge-based ports of "retro-style" indie games, why not provide developers with the tools to port these games to the vintage consoles that collectors already own? Any of the major ones are guaranteed to have a larger installed user base than the RVGS console could ever hope to get. So instead of building a whole new console, build a complete cross-platform toolchain which would make it easy for modern developers to port their games to the major vintage consoles, and then offer publishing services. If you support the right mix of consoles, you might have enough of a combined user base to make it sustainable. You could even support the Atari Jaguar as one of the target systems, since you already have the cartridge tooling!

 

That would require skill on the part of the developer. People want to write shit in BASIC or another hand-holding language, so they need a super fast console, to make a SNES style game. How many of the 150 "developers" could actually write a real SNES game?

[bretthorror]

Going back to video games, cartridges are part of a particular era of video game history. You can play the ROMs via emulation, but the experience is different from playing on the real original hardware. Good for you if it makes no difference to you, but it sure makes a difference to me: When you play on real hardware, there are no savestates, no software-based pause feature, and very few options for alternate controllers. You need to install the console between the TV and the chairs/sofa, and this means you need to set actual time aside to play the darn game.

 

Emulation provides a distilled experience that can be interrupted and resumed at any time, and ironically, that's the very reason why I can never play more than 10 minutes with any cart ROM under emulation, especially from the 16-bit era. I can play for a while, then I need to stop playing for whatever reason, so I save the game into a savestate file, and oftentimes I won't return to the game afterwards because I have other things to do, or other games I feel like playing. Since I know I'm not going to commit to a long game (like say a RPG) I won't even bother starting a game session in the first place.

 

Setting up a console in the living room means I have to put my PC/tablet/smartphone aside and put some quality time into playing a specific game on that console, with the proper controller. This is what I call a "video gaming experience", compared to what I would call "casual gaming" on other media. Setting all notions of nostalgia aside, I like carts for the fact that what I have in my hands is a solid, well-defined work of software craftsmanship. No patching, no downloadable extras that I won't even care about 5 years from now, just the core gaming experience delivered in a nice package, with a nice paper manual I can consult at any time. If any interesting extras can be added to the game, just make a sequel (or an expanded edition of the original game) in cartridge format!

 

I've never been able to figure out this logic when the topic of emulation vs. real hardware comes up. I've heard it all and experienced it all and I just can't fathom how people still bash emulation like it's some kind of terrible experience in playing virtually the exact games we all love. It's not like these emulators are total junk, I've never encountered issues at all in games I've played for years and years. If anything, emulation makes things so much better because a lot of older system had serious design flaws. The video quality is much better on emulators, flicker can be taken out of the games, and dear God, getting games to work in a real NES is absolutely maddening. The controllers on certain systems sucked, sometimes there was no pause button, games that could have used a save system didn't have one. Emulation fixes more things than it wrecks. It's fine to have all the old systems, God knows I have a ton of that shit like everyone else here, but I just can't agree with anyone who acts like people who emulate have no idea what they're missing, like having to blow in carts and struggle to get the system to read the game only to have the cart freeze up in the middle of a long play session of a Nintendo game. Controller cords are too short. To me, the prospects of this is exactly why emulation is the way to go.

 

I'm definitely not singling you out (I don't care how anyone plays their games, I just am glad we're all enjoying them), but I've seen so many videos on youtube from collectors who think they're God's gift to gaming because they take the time to go to the second hand stores, flea markets, etc and someone playing off a rom doesn't go through any of this work to accomplish the same goal - to play video game x. In any area of life, we take the path of least resistance. You wouldn't make extra work for yourself to do at your job just for the sake of it, so why is it required that someone pillages thrift stores on a weekly or daily basis when you can cut right through the bullshit and get right to business? They're only video games, first and foremost. I just think it's an archaic way of thinking and this "experience" of retro gaming is an overstated crock that collectors use to justify themselves amassing old junk when someone asks "why the hell don't you just download the game?". The ritual of inserting a CD or a cartridge isn't that exciting. USB controller adapters are inexpensive. And while I have them, I never even use them. The convenience of a wireless, comfortable controller is just to high to worry about using an original.

 

Personally, I tend to collect physical copies of things harder to accomplish via emulation. Like the Bally Astrocade controllers, tabletop arcade units/handhelds or light gun games. Even that Atari 2600 paddle or racing games. Problem is half the time those peripherals don't work to begin with or they're simply undersupported. And I just don't have time to rebuy and rebuy these things so that they'll work for the 10 minutes they'll really get used. But hey, it's more power to anyone to collect what they enjoy and I certainly encourage it. But as someone who has all the classic systems and emulation devices, I can't sit quiet when someone says that a person like me isn't experiencing the game properly because they are playing a rom. It makes no difference to me because it's the game that creates the experience, not a controller or slipping a cart in a slot.

[Chris++]

It's called "rationalizing one's purchases," that's all. It's understandable, as we're all human; and at least the hardware-sniffers collect cool stuff, as opposed to beer bottlecaps or something...but yeah, when it gets nasty, the context is lost. I mostly play emulated games myself, but it only really works for me because I have a Stelladapter, so I can use a CX-40.

 

Edit: What I completely understand, and agree with, is the deliberate purchase of homemade games ("homebrews") in cartridge form, in support of those very difficult and impressive endeavors.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2015 by Chris++

[PlaysWithWolves]

I'm definitely not singling you out (I don't care how anyone plays their games, I just am glad we're all enjoying them), but I've seen so many videos on youtube from collectors who think they're God's gift to gaming because they take the time to go to the second hand stores, flea markets, etc and someone playing off a rom doesn't go through any of this work to accomplish the same goal - to play video game x. In any area of life, we take the path of least resistance. You wouldn't make extra work for yourself to do at your job just for the sake of it, so why is it required that someone pillages thrift stores on a weekly or daily basis when you can cut right through the bullshit and get right to business? They're only video games, first and foremost. I just think it's an archaic way of thinking and this "experience" of retro gaming is an overstated crock that collectors use to justify themselves amassing old junk when someone asks "why the hell don't you just download the game?". The ritual of inserting a CD or a cartridge isn't that exciting. USB controller adapters are inexpensive. And while I have them, I never even use them. The convenience of a wireless, comfortable controller is just to high to worry about using an original.

 

I guess that depends on one's stance on the morality and/or legality of downloading ROMs.

[glazball]

 

Bill, at the end of the day this was the biggest question I had to. To be honest, they're not going to sell thousands of these consoles based on emulation/hardware cores. However, there are enough collectors out there who will want physical releases IF the games are really good. I mean, heck, remember the mania over getting a faux box for the Mega Man 9 digital release (Capcom press kit)? Classic emulation is great, but if it's going to double the price, don't bother. There are two dozen ways to emulate those systems as is.

 

First off, thank you Mike for returning and speaking up. I think we all appreciate that.

 

I'd like to make a suggestion regarding a sustainable business model. Yes, there are many of us who do want physical games/carts. Something you might look into, after the RVGS is up and running, is a RetroLand VIP Subscription. Essentially, each month a new cart could be released and the VIP Subscribers would be auto-billed and get the monthly game (ideally at a discounted price). That way you would have an idea of a base monthly income. I've seen it done with a small record label I really loved and it worked well.

[shadowkn55]

 

That would require skill on the part of the developer. People want to write shit in BASIC or another hand-holding language, so they need a super fast console, to make a SNES style game. How many of the 150 "developers" could actually write a real SNES game?

 

Based on some of the comments left on their FB page from "potential" devs, they want something powerful enough to use .NET, Java, or (insert bloated language here) otherwise it's a non-starter for them. Part of the retro charm is having a resource limited platform and programming in an environment (mostly assembly) that allows the developer to squeeze as much performance as possible out of them and still convey their vision to the gamer.

 

[bretthorror]

 

I guess that depends on one's stance on the morality and/or legality of downloading ROMs.

 

At this point in the age of all media, there are a very small portion of people that has any concern with the morality of this. And a lot who do download music or movies even though they collect games physically, so they're full of it to begin with. You're right, technically. It's moot to me because I've bought more games than I'll ever play anyways, so in my mind whatever I emulate is a wash. That and people buying NES carts at a pawn shop might be superior ethically, but the developers aren't getting any money at all, so they're not really supporting video games regardless. Again, it's where I wash out on emulation.

 

I can't argue your statement, I just don't think it's a big issue to most people. Take from that what you will. You're going to heaven, I'm going to hell.

[CPUWIZ]

 

Based on some of the comments left on their FB page from "potential" devs, they want something powerful enough to use .NET, Java, or (insert bloated language here) otherwise it's a non-starter for them. Part of the retro charm is having a resource limited platform and programming in an environment (mostly assembly) that allows the developer to squeeze as much performance as possible out of them and still convey their vision to the gamer.

 

 

Exactly my point.