Pixelboy Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 After two mid-term exams yesterday, I decided to take the day off today, and mostly relax and procrastinate. I had a closer look at the homebrew MSX games submitted to the MSXdev contest over the last few years, and I rounded up what I consider to be the best candidates for a ColecoVision port. My primary rule for making these selections was that the game ROMs needed to be 32K or less. That's why such games as "The Cure", "Monster Hunter" or "Uridium" were not considered. I'm not saying I want to publish any of these games on ColecoVision under my Team Pixelboy label, this is just me dreaming up a topic for discussion, and that's why I didn't create a poll with this topic. So let's call this "pointless YouTube research". To be perfectly honest though, it would be interesting to find out if the makers of these MSX games would be interested in porting them to the ColecoVision. So anyway, here are my personal selections, in alphabetical order. Feel free to comment. Caos Begins (32K) (MSXdev'07) - Hikaru Games https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg_G0EZqJz4 Caverns of Titan (16K) (MSXdev'05) - JLTurSan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC2NnuSVaGM Malaika (16K) (MSXdev'13) - Relevo Videogames https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUYRx3w7haM Mr Cracksman (8K) - Relevo Videogames https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Nmg5kjJ9c Shouganai (16K) (MSXdev'13) - Paxanga https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0m1PlWfO3E Teodoro No Sabe Volar (32K) (MSXdev'12) - Retroworks / Dimension Z https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTyXNymHeSU Also, the following game is not a homebrew game, but I discovered this and I wanted to share my discovery in this thread. It looks like fun! Moai no Hibou (32K) - Paxanga https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkjM4u2sQcw 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chart45 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 if s msx game is 32k will it be 32k on the colecovision ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 if a msx game is 32k will it be 32k on the colecovision ? Probably not. The added routines which would replace the missing MSX BIOS routines would make the port break the 32K limit, but this problem has been dealt with several times already, with such games as Thexder and The Goonies: A MegaCart cartridge PCB can be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattyboombatty Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Great stuff Luc! I'm glad someone (you) finally looked into this. I do not stay abreast of the MSX homebrew scene, so I wouldn't have known about these. That said, here is my quick 2¢ input on "yeas" and "nays". Caos Begins - YEA! - Looks like this game was largely influenced by Mega Man. Caverns of Titan - YEA! From the little I watched, this looks like a fun and challenging little diddy. Malaika - YEA! - Cute and fun little jumper game. Looks diggable. Mr. Cracksman - nay - Looks more or less like a clone of Side Trak. Shouganai - nay - looks like a cute and challenging puzzler/strategy, but I am not too into games like this. For me personally, a port may not be worth the effort. Teodoro No Sabe Volar - (Theodore Doesn't Know How To Fly or Theodore Can't Fly) - Attract screen looks totally awesome, like a work of art. Impressive. Tends to follow game design of late 80s NES carts (cool)! Rather Metroid-ish and a little "Doki Doki Panic" (also cool)! They did a heck of a job on this one. Just not sure if potential gamers would pass due to its strong similarity to numerous NES games. I have to give it a YEA! because I have tremendous appreciation for the creativity in its design. Even though it pulls from other works, that is perfectly acceptable, and it certainly has its own creative flare! Moai No Hibou - YEA! - Although a little on the fence about this one, I have a fascination with games produced by Casio. This looks like an adorable arcade platformer. If ported, I would like to see some graphical improvements with the sprites. A little shine-uppy would add some dazzle to this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Really like chaos,especially toedoro no saber volar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 Caos Begins - YEA! - Looks like this game was largely influenced by Mega Man. Seems to me more like a clone of "Knightmare II - Maze of Galious" than Mega Man. But I see your point. Malaika - YEA! - Cute and fun little jumper game. Looks diggable. Yeah, but it looks rather easy though... Mr. Cracksman - nay - Looks more or less like a clone of Side Trak. Actually, it's a clone/remake of Dodge'Em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten-four Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I like many of the MSXdev games. Caverns of Titan, a bit slow. Malaika, a Little Bomb Jack-like game.Mr. Cracksman, I like simple games too, reminds me about an old arcade game: Space Chaser. Shouganai, funny game where you must grabs things quickly on time. Uridium by Rasmus is anyway on my wishlist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artrag Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) Msx Uridium is by me Ti99/4a Titanium is by Rasmus Uridium needs 16k ram to unpack compressed levels and fills the vram as an egg with graphic data. Maybe restricting it to 2-3 (uncompressed) levels it could fit in 32k rom but would it be worth? Edited March 2, 2015 by artrag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Msx Uridium is by me Ti99/4a Titanium is by Rasmus Uridium needs 16k ram to unpack compressed levels and fills the vram as an egg with graphic data. The Super Game Module could be used for that, it's not a problem. I'm assuming the game uses graphic mode #2, so VRAM usage should be the same. Maybe restricting it to 2-3 (uncompressed) levels it could fit in 32k rom but would it be worth? Not really. But a MegaCart PCB using a 128K EPROM offers a fixed 16K bank (0x8000 to 0xBFFF) and 7 other 16K banks bankswitcheable from 0xC000 to 0xFFFF (so one bank at a time). If you could reconfigure your game along those lines, then a ColecoVision port of your version of Uridium should be quite possible, assuming it doesn't use any MSX hardware tricks that are not available via the ColecoVision's hardware architecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artrag Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Sure. It would be easy and everything would fit nicely. There is no hw trick in Uridium that a coleco cannot do. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chart45 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 i want it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sega_SHARK Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 umm WOW! This game looks sexy. Please port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyBoss Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 the problem might not be to port, but more to get the rights from the programmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artrag Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) The Super Game Module could be used for that, it's not a problem. I'm assuming the game uses graphic mode #2, so VRAM usage should be the same. Not really. But a MegaCart PCB using a 128K EPROM offers a fixed 16K bank (0x8000 to 0xBFFF) and 7 other 16K banks bankswitcheable from 0xC000 to 0xFFFF (so one bank at a time). If you could reconfigure your game along those lines, then a ColecoVision port of your version of Uridium should be quite possible, assuming it doesn't use any MSX hardware tricks that are not available via the ColecoVision's hardware architecture. The MSX version sold in the cart you can buy here http://msx.ebsoft.fr/uridium/ is a 64K ROM filled as an egg of compressed data. At each level change, the game unpacks the graphic data in VRAM (all 16 K are used) and the level and the music data in RAM (using about 16KB of ram). Even if, theoretically, one could store the levels uncompressed in ROM, in order to allow destructible items, they have to stay in RAM, unless we do not want to extra complex objects of tiles to be plotted in a "second pass" over the level... I would discard this option as it would need too much reworking of the code, with the risk of frame loss (smoothness in the scrolling is the strong point of this game). As the 128K cart does not provide extra ram, the simplest option seems the SGM which would also simplify the port of the audio section (it offers an AY8910). But, what is the rom size here ? The free version (the one you can download from the site above) is without musics and scenes, and barely fits in a 48K rom. With only 32K Rom one should drop a part of the levels, the title screen, the ending scenes and the musics... Edited March 4, 2015 by artrag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 But, what is the rom size here ? The free version (the one you can download from the site above) is without musics and scenes, and barely fits in a 48K rom. With only 32K Rom one should drop a part of the levels, the title screen, the ending scenes and the musics... The MegaCart supports a minimum of 128K of ROM. The architecture is as follows: The first 16K (of the 32K cartridge ROM range) is fixed and the other 16K is switcheable between seven 16K banks. So ROM space is not a problem here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artrag Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) Yes, but, as I said, if you stay with 1K of ram you cannot allow destructible items on ground (nor manage up to 26 moving objects among enemies and bullets...) You should plug in a coleco BOTH the SGM and the MegaCart to get something close to what is needed to do a full port. Edited March 4, 2015 by artrag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 Yes, but, as I said, if you stay with 1K of ram you cannot allow destructible items on ground (nor manage up to 26 moving objects among enemies and bullets...) You should plug in a coleco BOTH the SGM and the MegaCart to get something close to what is needed to do a full port. I don't think you're understanding the situation here: The MegaCart is a ColecoVision cartridge PCB. So of course, the MegaCart and Super Game Module would be used together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artrag Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 A complete msx1 costs about 80. The msx version of the cart is 28. How much would cost the sgm plus the mega cart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 A complete msx1 costs about 80. The msx version of the cart is 28. How much would cost the sgm plus the mega cart? The SGM is about 100$ shipping included, IIRC. I would estimate the ColecoVision version of Uridium (CIB) would cost roughly 50$, based on the cost of developing and manufacturing similar games in the past. However, your implied comparison in prices is invalid, because many ColecoVision fans already own the Super Game Module, and have purchased games that require it. If I were to publish Uridium, I would start with 100 copies, which would cater to all the people who own a SGM right now. Once Opcode ships the second run of SGMs, this would probably mean additional demand for the game, so I would make more copies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chart45 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 are we close to a deal to port this game? or its a no go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artrag Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 no go, too busy on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chart45 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 no go, too busy on this it's a sad day ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 it's a sad day Indeed, especially considering Eduardo Mello would have gladly ported Uridium to the ColecoVision. Eduardo is an expert at porting MSX games to the ColecoVision, he's doing a lot of ports right now (he delivered the Mappy and Rally-X ports to me just yesterday) and all he would have needed is the source code, which would have remained between me, artrag and Eduardo. Go figure... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artrag Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) The code uses a bunch of undocumented features of the vdp, a lot of combinatorics is needed to generate the data (my Matlab script lasts about 10 minutes on my PC), some sections are cycle exact. Add that the audio section should be redone from scratch. In short, there is no hope for anyone to port this game having only its sources (spending a reasonable time, naturally). Even in shorter, buy an msx1 and the cart, it will be cheaper. Edited May 2, 2015 by artrag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten-four Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Indeed, especially considering Eduardo Mello would have gladly ported Uridium to the ColecoVision. Eduardo is an expert at porting MSX games to the ColecoVision, he's doing a lot of ports right now (he delivered the Mappy and Rally-X ports to me just yesterday) and all he would have needed is the source code, which would have remained between me, artrag and Eduardo. Go figure... Sad about the game Uridium, but Mappy and Rally-X and even the game Super Pac-Man can make me smile again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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