A8 Elite (Acornsoft):The UK Press Claims-What is the real story here?.

[Tickled_Pink]

Weaker - MUCH weaker. I used to play it a lot. The graphics, such as they are, are static. It's more of a space RPG than a simulator.

 

IIRC the game was written in BASIC.

 

One of the more interesting aspects, though (and one I had hoped they'd introduce in Elite: Dangerous) was the trading boards. Here, a list of about ten items to trade would pop up as you might expect in a space trading game, but some of the items in the list would change every couple of seconds. Because of the limited number of trade items in the game you could pretty much memorise prices and knew what was a good price. So when a good price for an item came up, you knew you had a bargain. You had to be quick to spot them and buy them, though. In this respect, trading was stronger than in Elite IMO.

 

Universe was also quite buggy in that it didn't have much in the way of error handling. Have the wrong disk in the drive and Alternate Reality would keep asking you for it. Have the wrong disk in the drive and Universe would crash.

 

Combat was a turn-based affair as far as I can recall. You could, however, target individual systems and disable an enemy ship. Once disabled, you sent on a boarding party to take over the ship. Can't remember what happened once you took it over except that you didn't get to build a fleet out of the ships you boarded in combat.

 

So there were some good ideas in the game that I'm still waiting to be replicated in a realtime space game.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Tickled_Pink

[Subby]

IIRC the game was written in BASIC.

 

Wasn't Universe written in Forth?

[Tickled_Pink]

You could be right. I always assumed it was BASIC because of the very slow 3D draw rate for the enemy ships and the aforementioned lack of error trapping.

[Lost Dragon]

Another example of Elite rumour mongering on A8, back in the day was a letter from a person in Atari User (They just said:name and adress supplied) claiming he'd played pirate versions of both Elite and The Last Ninja, in fact had poured hours into both...

 

Atari User again mentioned there'd been a rumour that A8 Elite had been written, but it's release quashed by Firebird.

 

Of all the systems i've owned over the years, the Atari platforms seem to have the most conspiracy factor type stuff attached to Lost Games at times.

[Tickled_Pink]

If there were pirated versions then we'd all have played them by now, rather than just this solitary attention seeking nutjob.

 

It is possible that they were embargoed incomplete versions played by someone within the industry, hence the withholding of the name and address. I don't know what the full story was regarding The Last Ninja but I do remember seeing adverts by System 3 stating the availability of an Atari version. In fact, System 3 did it on a few games. They seemed to be amongst the worst for getting A8 owners' hopes up.

[Lost Dragon]

Trouble is, Atari User printed a good amount of questionable material as was, without mystery readers writing in with bizzare claims of their own....but yep, if said pirate versions existed in any form, they'd of been well documented over the years i'm sure.It did indeed smack of an attention seeking nut job, maybe A.U held back his/her details as they did'nt want more window lickers writing in claiming they'd played....giving readers false hopes versions could be found on the pirate scene?.

 

 

As for System 3? tell me about it, big 2-page adverts for Last Ninja from System 3, proudly proclaim coming soon on Atari 800 XL/XE...

 

 

I secured an interview with Mark Cale, sent a lot of questions regarding lost games from them on so many systems and....never heard a damn thing back, utter waste of my time, System 3 seemingly unable/unwilling (?) to give the time to answer a few simple questions regarding what happened to....?

[Jetboot Jack]

From my experience with System 3 Mark was not very hands on at all with developers doing conversions, all my dealings with them were handled by Roger Large.

 

It would also be fair to say that asking for details of long lost projects from nearly 30 years ago is genuinely likely to result in a blank stare - someone whose business is publishing games would probably not remember the ones that never happened?

 

sTeVE

[high voltage]

Hehe, A8 Shadow of the Beast

Edited March 25, 2015 by high voltage

[Lost Dragon]

Mark was asked far more questions about Lost Games on PS1, such as Bloodshot, The Last Ninja reboot etc, than he was the Lost 8 Bit games, one of the reasons being other coders have given impressions and insights as to why the A8 versions or ZX Spectrum versions etc were canned.

Plus, not sure who from System 3 the RG Freelancer behind the Making Of...Myth article, spoke to, but whoever the source was, their memory over ST versions of games was hazy, as they told said Freelancer ST Myth had been released, when in fact it was canned, only a magazine demo.of the ST game made it out.

[Mclaneinc]

Last Ninja on the Atari 8 bit..yeah right..

 

If that had been around in any shape of form it would have made it out to the pirates, the interest would have been too hard to stiffle from all sides.

 

Marked as "coming soon" and there's nothing laying about, the perfect person to ask would be John Twiddy if he hasn't already been asked.

[Jetboot Jack]

Again I am not sure John would be that helpful, was he involved in the A8 version - not to my knowledge, and I never spoke or interacted with him when we were stumbling through work on LN2.

 

Chances are if there were any A8 LN activity it was out of house, not diverting attention of the in-house team onto less profitable formats.

 

sTeVE

[Lost Dragon]

Going purely off memory, John Twiddy was asked his opinion on what might of happened to the advertised version of TLN, in an issue of RetroGamer Magazine, years ago and John seemed to feel anyone from System 3 attempting a conversion would of struggled with the hardware, but he was'nt, as far as i'm aware involved in any planned A8 conversions, if any were actually attempted by System 3.

There were a lot of trade ads doing the rounds in the press, plus news articles proudly proclaiming various A8 games coming soon, be they from System 3, Ocean (Frankie Goes To Hollywood A8 claims even made it to Atari User Magazines news section), Konami (A8 version of Jackal listed alongside the others).

Said adverts are planned/booked months in advance, done when games are at discussion stages etc i'd of thought, so marketing probably just 'ran' with info they were given there and then.

[Lost Dragon]

I'd of liked to have seen System 3 have a crack at A8 Last Ninja mind, seems bit 'unfair' we A8 owners never saw a version, when the 'lowly' Electron recieved conversions of both LN and LN2 thanks to Peter Scott, who describes the Electron conversion of LN2 as one of his proudest moments of coding:

 

'LAST NINJA 2, a completely different sort of game but one that managed to get a 500K C64 multi-load game into a 32K Beeb and Electron.'

[Magic Knight]

Cant remember the details, but wasnt Konami's 'The Jackal' converted to a near polished version? I remember the Computer magazines at the time having the usual C64/Speccy/Amstrad and also Atari as list of platforms?

 

As it was advertised on a full colour A4 page in the mags (usually a month before release) then surely a version must exist? for the Atari as these games take months to do

 

 

Its a cracking game also -btw!

[José Pereira]

Now soo many years late lets see what I remember of games advertized in U.K. Magazines:

-> Martech was one can't remember, Strong Man?

-> System 3: Last Ninja, Tusker (Twisted advertised inside the disc version of IK inlay paper cardbut this one never came to anyone);

-> Ocean: Frankie Goes to Hollywood;

-> Electric Dreams: Transformers;

-> Konami: Jackal;

-> Anco: Player Manager (but this one never came into any 8bits);

-> Hi-Tec Software: Hong Kong Phoey, Atom Ant, Tom Cat in The Beverly Hill Cops (I think also Turbo Bike Simulator somewhere);

-> Databyte: Adam Caveman, Mumbles Super Spy (also now I know the other one Stargate Legacy and I think I read somewhere about Spy vs Spy IV that the action would take place in space);

->Of course in the U.S.a we all know about all the Atari Corporation like Jinks, Mat Mania Challenge, Ikari Warriors, Mean 18 ultimate Golf,... and bad or not versions at least wecould get soo many years late Xenophobe, Commando and Tower Toppler;

 

From Page6/New atari User (maybe older ones also in Atari User but just talkings and no advertising):

-> Fantasy Productions: 21st Baker Street and one or two more that I don't remember the names now (one of these ones was said at Page6 that were many Months in development and was a multi-load with lots and lots of screens);

-> Alternative: Thomas the Train Engine (Learning Series), Postman Pat (but then said that it wouldn't be available but that Alternative will continue to support and had more titles planned to release during the year onto A8, I think they didn't released any after this);

-> Harlequin: Shadow of the Beast, Menace, Last Ninja 2,... We have what we have and we now know what happened from Steve;

 

-> In a French magazine saying that "The Real Ghostbusters will soon be realeased on these Atari 800XL/XE negleted machines but not by Ocean but version done by Virgin Mastertronic (neverget this Ocean->Mastertronic thing ????);

 

On the Sunaro catalogue I used to receive and order games from here to them (all saying "Coming Soon"c or "TBC - Release to be confirned):

-> Byte Back Software: Auto Test Simulator and one or two more (there was also two or three from Alternative and I think Players also);

-> Gremlin Graphics: Dark Fusion, Gary Liners Hi-Skills;

-> Anco: Rally Cross Simulator;

 

Again from U.S.A. the talkings about:

-> Epyx: Winter Games, Claifornia Games, Impossible Mission ????;

-> Microprose: Gunship, Airborne Ranger;

-> Acess/Sidney Corporation: Dambusters;

-> Origin: Ultima V;

 

And that's just what I remember now, later for sure I'll remember more... GRRRRRRRR!!!!!................................... Shame Shame Shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............................................................

[Lost Dragon]

Looking at old post of mine, Twiddy had said reason he thought A8 Last Ninja never arrived from System 3 was indeed because it might of been beyond abilities of the A8 coders System 3 had.

I've also mentioned following claimed to be in development A8 games before-Druid II,which we now know TGM made up, as John was not converting it, Flash Gordon (Mastertronic), Daley Thompsons Supertest (Ocean), Kendo Warrior (Byte Back), Hunt For Red October (Grandslam), Zoids (Martech).

Elite also supposed to have claimed they were doing A8 Paperboy as well.

[José Pereira]

Oops, forgot Flash Gordon from Mastertronic that they said in the paper list of games available on A8 in many of their budget releases.

Yes, from Martech it was Zoids and I made the confusion, there wasn't any advertising or talking for Transformers be available on A8.

[Lost Dragon]

Never liked the look of the ZX Spectrum version of Flash Gordon, it, like Platoon, seemed to suit the C64 hardware far better, murky colours and all.The SID music on Flash Gordon was superb, a POKEY version would of been interesting.Ditto Zoids, if that was ever converted in real-life, as the SID track is epic.

 

Alternative software i seem to recal reading might have ditched later WIP A8 titles, to focus on ST development,

[Mclaneinc]

I mentioned John purely as he would be the goto source for any Atari team, the fact he thinks it never happened because any team wasn't up to it tells me he was never asked about any conversion issues a team might come across (a shed load)

Edited March 25, 2015 by Mclaneinc

[Lost Dragon]

At least with the ZX Spectrum version of Last Ninja we know it was being worked on, have rough guesses as to how far along it got (50% ?) and most likely reason why it was canned, from sources like Mev Dinc, who were called in to try and see if it could be turned around into a commercially viable product....

Fact Twiddy, as you rightly say, seems to suggest he was never asked about anything with regards converting the C64 code to the A8, from anyone, does tend to speak volumes regarding chances of a version ever being started.

[JamesD]

The Last Ninja for the CoCo 3 actually partially runs and it has been demonstrated publicly but it was still cancelled. It's very possible unreleased versions for other computers exist.

But just because such titles exist doesn't mean Atari Elite ever existed. At least not in a playable form.
I still don't buy the bit about the Atari version of Elite being cancelled because it was too good.

[Lost Dragon]

Not aware of the 'specs' of the TRS-80 CoCo 3, but guess it's more powerful than say an 800XL/130XE?.

 

Also, what's known about the conversion? for example is it an 'official' conversion or something someone has done off their own back?.

 

Reason i ask, is if Firebird and System 3 lacked the A8 coders needed to tackle conversions such as Elite and Last Ninja, i could'nt see them put resources into advertising, then hiring A8 coders for any conversions, unless they were sure the A8 market was commercially viable to support the results.

 

If it was seen in decline and would only keep declining as work progresses on the conversions, then i very much doubt work on converting either really got off the ground.

[Jetboot Jack]

'-> Microprose: Gunship, Airborne Ranger;" - I know for a fact these were killed off prior to any work being done - simply no market for them apparently, that is from the horses mouth(s)

 

sTeVE

[Mclaneinc]

I did a company review of them for a trade paper and got a very similar side remark when talking to them after it was published, seems the poor old Atari had lost the little appeal it had, such a shame as Airborne Ranger would have been very very do-able on the Atari, Gunship I'll not miss, others might.

 

As for other versions of BIG titles still being out there and not seen as yet, I very much doubt it, if you look at the fantastic work Frank Gasking does for Gamesthatwern't64 in finding proto's and full never seen the light of day stuff for the C64 you will see most of the finds are not really big big names like Last Ninja, the odd biggie does come in but mostly you will see preview versions were already out there in some format. A lot of the stuff was known about but newer or better unfinished stuff has been found (oh and a huge thank you to people like Frank and Jason / TMR etc for rooting out old discs for these items) but these titles were always known about, very rarely (really very rarely) has a big title that had some advert coverage or preview talk but never published has come to light after all this time, so the chances that there are Last Ninja's,, Elite's or other big name stuff existing in anything other than idea's at the time are really unlikely..

 

Mock ups maybe, but real never before seen code, really not much of a chance..

 

Its not to say they could not be done, Sheddy has proved that as well the FANTASTIC non official made stuff we have seen since, its simply men in suits would not risk the outlay on what was a machine in turmoil in the day..

[Jetboot Jack]

The ones I really wished I had not lost were or got copies of when I saw them were:

 

Trap (Alligata) - I had this on disc

Barbarian (Psygnosis) - only a demo, but I had this on disc

Winter Games - I saw that at Atari UK

UFO (7800) based on the Gerry Anderson TV show - I saw that at Atari UK

Black Lamp (2600) - I saw that at Atari UK

 

sTeVE