Matej Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Today on one Atari forum from Poland i foundamazing cartridge for Atari 65XE/800XE/130XE/800XL/XEGS .It is 18 channel stereo - OPL3 soundcard!!! It´s developed by T0RI. Webpage:http://atari.neostrada.pl/yamari/yamari.html OPL3Wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YMF262 How OPL3 sounds:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWGLRg9Vm_Qhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVGoCWpLSbs Pictures: Now I want 4x of them... I hope there will be some OPL3 player oreven native tracker on A800 too... Is anyone planning to manufacture those carts??? OPL3 + DAC chips you can buy on ALIBABA... http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb ... aha+ymf262 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Awesome! I would love to see this done as a PBI device with a small enough form factor so I could put it "under the hood" with my Incognito. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Something like this would be great as a right-cartridge-slot cart. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 That sounds amazing. I wonder how much data this needs to play a track, and how "regular" the timing must be? If it could be used in game, that is great. It ANTIC DMA needs turned off and it is just a song player, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 That sounds amazing. I wonder how much data this needs to play a track, and how "regular" the timing must be? Depending on the implementation, i'd expect it to be eat about the same CPU time as something like a stereo POKEY track; there's more channels to stuff note data into, but everything like envelope generation, vibrato and so on are done by the hardware so a lot of it is "fire and forget" after the note is triggered. It isn't finished, but my OPL driver for the C64 takes about sixteen scanlines on average. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I don't see any audio out. Must be on the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) There is audio out: Edited March 10, 2015 by Matej 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Depending on the implementation, i'd expect it to be eat about the same CPU time as something like a stereo POKEY track; there's more channels to stuff note data into, but everything like envelope generation, vibrato and so on are done by the hardware so a lot of it is "fire and forget" after the note is triggered. It isn't finished, but my OPL driver for the C64 takes about sixteen scanlines on average. That's excellent! This makes it 1000 times more useful than Covox, which requires almost 100CPU time. I am definitely interested in one (or maybe 4) of these now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 That's excellent! This makes it 1000 times more useful than Covox, which requires almost 100CPU time. I am definitely interested in one (or maybe 4) of these now! Disclaimer: i haven't used the cartridge to know if it puts any other roadblocks between the OPL chip and A8, i'm just guessing... but hopefully from a reasonably educated position. Has anyone considered prodding the appropriate person about adding support for the hardware to Altirra? i'm sort of interested in doing something with it (i'm not sure i'd call it "music" as such =-) but not to the point where i'd leave my comfy drag-and-drop cross assembly environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Has anyone considered prodding the appropriate person about adding support for the hardware to Altirra? i'm sort of interested in doing something with it (i'm not sure i'd call it "music" as such =-) but not to the point where i'd leave my comfy drag-and-drop cross assembly environment. Ugh, OPL... I think you finally found something from computing history that I hate even more than cassette tape. Pain in the butt to program, slow enough to be outrun by an 8088, and makes all your instruments sound like a flute.... I'll have to decline this, because OPL3 is a really big pain in the butt to emulate, far more than SID. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Hi, Ugh, OPL... I think you finally found something from computing history that I hate even more than cassette tape. Pain in the butt to program, slow enough to be outrun by an 8088, and makes all your instruments sound like a flute.... I'll have to decline this, because OPL3 is a really big pain in the butt to emulate, far more than SID. Totally aggree. I don´t want to blame this hardware development from TORI... but... why the hell using an OPL3? Maybe he´s to young to remember the early years of PC´s soung empire of Soundblaster 2.0 and similar cards, but my ears begin to bleed only when I remember the bunch of horrible "tunes" on the PC using OPL3 sounds. IMHO every YM2149 or so sounds better... BR, Juergen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctirad Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) but... why the hell using an OPL3? Maybe he´s to young to remember the early years of PC´s soung empire of Soundblaster 2.0 and similar cards, but my ears begin to bleed only when I remember the bunch of horrible "tunes" on the PC using OPL3 sounds. That was not fault of the OPL3, but the stupid concept of the predefined GM bank of the horrible sounds that makes it sound like a toy keyboard. The FM can produce awesome sounds from rich bass to nice pianos or pads. The OPL3 can do 4 operator. Still not a DX7 class, but close. However, I see no reason why to add any other soundchip to the Atari, no matter if it's OPL, SID, AY or whatever else. Atari = POKEY. Edited March 11, 2015 by ctirad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I agree that most SoundBlaster stuff on the PC sounded lame. However, there's kind of a charm to it in hindsight. The PC was such a mess in those days that you never really got the most from the hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Nothing beats the Dune Soundtrack on OPL3... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Hi, Totally aggree. I don´t want to blame this hardware development from TORI... but... why the hell using an OPL3? Maybe he´s to young to remember the early years of PC´s soung empire of Soundblaster 2.0 and similar cards, but my ears begin to bleed only when I remember the bunch of horrible "tunes" on the PC using OPL3 sounds. IMHO every YM2149 or so sounds better... BR, Juergen If SID had been grown up , it would have been an OPL3 Chip And, well, where is the common sense of "good sounding" and YM2149" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctirad Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) For the people that were already familiar with the MODules and similar formats based on samples the SB/Adlib indeed looked as the step back to the 8bit PSG era. The default and most used GM bank sounded like a barrel organ most of the time. But with some customisation the FM sounds truly HiFi with rich lows and highs. I personaly like the soundtrack from the Genesis Universal Soldier (a Turrican II mockup). It's hard to say which version is better. The original Amiga or the FM remake? Edited March 12, 2015 by ctirad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) The standard Setting of "OPL3" was like a lullaby done for posh people Then there had been many "AdLib (PC Sound-)Cards" producing such noise in the amplifier that it wasn't possible to produce good music with high pulse variations. You'd mostly hear the noise , not the music. So the resulting sounds mostly ended in some "blib" for high sounds and "blob" for basses Well, the Amiga sounded more interesting due to the samples from high quality Synthesizers, but the always present quantization noise and the fixed double mono .. erm ... stereo... gave always a bad mood. The OPN (OPL3 style) gives the direct sound and with a good amplification it sounds very powerfull. Interestingly , they decided to play the full tune "synthesized" but they could have used Digis also for the Drums. In that part, the history repeated... looking at the PAULA Chip. When Amiga and the 800 arrived, they were both far ahead of their time, but then nothing really good went over. While the Atari never got better "User interfaces", the Amiga encountered the same. The limits were at the presentation to the "viewer and listener". Not growing by the time. Edited March 12, 2015 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 @Makers: When I will buy 100x OPL3 chips and 100x YM DAC and make PCBs will someone solder that??? Or find very cheap firm which will do that? @Haters: What are you talking about??? SID or even YM2149 that is better than OPL3? Ohh wake up boys... You cant compare PSG with FM and vice versa. You must take OPL3 FM as similar soundchip which was in Atari Arcade Video Game Machines (YM2151) or in Sega Mega Drive (YM2612). But OPL3 is better than them. PSG vs. FM war is 100% nonsense... BTW can your SID / YM2149 sounds like this? Nope? For pure chipmusic lovers. This sounds like chipmusic... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 On MSX2 there is MOONSOUND with OPL4 (wavetable) so why not OPL3 on Atari 800? Take a look at this video... Here is Atari Arcade Machine with FM!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I always wondered, why people wanted to have SID in the Atari. A 2nd POKEY had been allowed due to the early development and cartridges could bring one. But such sound would have been really outstanding..... and had better fit to the ST, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creature XL Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 @Haters: What are you talking about??? SID or even YM2149 that is better than OPL3? Ohh wake up boys... You cant compare PSG with FM and vice versa. You must take OPL3 FM as similar soundchip which was in Atari Arcade Video Game Machines (YM2151) or in Sega Mega Drive (YM2612). But OPL3 is better than them. PSG vs. FM war is 100% nonsense... These are nice sounds. When I hear "FM" I am thinking back to the Genesis or PC music which was aweful to my ears ( I had a SNES). It might be due to the predefined sounds (if there were any) but most games sounds a like in this organ/flute style. @wavetables: This is a totally different, isn't it? Its more like SNES or what the SID-designer would have done if he had more memory on-chip (he said this in the famous interview of his) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) These are nice sounds. When I hear "FM" I am thinking back to the Genesis or PC music which was aweful to my ears ( I had a SNES). Most AdLib Stuff had been boring . Particular when the "GUS" arrived, everything had been "wavetabled" .... except the Dune Soundtrack It might be due to the predefined sounds (if there were any) but most games sounds a like in this organ/flute style.It might be due to the fact where that chips came from. Even today "organ/flute" is still popular there . @wavetables: This is a totally different, isn't it? Its more like SNES or what the SID-designer would have done if he had more memory on-chip (he said this in the famous interview of his) Watching the progress of all those SID revisions, there is nothing pointing toward that. Vice versa, the 8580 sounds more like OPL3 and the 1st 6581 more like a noise creating chip. Btw. POKEY has both , the direct voice creation AND FM (very similar to OPL). It's just that silly 8 bit resolution for the frequencies that makes things almost impossible. Edited March 12, 2015 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Hi Matej! No convincing needed here, already love OPL FM Only question for me is if the A800 is up to the task but there was the SFX cart for the C64 (YM3524 OPL) and the NES had the VRC VII cart (YM 2413 OPLL based). Am I missing something, but FM and POKEY would rock! @Makers: When I will buy 100x OPL3 chips and 100x YM DAC and make PCBs will someone solder that??? Or find very cheap firm which will do that? Well if you do consider an order, I would like ( 2 or 3) bare boards. Soldering SMD isn't too bad and already have some YMF&YAC sets Boards are about 2.5" x 3.5" so OSH Park cost per board would be ~$15 USD. PSG vs. FM war is 100% nonsense... So true, about as bad as 'Computer X is better then Computer Y'. Back in the day, everyone was in one 'camp' or another; because cost was high. Had to pick one and you loved it for the reasons you picked it. NOW, old systems cost less then a night out; I'm not a 'collector' but I've got more systems then I can setup at one time Thanks again for finding this project!! Yogi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctirad Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 FM on Pokey? Do you mean the voice+ distortion polynoms or some sophisticated multivoice combinations? Anyway, I allways wanted to know if it's possible to use multiple channels in a FM or rather additive/substractive way to reach an unusual sounds. With a proper software on PC it could be used as kind of a wavelet compression too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) FM on Pokey? Do you mean the voice+ distortion polynoms or some sophisticated multivoice combinations? Anyway, I allways wanted to know if it's possible to use multiple channels in a FM or rather additive/substractive way to reach an unusual sounds. With a proper software on PC it could be used as kind of a wavelet compression too. I think it's been accidentally added. If you produce square waves at 1.79MHz and put them on filter, you get a resulting frequency pulse of approx. 3.5MHz. The different pitch of both channels build a sweep in the audio range, resulting in "analogue" forward and backward sawtooth waves and also a triangle wave. Also the adding of the filtered voice and the base voice overlays to a 2 operator sound... that ticks inbetween the base frequency and the double frequency. Btw: Unusual sounds. In theory all my tests in "Playing with POKEY timing" use "unusual" sounds. You don't hear anything similar in other tunes. There are volumetric sweeps , frequency sweeps, even "sharper" high sounds ... regulary not possible! Edited March 12, 2015 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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