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The Jaguar version of Rayman Conspiracy


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#326 agradeneu OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:09 AM

Visually the difference betweeen 256 and 16 bit color for sprites should be mostly neglectable, especially with smaller ones like 16x16, which could look just fine even only 4 bit. I think the huge Rayman characters are made of smaller sprites instead of one huge sprite, that would explain why there are limbless. The same goes for the bosses. I think you can be very flexible with sprites on the Jaguar. No matter what,  detailed backgrounds should be in 16 bit color, a shared palette with the sprites would reduce color detail too much. But it really depends on the artwork/artstyle. 


Edited by agradeneu, Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:02 AM.


#327 agradeneu OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:22 AM

I was pleasantly surprised how Zaku on the Lynx matches the quality of Rayman's bosses, using the same tricks I guess, on a much more limited machine -look for  Boss Fight "Bip", around 7:20 mark.



#328 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:16 PM

:-))
Well, if you want a job done properly.

I reached out to Aaron via his company website, as like i say, FB is not something i personally use and he was kind enough to reply:

Hi Ross,

When we were doing the port, our artists (my brother Adam and a chap called Steve Field) came up with a more high resolution set of graphics that enhanced the game on the Jaguar vs the original PC version. (upside of porting to consoles, you’ve got a specific amount of memory and known chipset to work with, so you can optimise and design to use it all ;) )

From what I remember, the improved version was passed on for Hookstone (who we were doing the port for) to ok and apparently they liked it, but then we were told we had to stick with the original artwork as the upcoming Playstation port had to look the best of the bunch. I can’t confirm if this came down from Sony or Viacom specifically as I wasn’t in management.
I know someone who *might* be able to confirm either way, but I’m not sure if he would as there may be some lingering NDA/conflict of interest, but I’ll ask and see what he says ;)

Aaron


Honestly, that's all it took.

A 5 minute email after a few minutes searching.

And there we have it,they wanted to use Higher Resolution Graphics.. that was it...
He doesn't know who made the decision not to use them, Sony or Viacom but is very kindly going to ask on my behalf.

If there's a conspiracy here, please JagChris, explain it to me.

I would very much like to thank Aaron for taking time to respond to my enquiry.

#329 Barone OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:47 PM

These conspiracies are always "funny".

In the Sega 16 forums, for the longest time, people used to claim that DC's short lifespan was mostly a result of evil Sony tactics. DC was much easier and pleasant to develop for; and the PS2 only caught on based on false hardware claims (not that they didn't exist) and treacherous Sony moves.

Well, one day an actual DC/PS2/GC developer (which is still active in the industry and was part of the Burnout series development team) appeared in the forums to tell these people that it was actually Microsoft (supposedly Sega's partner given the WIndows CE usage and etc) paying developers (they had contact with them due to the Dreamcast SDKs being based on MS tools) upfront money to kill off their DC projects and favor the original Xbox instead. 
And also that the DC processing power wasn't all that to begin with. 

No matter how many technical explanations the guy offered and how accurate his dev stories were, most of those people were still willing to pull fantasies out of there asses and keep telling that evil Sony was responsible for everything that went bad. 


In the case of the Jaguar and more recently its Zoop port, it may very well be that having payed a much higher license fee for the Playstation release and seeing it as the most viable platform the publisher simply wanted most of the resources allocated to that one version.
If you simply fix your perspective on the Jaguar you can think it's a conspiracy, but if go ahead and realize how poor was Atari's condition at that point (especially compared to Sony's) it makes all the sense in the world to commit your resources to any platform other than the Jaguar.


Edited by Barone, Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:51 PM.


#330 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:53 AM

We've already seen Atari asking Probe to try and ensure it's efforts on Batman Arcade meant the Jaguar version was as good as, if not better than the Saturn and PlayStation version :

https://goo.gl/images/rPkKa4

So it's no great leap of faith to expect people like Sony to ask for similar conditions when looking at versions of multi platform games for their system.

It's the nature of the video games industry, you want your version to appear to be the best.

#331 Gummy Bear OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:22 AM

And Batman Arcade for the Jag is going to be SO good that they are still working on it!

#332 82-T/A OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:44 PM

The Great Big Bumper Book of Tales From My Ass, authored by Ultra Bitter Fanbois.

 

 

I couldn't find this on Amazon. Do you have an ISBN for it? Sounds like an awesome read!



#333 agradeneu OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:01 AM

Does anyone know if those Rayman sprites are 256 color sprites or 16 bit? I know the background tiles are 16 bit, but I mean the enemies and stuff.

I think its 256

Looks like the Rayman character sprite is actually 16 bit - I've isolated the sprite from a Jaguar screenshot/capture and converted it to 8 bit indexed with GIMP - all the smooth color blending is gone! Since I assume the character is made of smaller sprites it fits well into the Jags RAM while achieving very fluid high frame rate animation.. Don't know about the other sprites but I guess they are 16 bit as well. 



#334 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:10 AM


3DO crowd seemed happy to engage in Da Conspiracy stuff back in the day

David Liu aka The Dragon from Way Of The Warrior:


How bout this tantalizing piece of news to chew on?

A little bird told me that the reason ID Software is/was reluctant to either do DOOM/3DO itself or let another
company do DOOM/3DO is because Atari is paying ID an obscene amount of $$$$$$$$$$$$ to both make Doom for
the Jag and to "slow" (stop?) efforts to port Doom to the 3DO
Hmmmmmmm...

This info, while perhaps sounding fishy, is consistent with some confirmed data about Atari and its relation to certain
developers.  Personally, I would like to see developers and platform companies in a nice tight happy relationship,
but not THAT tight so as to exclude the possibilities of moving great games to other great platforms.  Do I smell Nintendo-esque stench here?




So Sony are behind everything..no wait Atari did the dirty on 3DO but Nintendo were doing it to others before this. ..and so on.

This is another example of why these industry insider nudge nudge type claims about versions of games for rival platforms were somehow sabotaged, always need further research.

#335 Zerosquare OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:37 AM

Atari paying a developer "an obscene amount of $$$$$$$$$$$$" in the Jag days? Yeah, right :)



#336 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:19 AM

Atari paying a developer "an obscene amount of $$$$$$$$$$$$" in the Jag days? Yeah, right :)


It's the absurd industry quote of the day for me and highlights just how laughable these type of claims often are. .

David was i believe a play tester for 3DO version of PO'ed and voice of a character in Way Of The Warrior?

Love his use of phrases like a little bird told me...confirmed information (yet no sources given as grounding)..etc.

Classic tin foil hat stuff

#337 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 2, 2019 2:57 PM

Another one..ok so Worms was finally released on Jaguar by Telegames, right at the end of the Jaguar's commercial life, but apparently there was a claim by Ocean Software in Game Players Magazine..issue #88 ( not a magazine i am familar with) that they offered it to Atari over 18 months earlier, but Atari were not that interested in it.


That i can believe as Atari's Marketing department killed things like Death watch.

But does anyone have said magazine claim?.

#338 PeterG OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 4, 2019 3:44 AM

Another one..ok so Worms was finally released on Jaguar by Telegames, right at the end of the Jaguar's commercial life, but apparently there was a claim by Ocean Software in Game Players Magazine..issue #88 ( not a magazine i am familar with) that they offered it to Atari over 18 months earlier, but Atari were not that interested in it.


That i can believe as Atari's Marketing department killed things like Death watch.

But does anyone have said magazine claim?.


Don't have anything on paper but I also heard or read that Atari first refused Worms until it apparently became a hit.

#339 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 4, 2019 4:30 AM

I could understand the reluctance of both Atari and Sony,when presented with something like Worms when media attention was very much focused on texture mapped 3D, back in the 16 bit era, Lemmings was something you simply had to play to understand it's brilliance, there was not much for marketing to work with,imagery wise..


But this is the Atari that wanted Sensible Soccer,Cannon Fodder (maybe names enough here to warrant?) Baddies, developed itself Attack Of The Mutant Penguins etc...

Odd times..

#340 agradeneu OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 4, 2019 4:58 AM

Nontheless I think Worms was developed for the Amiga as the leading platform.


Edited by agradeneu, Mon Mar 4, 2019 4:58 AM.


#341 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 4, 2019 6:08 AM

Yep.

Amiga 1st.

#342 Lynxpro OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 4, 2019 3:41 PM

3DO crowd seemed happy to engage in Da Conspiracy stuff back in the day

David Liu aka The Dragon from Way Of The Warrior:


How bout this tantalizing piece of news to chew on?

A little bird told me that the reason ID Software is/was reluctant to either do DOOM/3DO itself or let another
company do DOOM/3DO is because Atari is paying ID an obscene amount of $$$$$$$$$$$$ to both make Doom for
the Jag and to "slow" (stop?) efforts to port Doom to the 3DO
Hmmmmmmm...

This info, while perhaps sounding fishy, is consistent with some confirmed data about Atari and its relation to certain
developers.  Personally, I would like to see developers and platform companies in a nice tight happy relationship,
but not THAT tight so as to exclude the possibilities of moving great games to other great platforms.  Do I smell Nintendo-esque stench here?

So Sony are behind everything..no wait Atari did the dirty on 3DO but Nintendo were doing it to others before this. ..and so on.

This is another example of why these industry insider nudge nudge type claims about versions of games for rival platforms were somehow sabotaged, always need further research.

 

 

As if EA/3DO didn't play dirty.

 

It appears Trip Hawkins finally paid off the State of California - or entered into some settlement - since he's no longer on the Franchise Tax Board's list of top tax delinquents.



#343 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 4, 2019 4:32 PM

There have been some very, ahem, choice words about Trip from the very people who worked with him at 3DO over the years.

His hands just as plastered as any in the industry at the time.

It's why these conspiracy claims are so amusing, the industry was built on anything but fair play.

#344 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 4, 2019 5:56 PM

Zero 5 coder M.G. sums up the Atari Vs Sony situation quite well


Sony actually made an effort to get as many developers as possible
writing games for their console - I'd say that was smart. Atari
didn't, and furthermore, treated the few developers they DID have like
shit. Or was that just us?

=)

Views expressed are that of M.G etc

#345 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:40 AM

Right..somebody is going to have to school me here, never been a fan of the Mega Man games...


So, Mega Man 8...

Sony initally REJECT for North America as push is on 3D games for the Playstation ( if true this joins Worms etc and adds further proof to concept they really, really would not of been overly concerned about getting Rayman or having best version of Zoop as 2D just was not the marketing focus at all.)

But then kick off once they realise the Saturn was getting it, so demand some exclusive content for the Playstation version and decide to release it in North America?

That sounding about right?.

#346 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:55 PM

Right..somebody is going to have to school me here, never been a fan of the Mega Man games...


So, Mega Man 8...

Sony initally REJECT for North America as push is on 3D games for the Playstation ( if true this joins Worms etc and adds further proof to concept they really, really would not of been overly concerned about getting Rayman or having best version of Zoop as 2D just was not the marketing focus at all.)

But then kick off once they realise the Saturn was getting it, so demand some exclusive content for the Playstation version and decide to release it in North America?

That sounding about right?.


Saturn version is the one that ended up with exclusive content, not the other way around.

#347 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:11 PM

Ahhh... appreciated.

Did it go onto sell well on either format?

#348 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:31 AM

Ahhh... appreciated.

Did it go onto sell well on either format?


It became a Greatest Hit on PS1, so my guess is it sold well enough.

#349 travistouchdown OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:21 AM

So what happened to the source code for this "improved graphics version" of Rayman for jaguar?   Let get that on a cart! :) 






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