JagChris Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I find this to the closest thing to the truth/reality: Why spend money on marketing twice, when you can launch everything at once with a solid marketing around it. Perhaps but I do remember what appeared to be a long delay between what seemed to be a finished Rayman on the Jaguar and its release. It would seem from a marketing standpoint you would want return on your investment as soon as possible. Why sit on a game for a year? Unless you were being compensated. Even in the early 2k's word was Sony was still buying off release dates until a rumor that M$ flipped the tables on them and did it back to them. I can't remember what game it was. The differences in gameplay testify to a significant time difference in the timeline of development of the Jaguar vs the PSX/Saturn. If they were all done concurrently then the gameplay would be the same across the versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 It was almost certainly marketing bang for the buck, especially when you consider how badly the Jaguar was floundering. There was no way it was going to carry the game to success by itself. In any case, Ubisoft does the exact same thing today, i.e., delaying games until they're ready for release on several platforms instead of just one. In today's scenario, Wii U owners felt the brunt of the decisions to wait, and it's obviously not surprising since that platform has been the slowest seller and poorest performer for third party titles. The key obviously that some people don't understand is that these decisions are never personal, i.e., they don't hate platform x or want platform x to fail, just business/simple economics. The impetus is on the hardware makers to create a hot product that all developers/publishers have no choice but to support. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 @NeoGeoNinja:Disruptor was down as a launch title for the ill-fated 3DO M2/Bulldog if my memory serves, though it'd had a lot higher polygon count than PS1 ver. along with other fancy graphic effects i expect. As for the Rayman/Sony conspiracy?. Never personally bought into it, Sony were 'reluctant' at the time to embrace the 2D aspects of the Playstation, rumour had it they took some convincing to have Worms on PS1 (though that might be yet more Urban Myth) and Rayman was'nt that highly rated by mainstream press, think C+VG reviewers basically advised Jaguar owners to buy it, PS1/Saturn owners, this was'nt the type of game you bought your CD-based, 32 Bit Super consoles for, type attitude. I've often considered it just fourtunate that given how Jaguar projects were dropping like the proverbial flies, at the time, it arrived on Jaguar at all and did'nt just end up on PS1/Saturn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johannesmutlu Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Sounds too cool to be true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 The Jaguar would've done better had Rayman been released the year earlier. Even cart-based, it's still a visually impressive title for the era. Hell, it's still visually impressive. There's a lot of suspected con-spiracy surrounding the death of the Jaguar. Look at those solid 5 ratings [out of 10] that AvP received from EGM. That's either pure insanity or it was deliberately orchestrated against a game that was considered the console's other killer app [besides Tempest 2000]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Look at those solid 5 ratings [out of 10] that AvP received from EGM. That's either pure insanity or it was deliberately orchestrated against a game that was considered the console's other killer app [besides Tempest 2000]. I'd rate AvP 5 out of 10. Just sayin'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 The Jaguar would've done better had Rayman been released the year earlier. Even cart-based, it's still a visually impressive title for the era. Hell, it's still visually impressive. There's a lot of suspected con-spiracy surrounding the death of the Jaguar. Look at those solid 5 ratings [out of 10] that AvP received from EGM. That's either pure insanity or it was deliberately orchestrated against a game that was considered the console's other killer app [besides Tempest 2000]. Define "better"? Even 10,000 more console units sold because of a small Rayman exclusivity window would have still had the same end result. Any failings ultimately had nothing to do with external forces and it's extraordinarily unlikely there was any concerted effort to undermine Atari (or any other company for that matter). It was Atari's botched launch window of too few software releases and poor third party support, combined with too many titles that didn't distinguish themselves from late gen 16-bit software that failed to generate any momentum for the Jaguar in its first year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 There's a lot of suspected con-spiracy surrounding the death of the Jaguar. Look at those solid 5 ratings [out of 10] that AvP received from EGM. That's either pure insanity or it was deliberately orchestrated against a game that was considered the console's other killer app [besides Tempest 2000]. I don't know that there's any conspiracy. Clueless management at Atari, crap controller (3 buttons), lots of crap games, crap 3rd party support. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Define "better"? Even 10,000 more console units sold because of a small Rayman exclusivity window would have still had the same end result. Small exclusivity window? A year is a large one in the industry. That's birthdays and holidays. The buzz around Rayman was HUGE when it was shown and announced for the Jaguar. And hype goes a long way. And still does. Even for crap or mediocre *cough*Avatar*cough*. I remember that much for sure. Everyone was watching it and going oooh! at the screenshots. If it had came out a year earlier would it have saved the Jaguar? I don't know. It definitely would have helped. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The buzz around Rayman was HUGE when it was shown and announced for the Jaguar. Was it? "HUGE" to me was the buzz around something like Donkey Kong Country for the SNES, not Rayman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBrian Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I do remember back in the day before I had a SNES or right after I got one my friend talking and talking about Donkey Kong Country so I bought it without knowing anything about it . Wow was I glad I got that game ! I played it non stop when I fractured my ankle and couldnt walk for weeks or longer . Still at the very top of my list of all time games for any console . Along with part 2 and part 3 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Even assuming it was a full year of exclusivity (and not more like 6 months or so), again I ask what impact to console sales it really would have made? The Jaguar never sold a lick, period, so one game based around a new IP (and a platformer to boot) was not going to put it over the tipping point. The Jaguar couldn't even see the tipping point in terms of sales. They just weren't there, period. Rayman would have had to have been in that first year of the Jaguar's existence and paired up with several other killer titles to even begin to make an impact on the final outcome of the console. Selling a few hundred thousand consoles over its entire lifetime really puts a damper on most 'what if?' scenarios for the Jaguar, unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Was it? "HUGE" to me was the buzz around something like Donkey Kong Country for the SNES, not Rayman. It was definitely comparable. It was a high powered platformer on one of the new consoles and Raymans beauty, impressive even today by your own words was heralded as a peek at what was to come in next generation gaming. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Even assuming it was a full year of exclusivity (and not more like 6 months or so), again I ask what impact to console sales it really would have made? The Jaguar never sold a lick, period, so one game based around a new IP (and a platformer to boot) was not going to put it over the tipping point. The Jaguar couldn't even see the tipping point in terms of sales. They just weren't there, period. Rayman would have had to have been in that first year of the Jaguar's existence and paired up with several other killer titles to even begin to make an impact on the final outcome of the console. Selling a few hundred thousand consoles over its entire lifetime really puts a damper on most 'what if?' scenarios for the Jaguar, unfortunately. I think it would have helped a bit. Especially as good a platformer as it is with a year of exclusivity it might have made Atari worry about their inventory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willard Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) Rayman would have had to have been in that first year of the Jaguar's existence and paired up with several other killer titles to even begin to make an impact on the final outcome of the console. I think it would have helped a bit. Especially as good a platformer as it is with a year of exclusivity it might have made Atari worry about their inventory. Maybe it would've also given other third party developers more confidence in the Jaguar had it come out in the first year too. The Jaguar already had some other "killer titles" in the first year like T2K, AVP, Doom, and Iron Soldier. We may have seen a notable impact on the system (but probably not enough to change much). I think Atari still would've needed a few dozen top games to go with it, including a lot more popular ports (the Jaguar was missing a lot of critical ones, like earthworm jim and mortal kombat II, that should've been top priority). If you look at just a few hyped SNES games from '94 alone: Blackthorne, Bubsy II, Clayfighter TE, Donkey Kong, Earthworm Jim, Final fantasy III, Mega Man X, Mortal Kombat II, Stunt Race FX Then add the existing catalogue and countless games based on popular IP's like Mickey Mania, Lion King, Power Rangers, spiderman .etc Then compare that to what Atari was offering it's not all that hard to see that Atari fumbled pretty bady. Edited June 8, 2015 by Willard 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) I don't understand why people think that the success of a product hangs on the balance of one single thing, in this case game. It is normal for a single very bad decision to mess up any chances for good, but when it comes to success it's a lot of things that have to come together, that is why success is hard to achieve and instead failure creeps up at each step. Rayman alone in 1994 would not have made a difference, just another pretty platform in 1994 would not have changed the fact that people wanted 3D and the Jag was ill equipped for those games especially in comparison to PS1 which caught also Sega by surprise. There's no denying that when it comes to 2D games the Saturn was something else but very few cared, it was the coming of age of 3D gaming for the masses and nothing can change that. Edited June 8, 2015 by phoenixdownita 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I don't understand why people think that the success of a product hangs on the balance of one single thing, in this case game. It is normal for a single very bad decision to mess up any chances for good, but when it comes to success it's a lot of things that have to come together, that is why success is hard to achieve and instead failure creeps up at each step. Rayman alone in 1994 would not have made a difference, just another pretty platform in 1994 would not have changed the fact that people wanted 3D and the Jag was ill equipped for those games especially in comparison to PS1 which caught also Sega by surprise. There's no denying that when it comes to 2D games the Saturn was something else but very few cared, it was the coming of age of 3D gaming for the masses and nothing can change that. I think Rayman in 1994 would have made a difference. It may have pushed sales to the 3do's levels. PSX and Saturn weren't even around yet so the 3D era hadn't begun and everyone was jazzed about the new possibilities of all their known favorite style of games(2D platform) Thousands of colors huge sprites. Sound, music and effects like the next generation was hyped up to be. Rayman as an exclusive Jaguar title for a year would have sold systems. Would it have saved the Jaguar? I doubt it. It would have made a difference though. It would have given the Jaguar more credibility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) I don't buy it. Even if every single Jag owner would have bought it it would not have made a difference. Even if it could have doubled the user base of Jag still it was not enough, not alone. Given this is just an opinion, like yours, I would refrain from convincing you and I'd ask you do the same. I for once didn't care about it way back when on any platform in 95, in 94 I still probably would have sidestepped it, at the time I was all in on PC 3D based games Doom, Doom II, Heretic, Hexen etc.... Edited June 8, 2015 by phoenixdownita 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I don't buy it. Even if every single Jag owner would have bought it it would not have made a difference. Even if it could have doubled the user base of Jag still it was not enough, not alone. Given this is just an opinion, like yours, I would refrain from convincing you and I'd ask you do the same. I for once didn't care about it way back when on any platform in 95, in 94 I still probably would have sidestepped it, at the time I was all in on PC 3D based games Doom, Doom II, Heretic, Hexen etc.... You bet. And we'll just have to agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Define "better"? Even 10,000 more console units sold because of a small Rayman exclusivity window would have still had the same end result. Could have given us 3, 4 more games before R.I.P... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It's ALL opinion, because this is all speculation and not history, but when you're talking the numbers that Jaguar sold, it's safe to say that Rayman clearly would not have made an appreciable difference. Like I said earlier, that tipping point was beyond reach after the Jaguar's poor year one, so a system selling game in year two (and again, I don't buy the argument Rayman was a system seller) wouldn't have mattered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I don't understand why people think that the success of a product hangs on the balance of one single thing, in this case game. It is called religion, and that "one single thing" is the salvation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Could have given us 3, 4 more games before R.I.P... Can you elaborate? The only thing that might have gotten more games released would have been if the Jaguar lasted on the market longer. There are few scenarios we can envision where sales would have been high enough to allow Atari to remain independent for even a little bit longer. Again, we're talking historically low sales for a major system at this time, so we're talking LOTS of things needing to have changed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Can you elaborate? The only thing that might have gotten more games released would have been if the Jaguar lasted on the market longer. There are few scenarios we can envision where sales would have been high enough to allow Atari to remain independent for even a little bit longer. Again, we're talking historically low sales for a major system at this time, so we're talking LOTS of things needing to have changed. Just saying... *hick*. No I can't elaborate, just ran out on iq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It is called religion, and that "one single thing" is the salvation. Quit being jerks. This is just a discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.