Disk Dysphoria

[Maxxx_Orbison]

Hey everyone. This is my first post. I'm sorry about the wall of text but this turned into equal parts plea for help and venting frustrations. I'm on my phone so I'm not going to go back and edit. Please bare with me.

 

So after some trouble getting things up and going with an 1040stf a few years ago, I recently decided to try again at using it as a midi sequencer with my synth rig. I went on eBay and picked up a copy KCS Omega with a few other disks bundled in, got them home, fired up Omega, confirmed that it worked, had no idea what I was doing, decided to check out other disks.

 

Here's where the trouble starts.

 

I read the read me files and noted that most of the games most likely required a color monitor (I only have monochrome). I already had a copy of altered beast which would run fine, (audio worked, controls functioned) just the video was a bit scrambled, so I figured I could run the programs to see if the disks were still working. I try to run one and it acts like it's loading for maybe 5 sec before exiting back to desktop. I thought that was strange so I tried another and it does the same thing. I assume it's probably an error of some sort on my end and try to go back to omega only now it tells me disk may be corrupted! I think "This can't be right. It worked fine no 10 min ago" so I hit retry and get the same message. I hit cancel and it brings up the file window where all of the text is garbled nonsense. It even has a header of (($;""!/a@&6j())/ of xxkb available. So that's startling. I open a file and all of the text inside is normal. "Okay", I exit the file and everything is back to being as it should. "Huh", I open the program and "your disk may be corrupted..." I have to reset and then the disk won't appear. Take it out, put it back, corruption error, take it out, put it back, no problems, program won't run, reset, garble nonsense. Try a different disk, corruption error, rage quit.

 

That was yesterday. Today I tried again and everything seemed to be going okay. No error, no random bs text, loads to the starting screen of omega, then the corruption error. Wth? So I try a disk I know works for certain. I pop in altered beast and run the .prg. It load for 10-15 sec and then I get three bombs and it shoots me back to the desktop.

 

Is my disk drive failing? Is it my ram? Do I need to reset my chips? Should I just give up and buy a Mist? I've put so much time and money into this machine and every time I think "This is it! It's finally going to do what I need it to do!"I It's like it hears me and says "not on my watch" and I'm another $80 in the hole.

 

TL;DR: My atari is a money pit and should be burned but it won't happen because my ego demands that I wrestle it into submission.

[Justin Payne]

So, how familiar are you with your 1040stf? The reason why I ask this is that you're trying to run Altered Beast, a low res color game, on a high res monochrome monitor. Knowing that sort of info is sort of the basics.

Monochrome monitors will allow you to have a desktop that will display 640x400 with two colors, which is great for giving the most screen space possible. I also love how sharp the monochrome image looks but you're correct about the games being mostly color (and mostly low res (320x200 - 16 color)). There are some games that play in monochrome. Here is a list (http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4791).

 

The three bombs you're getting is an Address Error and could be caused by running the color game on the mono monitor. One would hope the coder of the app would check the existing resolution before continuing on running the app but don't count on it.

So, before going any further, what disks are you trying to run and do you know if they will display on a monochrome monitor?

 

Also, why is your Atari a money pit. It seems like so far you paid for it and some software. That doesn't seem like a money pit to me.

 

To be honest, I'm getting a "freak out" vibe from ya. I suggest taking a deep breath and just start by reading the manual. If you don't have one, you can read one here. (http://www.atarimania.com/documents-atari-st-manuals_2_S.html)

 

After you read that you might be able to figure out your current issues. If not, come back and we can work to identify the problem and, hopefully, give you a solution.

 

[Maxxx_Orbison]

So, how familiar are you with your 1040stf? The reason why I ask this is that you're trying to run Altered Beast, a low res color game, on a high res monochrome monitor. Knowing that sort of info is sort of the basics.

 

When I bought altered beast back in 2011 my st hadn't even been shipped. It wasn't until I tried to run that I realized it was incompatible. But it did run, it was just a staggering of ghost images all spread across each other. It was confusing but still discernible. Since it was the only program I had at the time, I tried playing it for the novelty and it was still pretty fun in a way. I managed to beat the first boss once. For the years that I've had this stored away in my closet, I've periodically taken it out and booted it up to make sure everything was still working and altered beast had always run without a hitch (except for the obvious problem of being a color game on a monochrome

display)

 

So, before going any further, what disks are you trying to run and do you know if they will display on a monochrome monitor?

 

Mainly I'm trying to run Dr. T's KCS Omega which is perfectly capable running on a monochrome display, it just doesn't seem to want to run. Other then that, I'm having trouble even viewing the contents of the disks half the time. Some times it won't recognize that a disk is present, some times there are items missing that reappear if I enter, then exit a folder. Sometimes the text is all scrambled. I don't think it has anything to do with the monitor.

 

Also, why is your Atari a money pit. It seems like so far you paid for it and some software. That doesn't seem like a money pit to me.

 

I originally bought my atari to run cubase. I bought the program an dongle for about $150, a midex+ for $50, a Steinberg SMP II for $100, a VGA adapter, a monitor splitter, and various cables. Turned out the midex+ wasn't rated for US power and it nearly killed my whole system, melting a hole through the cubase dongle in the process. The dongle still worked for a couple weeks but it finally quit on me which meant no cubase, which meant no SMP II. Just an atari and a unplayable copy of altered beast. Discouraged and disappointed, I put my atari away and started looking at hardware sequencing solutions.

 

I moved recently and in the process became interested in my atari again and bought an ultrasatan, never coming across the information pertaining to the TOS version restrictions (I'm running 1.0) until it was too late. So I decided to keep it simple and just buy some software. I bought a few Dr. T programs off eBay, a trackball mouse, and a midi expander that plugs into the modem port. About $120. And now my software might all be turning into garbage as I feed it to my artari disk by disk. It's a bit upsetting.

 

 

To be honest, I'm getting a "freak out" vibe from ya. I suggest taking a deep breath and just start by reading the manual. If you don't have one, you can read one here. (http://www.atarimania.com/documents-atari-st-manuals_2_S.html)

 

After you read that you might be able to figure out your current issues. If not, come back and we can work to identify the problem and, hopefully, give you a solution.

 

I know that I'm freaking out some and it really isn't helping. I'm trying to keep my cool and I really appreciate you trying to help. My freinds all think I'm crazy for trying to use an atari for anything, let alone music, and especially after I got burned with that midex. I read through the manual (the falcon one, the stfm manual was in Finnish) and learned a little, but not really anything that helps in this situation. The only things I can think it might be is that either the drive is failing and possibly corrupting my disks in the process or the ram is not working as intended for one reason or another. I don't know how to test these theories or how fix them if they're correct. I tried formatting a disk to see if I could, and I could, so I'm leaning towards it maybe being the ram. Any thoughts? Edited March 15, 2015 by Maxxx_Orbison

[Justin Payne]

MORE SOFTWARE: So, the great news for games is that now they're online so you're not forced to play Altered Beast on a monochrome monitor. You can actually play games designed for the monitor you're using. Of course, getting a monitor that will support color would be a "nice to have" but let's do baby steps first since you've already invested time, money, and effort into this.

 

ULTRASATAN: So, you've got an ultrasatan but it's limited to specific TOS's. It seems like what you want to do it update your TOS to a newer version. There are many people here that can tell you what you need to do it. In fact, I bet if you do a quick search, you'll find out the info you need. It's probably a cheap and inexpensive upgrade. Then you can just dump the software onto the SDCard. Now, the one limitation of the ST (and computers from around that time) was the fact that hard drives were expensive and so no one had them. Developers didn't always take hard drives into account and so you couldn't just install or copy them to the hard drive and expect them to run.
I'm not that familiar with the Ultrasatan but I did a quick look and only saw a TOS compatibility when you formatted the drive with TOS&DOS partitions, which is desirable since this would allow you to slap the SDCard into your PC and copy files right over. That doesn't mean you couldn't format it with TOS only. It's just that you could do what I previously mentioned. Since an TOS upgrade could solve the problem (as well as patch bugs that previous version of TOS had. TOS 1.0 had many), it sounds like a good idea to do so.

 

BAD DISK: It's possible the drive is going bad. Do you have access to a floppy drive on the PC? If so, you can read that disk and copy over the contents with hopes of making a backup just in case something goes wrong. Also, it's possible there is a copy out on the Internet or you could just contact the author and see if you can get another copy. You have options so I wouldn't worry too much.

 

YOU'RE CRAZY: Well, that's not the first time I've heard that sort of thing. I mean, we look at computers as a tool. When you look at how limiting the older computer were and how difficult it is to resurrect them, people can consider it crazy. But, why is it crazy to resurrect an old computer but not for an old car or airplane? It's just a piece of history that, to some, is important to keep alive. A lot of it also has to do with nostalgia. I have fond memories of getting my first and second computer. It was a time when computers were not commonplace and so you knew something that other people didn't, Now we all have computers and they're slick GUI's make them very accessible. Of course, the first PC I built was just a beige box. Yes, the guts were memorable but did the case have character? Not really. These older systems did. It was when everyone was making computers with their own OS's. Now a days, I guess you have three (Apple, Windows, Linux). Not exactly that interesting.

 

Lot's of people have done what you're doing right now and so they will be able to get you over your hurdles. I think the only thing we all ask is that you try to learn about the system you own. A little effort on your part is always appreciated. If you've done your due diligence and still can't get it, others are generally willing to help. Those who have that, "do it for me" will probably get little attention.

[Maxxx_Orbison]

I bought the ultrasatan to be my means of transferring between my laptop and my atari but later found, after having the partitioning of my sd card dissolved, that the recommended minimum was TOS 1.62. So I've given up trying to use it with my stf since the highest it can operate is 1.04. I currently have no way to transfer files to or from a PC.

 

I have done quite a bit of research, reading through these and other forums. I feel like maybe your assuming I don't know things that I do. I've been through plenty of trouble shooting and trial and error and have dug through the dusty and abandoned bits of the internet looking for information and resources on programs and hardware compatibility. I haven't found anyone describing what I've encountered and I can't trust my instincts because they haven't developed yet. My knowledge on my machine is a fractured and disconnected collage of what I've encountered looking for answers to specific questions. I'm sorry if I come across as whining or entitled but I really am trying my best to understand short of taking an intro to computer science course. I just need some help trouble shooting is all.

[+DarkLord]

TOS v1.04 is absolutely fine with the Ultrasatan.

 

You just need to open up your ST and see if its a 6 chip or 2 chip version of

TOS and buy accordingly. After that, it's just a matter of popping the old chips

out and the new ones in.

 

TOS 1.04 has many significant advantages over earlier TOS versions. Do

yourself a favor. Upgrade.

[Justin Payne]

Maxxx,

 

Check out this thread. It shows what a two chip TOS layout looks like as well as all of the existing sockets for a 6 chip.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/231442-where-is-the-best-place-to-buy-atari-1040stfm-tos-104-roms/

Also, you'll probably find some threads where people talk about buying 1.04. Depending on where you're located, you might be able to find someone to burn them for ya. I haven't upgraded my TOS in my ol' ST yet so I'm not the best person to talk to for that experience.

 

Yes, I got the impression that you were new to the ST due to you post and that I didn't have other posts of yours to go off of to gage your experience.

 

Do you have any blank floppies? I'm sure we can round up some diagnostic software to help identify any system problems you have.

[Zogging Hell]

If you have a PC with a floppy disk KCS Omega was on an ST Format disk so you can easily get a new copy from Exxos' site..

 

http://stos.atari.st/stf.htm

 

its on cover disk 54b.

There's also some other midi stuff on there to play with. You might want to look on atarimusic.net for some useful downloads if you are on a budget.

Your disk drive may have got some gunk on the drive head from some of the other disks you tried, this would cause all the problems with other disks that once loaded not working. You could clean it with a floppy disk drive head cleaner disk (these were still available last time I checked) or if not isopropyl alcohol on a q-tip used to clean the head will be the best option. You can also put a couple of drops on a problem disk, and then rotate it a couple of times (So the cleaning cloth inside will asorb the crud) or gently clean the surface using the alcohol and a q-tip.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Zogging Hell

[Zogging Hell]

I don't know whether it is possible to softload a later TOS version with the Ultrasatan but it might work as a stop-gap solution if you want to try no cost at all solution.

 

Try the software here..

 

http://piters.tripod.com/atari/tosload.htm

 

You would need to load the new TOS from floppy first and then boot from the Ultrasatan

Edited March 17, 2015 by Zogging Hell

[galax]

Games designed for only low res colour won't work too well if at all in high res mono. A list of mono compatible games is here: http://atari.8bitchip.info/allmonocg.html

many are hard disk (Ultrasatan) adapted and downloadable from http://atari.8bitchip.info/fromhd.php

and http://dbug.kicks-ass.net/patch.php

 

I bought the ultrasatan to be my means of transferring between my laptop and my atari but later found, after having the partitioning of my sd card dissolved, that the recommended minimum was TOS 1.62. So I've given up trying to use it with my stf since the highest it can operate is 1.04. I currently have no way to transfer files to or from a PC.

 

You should be able to transfer files from your PC just fine with earlier TOS versions, as far as I know the pre TOS 1.4 bugs have the potential to cause corruption when you write to the disk. Keep everything backed up, and just re-partition your SD card if you do get corruption again.

I feel like maybe your assuming I don't know things that I do.

Unfortunately no-one on here has any way to work out exactly what you know. As there appear to be some gaps in your knowledge, you might have to put up with people who are trying to help stating thing that you already know.

Edited April 1, 2015 by galax