Torr Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) I think game difficulty is more a "perception" than an objectively measurable quantity, and that perception can get skewed by questionable game design decisions. For example, even if two games have effectively identical gameplay and in-game challenge, the one that sends you back to the very beginning of a level when you die probably "feels" more difficult than the game that just starts you up where you left off, because the off-putting frustration of being sent to the start is so discouraging. If you're into emulation (or maybe you own the game already), fire up a Sega Genesis emulator, load Ecco the Dolphin and use this password <KUVEKMLK> to jump to one of the final levels called 'The Tube'. You'll learn the definition of difficult. You are given 0 (zero) margin of error. Do it perfect or don't do it all. You can 'practice' all day until a combination of memorization and fluke allows you get past this level. The funny thing is you have infinite lives and at this point in the game you don't even have a health bar anymore, just the air meter, which refills itself. When you have infinite lives and regenerating health (air) and it's STILL damn near impossible to clear, that's difficult. I wouldn't even chalk it up to bad programming, because it's not, bad level design maybe... Ecco controls just as well as he did the whole game prior, but it's the fact you must do it perfect. You really can't screw up at all, because if you mess up and bump into ONE obstacle, even though you don't die automatically, you are now 'off course', by which I mean you strayed from the 'perfect' path and now are bound to hit something else and being able to correct yourself is basically impossible. I watched gameplay footage of this on youtube to try and get some hints as to what I should be doing to get through this level, and they are either cheating or have some obscure revision of the game where Ecco's air meter refills ungodly quick (or maybe my version is the wierd one), because I've made the SAME 'mistakes' that the player in the video did and had different results. That is, after bumping into object X, by the the time he bumped into the next object Y, his air meter had completely refilled allowing him to survive the second collision. When I bumped into the same combination of obstacles, the second collision into object Y killed me because my health/air meter had not filled back up yet. Sometimes he was bumping into shit left & right, way more often then I've ever bumped into anything because I'd have died long before. By the end of the level he was using his charge-sonar to clear the objects flying at him. Again, ZERO margin for error. If you don't time your Charge then Sonar button taps properly, you are going to charge headlong into death or charge forward a little then shoot the sonar and still end up in an inopportune position because you moved a little and are most likely going to bump into something now. And you have to shoot a LOT of oncoming objects, every time making a perfect Charged Sonar shot. ------ *EDIT I just tried this level again and discovered that if you have a turbo controller and just hold down A+B on turbo you can shoot pretty much everything in your path. But sometimes he still charges instead of shooting.... it's been made easier but I still haven't cleared it... *DOUBLE EDIT scratch that, the level is no easier... ------ Or try the next level, 'Welcome To The Machine', password <SDDBKMLG>. Same situation only now instead of going straight up the screen your now have 360 degrees of maze constantly moving around you. Oddly I usually last a little longer in this level, but still have never cleared it. This is another game that I attribute to not being playtested by an outsider. ANYONE would have said, "Dude, you gotta slack this level a bit, it's obvious WHAT you have to do, you just made it WAY too hard to accomplish." Kinda like when I used to make Doom levels and get accused by friends of purposely making impossible levels. They weren't impossible to me. When designing and playtesting a level I always found them too easy so I'd add a trick or trap here and there until I finally had a challenge on my hands. It would turn out it was challenging to me but in turn impossible to most anyone else because unlike them I knew where everything was, what was going to react to what, which enemies were deaf and which weren't, where snipers were hidden and what path to take before I even finished typing "DOOM.EXE -FILE C:\WADS\JAIL.WAD". Edited March 19, 2015 by Torr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Kinda like when I used to make Doom levels and get accused by friends of purposely making impossible levels. They weren't impossible to me. When designing and playtesting a level I always found them too easy so I'd add a trick or trap here and there until I finally had a challenge on my hands. It would turn out it was challenging to me but in turn impossible to most anyone else because unlike them I knew where everything was, what was going to react to what, which enemies were deaf and which weren't, where snipers were hidden and what path to take before I even finished typing "DOOM.EXE -FILE C:\WADS\JAIL.WAD". Reminds me of an edit of Knee Deep In The Dead where I mixed up the location of items, added more monsters, and put at least one Cyberdemon in just about every level. Pretty sweet with coop, and even sweeter if you play with Brutal Doom and rescue two or three marines and get a squad going. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on DOS is murderously difficult, but that's because it's a broken mess. Edited March 20, 2015 by BassGuitari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) EDIT: n/m. Edited March 21, 2015 by BassGuitari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHW Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 The Mega Mans and Ninja Gaidens are tough, but I finished them back in the day, without an inordinate amount of struggle, so I don't know why they keep getting mentioned. Ghosts'n Goblins and Ghouls'n Ghosts are more difficult, definitely some of the hardest games, but not utterly impossible. Contra can be done without the Konami code, if you are a real man. Battletoads is tougher but still doable with dedication and practice. So my nominee for toughest game? Can anyone on all of Atari Age claim to have finished Klax, on any system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Atari_Warlord Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I actually finished Klax on the Lynx. I remember it very well because I was at my Grandparents house and I stayed up till 3 in the morning to finish it. I was very excited, as I didn't think I would be able to do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHW Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I actually finished Klax on the Lynx. I remember it very well because I was at my Grandparents house and I stayed up till 3 in the morning to finish it. I was very excited, as I didn't think I would be able to do it. Video or it didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moodorf Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Battletoads. I never made it past the speeder bike thingie stage. ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Pac Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 My Hero SMS my actual gameplay time could be counted in seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Cafeman Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 It looks like you guys mentioned the same i'd mention, Sinister gets my vote. Even on its easiest setting I can't last more than 3 stages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algus Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I don't know if it's fair to call them hard but to me its games like Silver Surfer NES. I love shooters but jesus, finger fatigue will do me in long before anything else. I ~guess~ a turbo controller would fix that but it is kind of like cheating. I don't have the patience for most side scrollers so even games that many say aren't that hard, I'm like "screw this" Toughest two games I've stuck out for are probably Batman NES and Ninja Gaiden NES. Both are awesome games but I get bored of the same couple of levels over and over again and then I can't progress anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moodorf Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) Classic game = Battletoads, Sky Shark or Mega Man 3. ->Of these I would say only Mega Man 3 is "tough, but fair" Modern game = Bloodborne Edited March 29, 2015 by moodorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulBlazer Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 For a more classic game, my vote goes to Defender. Never could last more then 5 seconds in the arcades on that beast. I do a bit better now in MAME and current home ports, but I recall that arcade machine being SO intimating and daunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramses Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 The hardest game I'd say I've ever played is Megaman Dr. Wiley's Revenge for the Gameboy.To put into perspective just how hard the game is,I've beaten Ghosts N Goblins and Ghouls N Ghosts(which aren't hard games to me as I beat them both on separate occasions in like 4 hours).and to make it worse,I've had the game every since I was a kid and can only beat a single boss(I guess if I try now I could beat it but so far I haven't).I can't think of another game that I've found to be hard.So what are your hardest games/game? Are you serious? I had that one back in the day and I don't remember it being that difficult at all, especially after you beat a boss and get a weapon. The final Dr Wily stage might have been a little difficult, but not worse than Mega Man 1 on the NES. The funny thing is I find Ghost n Goblins very difficult and I don't think I've ever made it past level 2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenegg Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 The hardest game I owned back in the day was Target Earth for the Sega Genesis. That game's brutal. My Hero SMS my actual gameplay time could be counted in seconds. Really? That's one of the easiest games I've ever played. I think I could loop for hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutsy Doodleheimer Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Ghosts n Goblins!! Now that is flipping brutal!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Never beat Contra without the Konami cheat... Tried a few times, but the electrical stage and the truck/spike level wipe me every time... WITH the cheat, I never lose. The original TMNT on the NES was a toughie... Never beat it as a kid, and I really want to give it another go as an adult. Loved that game. The MegaMan games were tough, but I beat all the NES games and Gameboy. Man, I want to go get TMNT, BAAAAAAAD... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) TMNT is no cakewalk, but with practice it DOES get fairly easy. I can beat it pretty well every time I play it now. Once you know the direct route to Splinter in the City and and the easiest route to the Blimp in the Airfield things get much easier. Finding the Technodrome can take going down all 3 manholes, but if you reach a dead end you can refill your health and/or weapons in one of the warehouses before checking the next one, and even rescue a Turtle if you lose one. But you really gotta know the game well. Just randomly taking paths/building will lead to much unnecessary attrition of health and supplies. Know what's in each building to get supplies you need/want, what your going to confront in each underground section (roughly, there is some randomization), and start by taking the easiest manhole in the Foot Base and work you way up to the hardest one hoping you find the Technodrome sooner rather than later! The Technodrome is the hardest hurdle to get practice at, but again, once you know where the goodies are and which paths are better than others, you can clear it pretty well. Just HOPE you have some Kais or, at least, Boomerangs for the final tunnel that keeps getting narrower. Edited April 9, 2015 by Torr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebrate64 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Bangai-O HD: Missile Fury Most games made by CAVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Pac Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 To me it's My Hero SMS That game has only one purpose, kill you with every cheap shot imaginable. The last time I ever played it, I was killed by an invisible object. I sold it the next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrownd Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 For a more classic game, my vote goes to Defender. Never could last more then 5 seconds in the arcades on that beast. I do a bit better now in MAME and current home ports, but I recall that arcade machine being SO intimating and daunting. I don't have much problem with the first level of Defender, but the difficulty ramps up so fast I rarely survive the higher levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrownd Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 So what are your hardest games/game? Global Thermonuclear War Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorussell Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Fighter's History has some of the smartest fighters.. you really need to know how to counter all their attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberTaco Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I'm really surprised no one's mentioned I Wanna Be The Guy: The Movie: The Game. The most sadistic game I have ever seen, ever. It's for PC, free download (Google it), and has a lot of 'in jokes' with classic video games... if you can get to any of them! https://youtu.be/_T3vNtBGd1o?t=36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ransom Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 When I was a little kid, the hardest game was Lunar Lander. I couldn't land that darn thing even once! A bit later on, Star Castle kicked my butt. Couldn't kill it even once. I eventually did better in each of those games, but Sinistar still laughs at my feeble attempts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHW Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 When I was a little kid, the hardest game was Lunar Lander. I couldn't land that darn thing even once! A bit later on, Star Castle kicked my butt. Couldn't kill it even once. I eventually did better in each of those games, but Sinistar still laughs at my feeble attempts. There's different difficulty settings for Lunar Lander. The hardest one is indeed pretty difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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