English Invader Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Six page article in this month's issue (#140) in honour of the ST's 30th anniversary which seems to have been forgotten in all the hype for the Amiga's 30th. Will comment more when I've had a chance to read the article in more depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfox Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) I finally got the issue today and I have read indept the said ST article and if my been honest it doesn't really bring anything new to the table on ST trivia, the machine or its software or even an explored insight to what made the machine the key star it deserved, it does cover the views of a demo scene coder aka Carsten LslCheckpoint Koeckritz and lightly reminiscence of the good old days within the ST demo scene. Daryl Still again is called upon to provide the Atari UK side of things, again very brief, from the way the article has been designed through its layout its actually incredible small as an article and for me doesn't flesh itself as a full article it deserved to be, I get the impression that the magazine as a whole prefers to give games and in some cases 8-10 pages on one game or franchise , this is an milestone computer and given 6 pages, which could of been crammed into 3-4 pages, broken up with a mini technical specification sheet which for some reason also contains an Amiga spec, which it been an Atari ST article has no real business regardless of the 16-bit war that took place all those years ago. There is a mini side bar of Atari ST exclusives that were made for the ST, but at least 6 of them now are widely available on the Amiga platform thanks to code reverse engineering by a talented few, so this information only provides in general the foundation of the games origins, as they are no longer exclusives after 30 years later lol. One game in the list that actually made me laugh as I read and is deemed one of worse video game abominations to come from Probe Software stables "Trantor : The Last Stormtrooper" this has some of the worse coding, collision detection is dire, the graphics are eye ball burning and the gameplay is something the old ST game producing Paradox Software would of produced, it is complete shite! And seems like "I ran out of ideas of games to list, so I'll mention this" suggestion to include this as a top ten ST game? Wtf? Why not " T.N.T " or " Iznogoud " from Infogrames was an amazing Commando clone or Crafton & Xunk aka "Get Dexter" or maybe Micro Style's "Verminator" and that's just four exclusives , we could on and on, over all its a basic articles with nothing new or exclusive other than the memories of the three person briefly interviewed which is simply there personal review of the ST back in the day and a small insight to coding on it by Glenn Corpes of bullfrog, by nothing insightful enough to raise the bar. Again a bog standard feature that deserves a hell of lot more than given. Now a cheap plug , if you are hungry for some Atari ST love with new and old features on this amazing machine as I can do is suggest you check my Atari ST magazine "Atari ST Gamer" for your fix and the trivia in here is great too Have a good one people Edited March 27, 2015 by Greyfox 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMaddog Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Does this add anything more to what was already there with the Shiraz interview? I have that one in The Atari Book... I also recommend The Amiga Book since most of the games in the articles had ST versions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) Whilst i've not read said article, as i cancelled my subscription a good few months back, i've been there throughout the years as both Edge and RG magazines covered the ST to various degrees, RG in particular taking time to ensure the USA and European angles covered, both magazines doing covering the angle of: Making Of's with the likes of Dungeon Master, Carrier Command, Captive etc etc, the games i poured hours into, so i'm curious as to what 'new' material there is left to bring to the table. As for interviews, well...think by now 'we've' all kinda spoken to the key Ex-Atari UK folk in 1 form or another, Darryl Still alone has been featured in:RG, ST Gamer Vol 1, RVG etc so i'd be surprised if he's much more left to add (but i'm eternally grateful to the insights he has given over the years), 1 reason i went after Mr Les Player was to get a differing viewpoint, plus i've covered a good few ST coders for Grumpy Old Gamers, got another 3 lined up for ST Gamer Vol 2.I reached the point where.... Edited March 28, 2015 by Lost Dragon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (Cont) i got a little tired of asking same old questions, so i went after an Amiga only coder, Ian Morgan, to get a viewpoint on why the ST never appealed to him.Is there any kind of alternative viewpoints like this raised in the article or is it just a celebration of the ST?. RG's ST coverage over the years has been a bit hit n miss (and i say this as a paying customer, never commented on an issue i'd not paid for).Writers not aware who converted ST Super Sprint (ATD), put ST Myth as being released (System 3 giving them incorrect info), claiming Defender Of The Crown was released 1st on ST (seems Wikip.was used as a valid research tool on that one). So i'd hope for customers of the day the article offers a decent mix of well covered ground (as the ST is going to be an unknown for many of it's readers i'm sure), but also provides fresh interviews/insights for the long term reader.With the wealth of interviews avaiable online for free, RG with it's clout in the industry should be able to reach out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (cont) beyond the usual i saw you on Facebook, would you mind if i ask you a few questions? type approach.Hearing Glenn C.is at least partly quoted is a good sign, i loved Bullfrog's ST games (Populous, Flood etc).Trouble is, they, like the Bitmaps, Jez San, Core Design etc etc, coders all been interviewed in depth by Edge/RG/RVG etc, so we've heard the stories. Trantor : The Last Stormtrooper-Seriousily? played that on my mates Speccy 128K years ago and later on the C64, it really belonged on the Spectrum where the huge main sprite was technically impressive, but did nothing for the gameplay.Games like that, Dan Dare III etc which pushed the Spectrum, really felt out of place on the ST i found. Is there any info on any of the Lost Games for the ST?.I've fingers crossed here that people who worked on games like Dan Dare, Last Mariner, Commando Wars, Last Ninja 1040ST, Flood 2, Rastan etc etc have been found via RG's contacts and interviewed and we finally get to hear what happened to these games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Anyway, fingers crossed me mate can get a copy, always curious as to how familar hardware is covered in mainstream press. If nothing else it keeps 'Us' on our toes with likes of ST Gamer Vol 2, eh Grey? :-). I'm sure there'll be howls of...waste of space covering the ST, nothing more than a poor mans Amiga, it was rubbish...along with groans of..ohhh god, not more Atari, if not public on RG Forum, but behind the scenes, but the ST does deserve it's place in history, it just sadly lacked enough killer exclusives to get any real milage out of, in terms of repeat coverage i find.What's there to say? ST version had less colours, weaker sound (Jez said both Star Gliders could of used sample sound effects, but it'd of slowed game speed down too much), push scrolling/worse scrolling, 3D was slightly faster etc etc. Hope it notes what a horror it was having joystick/mouse ports underneath the bloody machine, i hated that.Joystick extenders ahoy and if that wretched sound chip gets praise..why i oughta... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ataricrypt Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Yep I'd go for Atari ST Gamer any day over that issue. Disappointing feature. So it's literally a no contest. Now, where's that next issue........? Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Speaking from apersonal point of view regarding the issues faced trying to get 'fresh voices' for features on the ST: As folks will no doubt be aware, Darryl Still was featured on a community interview on RVG (i myself put questions to him there) and i did a follow-up, ST-Specific interview with him for ST Gamer Vol 1. After that i was lucky enought to reach out to likes of Les Player, been in contact with Mike Fulton and various ST coders which folks can find, then read for FREE here: http://www.retrogamer.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50063&hilit=interview+blowout I've a further 3 written up (thanks to Greyfox) for Vol 2 and i've questions sat with another Ex-Atari UK person for a certain feature GTW are planning... Bob Gleadow-I never found, Bill Rebock..i did, but SKYPE was'nt an option, he never replied to any follow-up emails.. The chap doing the Gremlin Graphics book has contacted a good few i could'nt reach, so fellow ST lovers looking for fresh views might like to keep an eye out for that also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfox Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) I personally think that the article based on the ST in this month's Retro Gamer was to me not necessary a filler, but something of a diet light warming welcome to having something celebrating the 30th Anniversary of the machine n Retro Gamer magazine, but again with a lot of these articles that make it into Retro Gamer do I feel come across as limited in content and I very much doubt that, that is at the fault of the author of the articles, but in its defence that they have it in this months issue showing some sort of acknowledgement to the ST is of course is welcomed. But..and it's a big but..the fact that some many opportunities arose here that could of slingshot this to been an exceptional featured based on the ST, with ST Gamer magazine we were able to focus and solely on everything and nothing else but the ST which made having Lost Dragon on board such an incredible asset not resting till he got to the bottom of the story by either his exclusive informative interviews that has made ST Gamer partly what it is so far which I personally thank him for, it may not be grammar proof in places or be a commercial Monthy magazine been done in print or have the backing of investors fitting the bill like retro gamer magazine does, but judging that the author of this months Atari ST feature is an Atari ST fan, failed on so many levels to use his knowledge to create more than a information pamphlet on the ST machine which is were ST gamer differed with not only been ST only publication was the diamond in the ruff to presenting and researching new information and interviews with some incredible Atari ST talent this machine has ever seen that wasn't possibly achievable or was aware off met with the deadline limitation dictated by the I.P. of retro gamer magazine to have it done. But this is what will be given to ST Gamer magazine and will have some eye openers for ST Gamer volume 2 thanks to Lost Dragon and hopefully when all existing projects I'm Working on, one been an Atari related book as the main designer which it been mentioned here at Atari Age first , but can't say anything about it, but I can say is this has a massive following amoungst Atarians and will be something which will be in both multi-media form and physical book form, also to mention my book the Video Game Artistry Compedium which covers the ST in one of its chapters, I will focus on adding additional content for ST Gamer issue 2 to help it go out with a bang as this will be the last, but will cover a huge chuck of Atari ST history and lore for you Atari ST fans Thanks for all the support on this project and give this months ST feature in Retro gamer an easy time, the fact that its even there is a plus, but should of been more than a lite informative intro on the ST, I believe as well as others I've spoken too it certainly did not cater for Atari ST diehards in the know, but rather window on lookers that buy Retro Gamer magazine. Edited March 29, 2015 by Greyfox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Time to get the bunting out people...2015 is my planned 'Retirement Year', in terms of hanging up my researchers hat...long story short i've approached practically every coder and industry bod i personally wanted to 'speak to' about everything A8/ST/Lynx/7800 and Jaguar wise...you've seen the majority of the interviews online, more coming in hopefully (just had 1 A8 coders but not looked at myself yet) and as well as ST Gamer Vol 2, i've been asked for advice on Atari-related items for Unseen 64's forthcoming book and been working with Frank Gasking on 2 Atari related projects of his, so fresh material will be coming before year is out. It's now just a case of waiting for final lot of interviews to limp in, keeping fingers crossed a few will deliver and waiting 6 months for 1 to be free (i'm serious here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 If i thought there was yet more i could cover on the ST, i'd jump to it in an instant, but what's planned to go in, see's me out, if that makes sense.I'm not done yet with the A8, Lynx or Jaguar and have a few surprises up my sleeve yet, but all in good time. But yes, go 'easy' on this months ST article, as i said earlier, it's far from easy finding or contacting new faces to talk on the ST or any of the Atari platforms and if your faced with a deadline of when you have to get your article written and submitted, i guess that closes a good few doors, as i've been waiting months for a lot of my interviews to come back in, as people are understandably extremly busy with real life jobs etc and we should simply be grateful for the time they can spare. I still hope to read this months RG, but as of yet, nothing from my friend in London who's looking out for a copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 In all the time i have given feedback on articles in Retro Gamer Magazine, my comments have never been intended to detract from the valuable contributions any of the Freelancers or in-house staff, have made to the magazine and even in months where there's not been much content for myself, it's not been to say the magazine was worthless. When, as a consumer and long time supporter of any professional publication, as i was with Edge, Gamestm and Retrogamer magazine (all 3 have recieved fair critiscm from myself, but all 3 recieved my money over the years) there simply are standards i expect to be followed as the writers are being paid to produce the articles in question, where as we in the community that simply do this for the love of the subject material, are not.Therefore i personally do not expect to see Wikip and YouTube used as worthy research tools and i'll flag up such things. Yes there are strict deadlines, i'm not expecting 100% accuracy in everything, every article, every month, mistakes creep in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Sources give incorrect information or conflicting information/statements to those they gave years ago, hell age alone effects the memory of all of us, but when your seeoing articles written about versions of games the writer has clearly no idea about, or an historical article based on an era the writer him/herself never 'lived through' as it were at the time, only getting into said hardware years after the events they are describing, or history is being re-written to suit the needs of an advertising partner, it's time to question if that magazine is for you...hence i now longer subscribe to anything like the number of magazines i used to At the end of the day, it's really this simple:Had the likes of RG/Gamestm/Edge etc put the question of:What happened to...the various Lost Games i've put hours into looking into, when they spoke to Carmack, Heath-Smith etc, i'd never of gotten into these interviews.They did'nt, i did and poor proof reading an all, i'm proud to have done them and shared them.End of... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Sorry for triple posts and no, i'm not proud of using a PS3 Browser to log in here, but the technical side of why I.E won't let me sign in is out of my hands... But basically it's this simple:The commercial magazines exist, digital publications like ST Gamer, Classic Console etc exist, the VCS book and hopefully many more will continue to be produced, lessons will be learned along the way by those involved in all i hope, new material continue to be written etc etc.... There will always be the choice of where to go for the information and it'll be the consumers personal choice of where to go for it, what to think of it and how to respond to it.As researchers/writers/designers etc etc, all 'you' can do is the best we can, put out honest, often raw, material and let the reader/viewers decide for themselves.. As a researcher, i've honestly looked into everything i set out to find, so it's time to wind down, finish what was started etc.But there'll be no future interviews done just to stay in the spotlight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Two things: 1) Please do not drag arguments from Facebook over to AtariAge. 2) Please do not use AtariAge as a platform to attack someone else, whether they are an active member or not. 3) Please do talk about the article itself all you'd like, including criticisms, but please base those on the article. If there's factual information in the article that is incorrect, feel free to point it out. Thank you, ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfox Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 understood thanks Albert. I have very much moved on from this incident, I just hope others have too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I'd love to see an interview with Derek Fern of Micro Discount. Wasn't he the one buying the whole contents of the Atari warehouse in Slough following its closure? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 One coder i always held out hopes would be interviewed by likes of:Edge, Gamestm or RetroGamer Magazines as they were always banging on about their industry contacts and exclusive interviews etc, was Steve Bak. He'd of been ideal for the 30 years of ST article, if story is true, he was the 1st UK coder to get his hands on the ST, having driven up to Atari UK HQ to pick his machine up in person. Coding wise:Return To Genesis, Karate Kid 2, James Pond, Leatherneck, Bad Company, Fight Night, Return To Genesis etc...makes him an ideal person, no? I'd of loved to have heard his thoughts on Jez San's 'snipe' at his ST output :-) As it is, had to resort to putting the old ST/Amiga Format interview he did years ago, up on here instead (thanks again to High Voltage for doing that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Ok, this is the 2nd copy of RG i've bought in less than 10 days, not looking to resubscibe :-), but i have to say, after years (as a subscriber) of the Atari Range, let alone the ST, being neglected to a degree despite some superb 1-off articles by likes of Marty G etc, it's great to hear/see a lot more coverage these past 18 months or so... I've not read article proper yet, just skimming, as i tend to do with articles. Bit confused already though, hopefully it's not old age setting in :-) It's fantastic to see Loricel, Thalion, Bitmap Bros, Logotron+Infogrames rightly highlighted for what they did with the ST, without them? my 520STFM would of been sold a lot quicker, however i'm left wondering the screen shots used to highlight the games they produced, don't match the text!. Xenon is referenced, yet screen of Xenon 2 is used, screen from Logotron's Bad Company used, yet not even mentioned in the text. Not a game changer, but just seemed...odd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 The other part (so far) Star Ray used as example of 'proof the ST could do Parallax Scrolling' true, it's a great example, but Steve Bak, who converted Star Ray from the Amiga to the ST, along with Pete Lyon (The ST Dream Team as they were sometimes refered to in UK press) had already proven this with his earlier work, Return To Genesis, which if my memory serves...started out in 1987 as a mere tech.demo, to prove ST could cope with high-speed, horizontal, Parallax scrolling, this demo, was then turned into a full blown game which appearred in 1988, a few months before Star Ray on the ST? My dates might be muddled, been long time since i owned an ST, but personally feel the myth that the ST could'nt do it, was 'put to bed' by Return To Genesis, rather than Star Ray, the latter just added another example... Both being done by same coder, just seemed a little odd to use his 2nd example, but again, no game-changer, just an observation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christos Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Ah Steve Bak, excellent coder, bad game designer... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I wondered how the writer would cover what is too many of us, long term readers, familar ground with the history of the ST and i'm delighted to read things i previousily was'nt awre of, regarding the ST in said article, so full credit for hitting a good balance of familar and new content (of course whats familar to me is going to be new to those unfamilar with the ST). The snippet about Aphex Twin using the ST to this day was brilliant and it was refreshing to hear the views from someone who used the ST for more than a games machine/art/CAD or music, Mr Steve Mitchell using it for PBM. Never tried PBM myself, but it was a regular feature in many UK mags back in the day, so credit here where it's deserved to the writer for putting this aspect in. Worked really well to help portray the ST as a superb all rounder i thought and made for great reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 @Christos:sadly the days of games that should of stayed as technical Showcases are far from over.... Factor 5's (i think) Last Rogue Squadron on Gamecube, plus PS3 Lair, great for showing what hardware was capable of, but utter dogs to play, High Voltage did those FPS games on Wii with loads of 'not thought possible-esq' effects, but games are'nt supposed to be all that great...1st Assains Creed i recal getting something like 4/10 from Gamestm saying it was a game engine in need of a game..or something. Who knows, in 30 years time, maybe people will be saying the same things about entire teams involved on games of these more recent years :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 The choice of games then, this was always going to be a tough one, as the ST (sadly) lacked the killer exclusives it badly needed... A few (personal) niggles..Super Sprint was published by E.A, but converted by A.T.D-That's twice RG have seemingly been unable to name who actually converted it. Enduro Racer-Racers are'nt my thing, but it never seemed to set reviewers on fire (ST Action 59%, 52% in TGM) only version i've played is the C64 ver.(dire) but if ST version is the best, is it the best of a rotten bunch?. Ranarama an odd choice, espically given the comments raised by Steve Turner in the Making Of...featured in Retrogamer Magazine a few months prior (Issue 136).Steve not happy with the jerky animation, visual changes made by Hewsons John Cimming etc, butguess this was writers choice? Trantor:Last Storm Trooper-Never personally heard anyone think of as a coin-op conversion, they might not of been aware of conversions to the C64 or indeed ST, as it seemed very much at home on the ZX Spectrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.