Paul Westphal Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I love the new products for the 8 bit line. But why do you have to search for installation guides/pictures/tips? " here is a new product, it's time to go to forums " WTF? How hard would it be to just type up instructions and take some pics and have ONE link to it all. I'm installing a intimate 1mb into a 800xl, and you would think it would take 10 minutes, but here I am looking for info, and have to go to the hardware store for mounting hardware...Geezuz! I like a good mystery, but really? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I agree. When I got the Incogneto for the 800 it did take some hunting to get instructions. Finally a picture library was sent to me by Stephen and that helped a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Sorry - I do not have any photos or instructions for the 800XL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 http://spiflash.org/index.php/block/26.html http://lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Westphal Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 I have the Candle version 2 ( grey board ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Candle used to supply the boards with Harting connectors, nylon standoffs, screws, etc. Where did you buy it from? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I agree completely about this. I wrote it somewhere else on this forum already. This upgrade is one of the BEST upgrades for your atari 8bit computer. It's one of the very few upgrades I tolerate inside my Atari 8bit computer. The features are awesome, and the upgrade is legendary versatile. But... How in the world is it possible..... That such an amazing upgrade lacks decent documentation. There is documentation yes... and if you have time you'll find everything you need... but the information has gaps and it's like doing some kind of safari through portions of useful and useless information. I purchased a whole stack of the first and second batch from candle, and later two of these from Lotharek. Candle offered a great pacakge with mounting stuff, which was excellent (yes candle, I still appreciate that!), but Lotharek -although I really appreciate his work, and that's from an excellent quality- only shipped the pcb and two flatcables. That's it. No manual, no stuff to mount this magic piece of electronics inside my atari? What did he expect, that I would use hot glue?!? But ok... let's focus on the positive side. It's a true fabulous upgrade, which really adds something to your atari 8bit, while you can always bring your atari back in the original state. Together with Side2 it is even better, and so far I haven't had any serious issues at all. Besides the no documentation (and no mounting stuff from Lotharek), this upgrade gets an A++ from me. With the documentation and right mounting stuff it would receive an A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Ok... let's move on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 There must be an echo here about this topic... Here is a thread that I started when I ran into install problems some time ago with my updated V2 (Candle) Ultimate: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/222360-ultimate-1mb-threads-at-atariage/?hl=%2Bultimate&do=findComment&comment=3151908 Also, here are some pics that should be helpful. I've been meaning to open my XL up and take some photos, so this was a good motivator. No holes drilled, but I did cut down the standoff so that the board is also supported by the SIO jack. Ribbon cable runs under the board, so no chance of a short. The standoff is attached through one of the RF shield pcb holes. I did not cover the battery since there is a half-inch of air under it. But might not be a bad idea to put a piece of tape over it. This Ultimate works fine, and thanks to Jon's UFLASH, it was very easy to get just the way I wanted it. I do like the ribbon cable connectors that Lotharek uses as opposed to those that I received in the V2. Stand-offs can be purchased at most any real hardware store, and I used my own 4-wire header connector, although I'm sure that Candle's would be fine. My 130XE Ultimate is from Lotharek, and I attached the header wires as per his photos. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Westphal Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Thanks for the pics Larry...I'm almost there...I just have to solder the jumpers, and these pictures help a lot..I found another one but these are better. Awesome! The journey is almost over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Westphal Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Got it! It only took me from 9:00 am to 3:00 pm to get it done. Thanks for the responses and pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Got it! It only took me from 9:00 am to 3:00 pm to get it done. Thanks for the responses and pics.Took me 1 month. a8w had to put it in as I broke a connector. Next find info on how to use it.. Happy hunting!! I have a thread on here titled help 600xl u1mb or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Stand-offs can be purchased at most any real hardware store, and I used my own 4-wire header connector, although I'm sure that Candle's would be fine. Hi Larry, My point was not that the u1mb can't be mounted or that it's impossible to get the right stuff. My point is that such a fine piece of atari related electronics deserves better and should come in a complete ensemble with mounting accessories and very well documented installation guide. I'm not a newbie in this area but it took me years before I finally found out what the name was of those white things to put between the u1mb and the motherboard. I am extremely satisfied by the upgrade itself and I can't repeat enough how much I appreciate candles work and the great stuff Lotharek creates and sells. I think my notes here are valuable feedback, which makes pretty much sense when I count the threads about this on this forum. Edited March 25, 2015 by ProWizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hi Marius- I don't disagree at all -- it would be better as a complete kit. But I think it is unlikely to change, and I'm just pointing out my work-arounds. -Larry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) I have the Candle version 2 ( grey board ) I see a white Lotharek board? In which case instructions pertaining to basic installation exist at the foot of the page from which you ordered the board, to be fair. To say - on the Atari Museum Facebook page - that the upgrade arrives with NO instructions isn't accurate. The level of detail of said instructions are up for debate, however. Edited March 26, 2015 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) The absence of a Q&A and troubleshoot guide also is quite glaring. When I installed mine on a XEGS neither Lotharek nor Candle could make sense of my issues until fjc stepped in and as he was making the PBI driver helped me pinpoint that my CF was not compatible. On top of that until his latest uFlash and up to date SideL were available I had to flash via EPROM burner as I couldn't do anything via Side2 alone. So yeah, such a marvelous piece of engineering but way too rough on the edges, now things are much better than just 1Y ago but it is saddening that it does not come with all that is needed to mount as well as clear instructions per platform (600XL, 800XL, XEGS, 130XE) and a self contained flasher software (now fjc solved that glaring issue but you still need a Side2 or some other SIO device). Nonetheless it is one piece of upgrade that I really really recommend. Edited March 30, 2015 by phoenixdownita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I am getting a little frustrated with this myself. The barest of bare bones instructions are given on Lotharek's page and - honestly - don't help at all. From a lot of searching I have, I think enough information to put this thing in but I am not confident. One problem is the fact there are multiple revisions of the 800XL motherboard, so I am not sure until I scrutinize the traces if the four CPU points from 'P2' exist on my own unit. Moreover the single best how-to refers explicitly to the 130XE. So again, while general tips and methods are shown they are not specific to the majority of scenarios where the board will be used. Perhaps the worst problem - at least for producing a neat finished item - is the missing 'accessory pack' that Candle references on his site. Old Lotharek doesn't supply this with the "Ultimate1MB", so... Make do and mend? Looking at the pin header for 'P2' I think the plug from an old CD-ROM analogue audio wire will do the job, the cheap kind without the moulded latch. This is just a visual estimation though and I have not tried it yet. My biggest headache are the missing mounting posts. These are an ultimate - ho, ho, ho - pain. I have no idea what to use; maybe saw off a couple of old Biro barrels? I have no complaints with the quality of the actual board and I am very glad we no longer have to go through that nightmarish process of cutting tracks and mutilating the ribbon cable to install in-line resistors. However... The thing ain't cheap, to be blunt and really should have the accessory pack included. I would even have paid an extra fiver or tenner if production cost was behind its omission. Is it possible to still buy one of the old packs from Candle? If so I'll definitely snatch one up. The next thing that is missing and really, really needs to be addressed is how to integrate the "Ultimate1MB" with the "Simple Stereo' mod, the VBXE and the XEGM . I guess these are connected to pin headers 'P4' and 'P3' respectively? I need to know what to solder where and preferably have some connectors for the "Ultimate1MB" side of things. Maybe the XEGM built-in game thing is not applicable to an 800XL? I'm not complaining about the work that has been done on the development side of things, which is frankly outstanding and really does give the best memory upgrade available. However the polish is missing and this is more than a trivial matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Here's a diagram of the P2 connections: http://lotharek.pl/cms/menadzer_plikow/CPU.jpg That's from the bottom of this page: http://lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=67 You can follow traces near the PBI connector if you wish, but the direct CPU connections described above are quite adequate and identical across all XLs and XEs. Note that Lotharek also tells you which way to orient the ribbon cables. I actually agree regarding the mounting pylons, screws, Harting connectors, etc, but it seems to come down to how the vendor prefers to install the component. While Candle provided and used neat, stand-off based mountings and push-fit connectors as described in his installation guide, Lotharek happens to prefer direct solder connections from the CPU to P2 and screwing the board direct to some part of the plastic case. Unfortunate, but this means he will argue that there's actually nothing missing from the kit apart from a single self-tapping screw and some bits of wire. However, it's easy to source the necessary parts on ebay or elsewhere. You need: 2x c. 30mm M3 posidrive screws 2x M3 washers 2x M3 nuts 2x c. 20mm nylon M3 standoffs 1x 4 way Harting connector 4x Harting crimp connectors 4x multicore wire This should come to all of a fiver at most, and you'll probably have parts left over, since it's unusual to buy these components singly or in pairs. As for Simple Stereo integration: this is described in Lotharek's Stereo board installation guide, as is integration with VBXE (in the VBXE installation docs, IIRC). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Many thanks for that list of kit. If I am right about the CD-Audio cable then all I really need are the posts. Do you think it is okay to solder directly to the chip then? I read a post where this was recommended against as it made it harder to replace the processor if necessary and also lead to potential heat damage. I also thought it was a bit odd that all the photos put up on old Lotharek's site did not actually show the 'P2' connections made. I have attached the photo below which applies to my 800XL. Amusingly you'll note that the board has been installed using what were probably the posts from Candle's excellent kit! Is it possible we are talking about different *.PDF files? The one from the 'Simple Stereo' product page makes no mention of how to wire it to the "Ultimate1Mb". It does give very clear instructions for attaching it to the processor, the included throw switch and the L&R banana sockets - but nothing more than this. I would attach the acrobat file but it is too large so I hope Lotharek doesn't mind my linking to it directly: http://lotharek.pl/zasoby/produkty/45/pliki/simple_stereo.pdf Again, I cannot find integration details in the VBXE guide: http://spiflash.org/files/vbxe/release-install.zip Although here I may well have missed it as there are a lot of pictures and *.PDF's in the archive to leaf through. Right now that is not a priority for me though. I am currently quite happy with the monitor output. Generally, in both cases am I right in assuming you use the 'P4' pin headers for all these tasks? Also, how do you go about wiring for the XEGM games - or is that something specifically only for when the 'Ultimate1MB' board is installed in to actual XEGM hardware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Is it possible we are talking about different *.PDF files? The one from the 'Simple Stereo' product page makes no mention of how to wire it to the "Ultimate1Mb". We are: I was thinking of the uSwitch documentation: http://lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=112 You need that device to connect Lotharek's stereo board to Ultimate anyway. It uses the M0 pin: I forget which header row it's on, but it's clearly labelled on the Ultimate board. Again, I cannot find integration details in the VBXE guide: http://spiflash.org/files/vbxe/release-install.zip Look at the bottom of page 7. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozar Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Many thanks for that list of kit. If I am right about the CD-Audio cable then all I really need are the posts. Do you think it is okay to solder directly to the chip then? I read a post where this was recommended against as it made it harder to replace the processor if necessary and also lead to potential heat damage. I also thought it was a bit odd that all the photos put up on old Lotharek's site did not actually show the 'P2' connections made. I have attached the photo below which applies to my 800XL. Amusingly you'll note that the board has been installed using what were probably the posts from Candle's excellent kit! When I installed it in my 1200XL, I followed each CPU pin until I found a pad on the motherboard, and then made my solder connections there. I didn't want to solder directly to the CPU. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 You need that device to connect Lotharek's stereo board to Ultimate anyway. It uses the M0 pin: I forget which header row it's on, but it's clearly labelled on the Ultimate board. I have one of those on order now FJC - many thanks! In regards: However, it's easy to source the necessary parts on ebay or elsewhere. You need: 2x c. 30mm M3 posidrive screws 2x M3 washers 2x M3 nuts 2x c. 20mm nylon M3 standoffs 1x 4 way Harting connector 4x Harting crimp connectors 4x multicore wire This should come to all of a fiver at most, and you'll probably have parts left over, since it's unusual to buy these components singly or in pairs. I can seem to find everything except the flat plug and its internal elements. The only pictures of a '4-way Harting Connector' I can see associated with a catalogue item is a round socket, which is clearly not what is called for: http://uk.farnell.com/harting/21032812405/connector-receptacle-4-way-cable/dp/1161650 I don't suppose any of you chaps have Maplin or RS part numbers for the plastic housing and the metal insides of the plug do you? I suppose when you really think about it, the item is a 'socket' and not 'plug' at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Sorry: I meant DuPont connector, like these: eBay Auction -- Item Number: 200995197390 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Sorry: I meant DuPont connector, like these: Ahh... Excellent!!! Many thanks for clearing that up FJC. Now those are on the way as well! I wonder if it would be a good idea to order a 2-element and also a 5-element connector for the other pin headers on the board? While I am at that store you pointed me to, do you think this wire would do the job? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ribbon-Cable-2A-3D-Printer-Stepper-Motors-End-Stop-Switch-Wire-24AWG-/200988629496?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2ecbdb19f8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) I bought a s**t load of 5-way Dupont housings from HK a few years back and I just cut them down to the required width with a craft knife. VBXE and uSwitch hook up to the 5-way header. I forget what the two pin header is for. That wire will be fine, although I generally use something a little thicker for the four hookups, along these lines: eBay Auction -- Item Number: 151473893262 Note that's just the first illustrative example I found. Edited May 15, 2015 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I will take your advice then FJC - 20 of the 5-way connectors and then trim them to 4-way or 2-way as required. That seems to suit all eventualities. I forget what the two pin header is for. I think the 2 pin header is for the XEGM game connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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