Working Atari 1040STF/SC1224 Suddenly Lost Picture

[grizzlyaddams]

I bought a used Atari 1040STF/SC1224 with mouse, cords, disks, etc about 3 weeks ago. It worked great. I have been using it daily since. Suddenly today in the middle of trying different software, I'm not getting any picture or sound. The computer powers on and reads from floppy, sometimes the floppy light stays on after it stops reading. I don't know the software well enough to tell if it's actually booting a particular game.

 

Since the 1040STF will only hook up to an Atari monitor, and I only have one monitor/computer, how can I test which has failed?

 

Edit: I am almost positive the computer is booting games. When the drive stops I can press the space bar, it continues to load, I can eventually press joystick input, and it'll load again. I am more than willing to buy another monitor but how can I be positive there's nothing wrong with the output on the computer side?

Edited April 13, 2015 by grizzlyaddams

[RodLightning]

If you have a boot floppy with desk accessories, you might try powering the ST on with that disk inserted and listen for the tell tale sounds of stepper motor activity (buzz/click etc). We can associate these "happy noises" to a properly loading/accessing disk drive. The startup files take a minute to load and there is much drive access.

[grizzlyaddams]

If you have a boot floppy with desk accessories, you might try powering the ST on with that disk inserted and listen for the tell tale sounds of stepper motor activity (buzz/click etc). We can associate these "happy noises" to a properly loading/accessing disk drive. The startup files take a minute to load and there is much drive access.

After trying more disks I am positive the Atari is booting fine. but what is the likely hood that the Atari would still load software but not output a signal, like a bad video chip or something, as opposed to the monitor dying?

As I said I will order a new monitor right now if I could just be 100% sure!

Edited April 13, 2015 by grizzlyaddams

[galax]

My guess would be the monitor. Does it's power LED light up? Some tips on testing the monitor's PSU etc. Of course be very careful inside a monitor, even if you know what you are doing. Some tips: http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=18975

 

It's difficult to know without being able to A/B test against other hardware. First thing I would do is see if the monitor port is outputting anything- either with a scope or multimeter. Use a pinout to see which pins should have AC voltages on etc.

 

You could take the ST's audio output and run it into some PC speakers or something to see if the audio is correct. You could also put an audio signal into the monitor to see if it amplifies it.

 

You could make up or buy a cable, and try the ST in Low or high resolution with other monitors. A few monitors that do and don't work with the ST: http://www.atari-wiki.com/index.php/Flat_Panel_Displays

 

A few other computers you can test with the SC1224 (might involve making some cables) http://atariage.com/forums/topic/176261-is-the-atari-sc1224-monitor-compatible-with-any-other-computer/

Edited April 13, 2015 by galax

[grizzlyaddams]

My guess would be the monitor. Does it's power LED light up? Some tips on testing the monitor's PSU etc. Of course be very careful inside a monitor, even if you know what you are doing. Some tips: http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=18975

 

It's difficult to know without being able to A/B test against other hardware. First thing I would do is see if the monitor port is outputting anything- either with a scope or multimeter. Use a pinout to see which pins should have AC voltages on etc.

 

You could take the ST's audio output and run it into some PC speakers or something to see if the audio is correct. You could also put an audio signal into the monitor to see if it amplifies it.

 

You could make up or buy a cable, and try the ST in Low or high resolution with other monitors. A few monitors that do and don't work with the ST: http://www.atari-wiki.com/index.php/Flat_Panel_Displays

 

A few other computers you can test with the SC1224 (might involve making some cables) http://atariage.com/forums/topic/176261-is-the-atari-sc1224-monitor-compatible-with-any-other-computer/

 

Monitor Power LED does light up. It does make a familiar whining sound as it powers on. The only real immediate troubleshooting I'll be able to do is with visual inspection and a multimeter.

[RodLightning]

One thing you might try, on the cheap:

 

It's possible to run two audio jumper wires directly into the ST monitor port to test sound output.

 

Pin 1 is audio out (it's line level like a stereo input uses, just single channel)

 

Pin 13 is ground.

 

I used to do this sometimes with my STFM which also had a composite video out. You would have to leave the monitor cable unplugged of course and build a two pin patch cable..bare wires on one end and RCA jack on the other.

 

You can run that audio into computer speakers or some such and listen for output from a game.

 

 

[grizzlyaddams]

One thing you might try, on the cheap:

 

It's possible to run two audio jumper wires directly into the ST monitor port to test sound output.

 

Pin 1 is audio out (it's line level like a stereo input uses, just single channel)

 

Pin 13 is ground.

 

I used to do this sometimes with my STFM which also had a composite video out. You would have to leave the monitor cable unplugged of course and build a two pin patch cable..bare wires on one end and RCA jack on the other.

 

You can run that audio into computer speakers or some such and listen for output from a game.

 

 

 

I tried this and did not get audio like I expected.

 

Also it does not seem to be loading most disks. It reads for a second then stops. Looking closely I can see the floppy drive light flashing dimly and rapidly.

[RodLightning]

 

I tried this and did not get audio like I expected.

 

Also it does not seem to be loading most disks. It reads for a second then stops. Looking closely I can see the floppy drive light flashing dimly and rapidly.

 

Next step should be opening up the case and checking dc voltage output coming out of the power supply.

 

FYI, the floppy light on mine also has a faint winking pulse when idle. I think that much is normal.

Edited April 14, 2015 by RodLightning

[grizzlyaddams]

 

Next step should be opening up the case and checking dc voltage output coming out of the power supply.

 

FYI, the floppy light on mine also has a faint winking pulse when idle. I think that much is normal.

 

Uhm...

 

5v line read 6.30v and slowly rising a .01 at a time.

12v line read 15.30v and slowly rising .01 at a time.

 

Edit: I think my multimeter is bad. After getting those readings I checked brand new AA battery and it read 2.27v and slowly rising by .01.

 

But if I turn the computer on without a disk in it, the floppy light stays on bright and solid after it's done trying to read the empty drive.

Edited April 14, 2015 by grizzlyaddams

[grizzlyaddams]

Ok scratch that. I was able to connect the audio out to a generic speaker and I get key click sound when I press keys immediately after powering on the system and thereafter. I was also able to boot two separate games and get game audio.

 

So can I assume the computer is fine and there is nothing funny going on with the graphics output? Is there a final way to ensure this?

 

Maybe the monitor doesn't play the audio because it's not receiving a video signal? I just can't be sure.

[RodLightning]

Key clicks and especially game sound is a good sign that cpu, memory, and critical chips are working. Make sure you can get the disk load and audio test to work consistently to rule out any failing components on the system board or power supply.

 

There really is no way to be 100% sure without spare equipment to swap in/out.

 

If you can solder, or know someone who does, color and monochrome adapter cables can be built fairly cheaply to use a more commonly available VGA or multisync PC monitor. It's just a matter of finding a display that will sync low enough to do ST resolutions. Many don't, some do.

 

Check out the links Galax posted earlier in the thread if you decide to go that route.

[RodLightning]

Ok scratch that. I was able to connect the audio out to a generic speaker and I get key click sound when I press keys immediately after powering on the system and thereafter. I was also able to boot two separate games and get game audio.

 

So can I assume the computer is fine and there is nothing funny going on with the graphics output? Is there a final way to ensure this?

 

Maybe the monitor doesn't play the audio because it's not receiving a video signal? I just can't be sure.

Just another thought, the Atari monitor would behave that way if the ground pin was disconnected.

 

It's probably worth checking all wires in the cable for continuity before spending any money.

[grizzlyaddams]

I have the Goldstar model SC1224 so the monitor cable is not detachable, making continuity check kind of difficult. But the ground pin on the monitor plug has continuity to the chassis ground.

[galax]

The monitor should be playing the ST's audio, it sounds like something has gone in the monitor. The guy in the atari-forum post I linked to said his monitor LED came on but he had no audio or video. He had bad capacitors in the monitor PSU (possibly among other problems)

[grizzlyaddams]

Yeah I've decided to grab a replacement monitor. I enjoy having the matching monitor and computer models, especially the way I have them displayed and set up for use. Best Electronics has factory reconditioned ones for only $99. I've been asking for a shipping quote since Monday, and instead they tried to sell me a different video solution. I declined and they have not replied since. It is sort of stressing me out.

Edited April 16, 2015 by grizzlyaddams

[galax]

That's a pretty good price, their website isn't always up to date though, so It's possible that they don't have them in stock.

 

You could also put a 'wanted' ad on here.

 

Have you thought of taking a look inside the monitor, or getting a friend to? It might be as simple as a PSU caps that have gone.

[grizzlyaddams]

Yeah I actually talked to the guy. He said he had a 10 ft stack of them and that he hadn't sold one in over 5 years. He kept trying to push a multi-sync cable on me instead, and said I'd have to go to another dealer to get a vga scaler box to use it. Total price would've been as much or more than the monitor (plus I'd still need a dedicated monitor), and as stated, I want a working Atari monitor in my display anyway.

 

The guy had fulfilled an order for me just a few days ago with a 1 day turn-around. Suddenly now he says almost a week to get a total price, even though I'd asked for the quote days prior. I've also asked him about a reconditioned ST and a new Jaguar, and he hasn't bothered to reply to anything. I was a little pushy that a week was a bit long, but I wasn't rude and I didn't curse or insult. It's a shame because I would drop half a grand on hardware right now if he would just get back to me. Very foolish to ignore a paying customer. He also sold me a CX-78 which he claimed was new. It might have been new but they reconditioned it anyway after being in storage so long, which is understandable and even thoughtful. But I had to find this out because there was a screw missing. I don't have any spare parts lying around so I asked him to send me the missing screw in a regular small envelope. Again ignored.

 

I was thinking about putting up a wanted ad, but the monitor I received worked awesome at first and only took less than 3 weeks of regular use to buck the kicket, so I'm kind of skeptical.

 

I did take a look inside the monitor, but the metal chassis is built up all the way around 3 sides. It's hard to see and I didn't notice any blown or swollen caps.

Edited April 17, 2015 by grizzlyaddams

[Fletch]

You can try to contact AtariAge user KJMANN about his ST to Component Adapter. I recently purchased a preproduction unit from him and it works like a champ.

 

Essentially lets you hook your ST, STe, TT, or Falcon to a modern LCD TV that has component inputs.

 

He will being selling the units through Video 61 Atari Sales when the production units are ready, but he had indicated to me that he had a few more units available when I purchased mine directly.

 

I don't feel comfortable discussing cost as I don't know what he and Video 61 are planning.

 

-Pete

[grizzlyaddams]

Thanks for the heads up. I'm really trying to get another Atari monitor though. It's for a sort of vintage collection. I have an Atari from each era, (7800, 800XL, 1040ST, Lynx, need to get a Jaguar) all set up on their own little computer carts with their own matching display from the same time. I've invested hundreds into software and accessories.

 

I took the PSU out of the monitor. There is a bit of corrosion here and there but I only have a cheap digital multimeter so I am unable to do reliable testing of the caps. Non of the electrolytic caps seem to be leaking. I decided to test a few of the mylar caps, and even though I was told they don't fail very often, I thought I stumbled on a bad one. I ran to the (only) local radio supply store. A real run down joint that's been around for decades. They did not have what I needed.

Edited April 17, 2015 by grizzlyaddams

[grizzlyaddams]

Wow I gave Brad a call back and he completely blew me off... Told me he might be able to help me with the monitor but if I wanted any other order I'd have to wait a few weeks before I was allowed to place one. He said if someone sends more than one shipping quote request they basically ask "What's going on here" and put it at the bottom of the stack, despite saying on Tuesday that everything was first come, first serve?

 

I don't get this. These are all large pieces of hardware I hadn't decided I wanted, or even discovered at the same time. Not to mention they would all have to ship separately as it is.

 

I asked him why he was so reluctant to help me out and he said he was sure I could find it somewhere else on the internet, and hung up. I have anxiety problems and this guy is really stressing me out. He is not customer friendly at all.

Edited April 17, 2015 by grizzlyaddams

[RodLightning]

Best has the good stuff for sure, but there can sometimes be a tap dance involved in placing orders. As has been said before in other threads, Brad is picky about doing shipping quotes.

Pure speculation here, but he probably dislikes packing heavy and/or complicated orders where he isn't sure the sale will go through.

 

It's basically a one man operation with a very eccentric proprietor.

[galax]

I was a little pushy that a week was a bit long, but I wasn't rude and I didn't curse or insult. It's a shame because I would drop half a grand on hardware right now if he would just get back to me. Very foolish to ignore a paying customer.

 

If he sensed that attitude, you were done for right there. He's not foolish and he doesn't need your business. I've had no problems with Brad over several orders, but from what I've heard if he doesn't like something about your manner he just doesn't consider it worth his time to deal with you. Give him a few weeks and ask again politely, and don't ever tell him how long it should take- who knows where these things are stacked in the labyrinth of palettes they have.

I was thinking about putting up a wanted ad, but the monitor I received worked awesome at first and only took less than 3 weeks of regular use to buck the kicket, so I'm kind of skeptical.

I'm really trying to get another Atari monitor though. It's for a sort of vintage collection.

 

These are 25-30 year old CRT monitors, even new old stock could fail on you. You'll need to either get good at repairing them, or get used to buying them.

[grizzlyaddams]

 

If he sensed that attitude, you were done for right there. He's not foolish and he doesn't need your business. I've had no problems with Brad over several orders, but from what I've heard if he doesn't like something about your manner he just doesn't consider it worth his time to deal with you. Give him a few weeks and ask again politely, and don't ever tell him how long it should take- who knows where these things are stacked in the labyrinth of palettes they have.

 

These are 25-30 year old CRT monitors, even new old stock could fail on you. You'll need to either get good at repairing them, or get used to buying them.

 

Best has the good stuff for sure, but there can sometimes be a tap dance involved in placing orders. As has been said before in other threads, Brad is picky about doing shipping quotes.

Pure speculation here, but he probably dislikes packing heavy and/or complicated orders where he isn't sure the sale will go through.

 

It's basically a one man operation with a very eccentric proprietor.

 

I don't want to give the wrong impression. I generally don't, and haven't had to have that attitude. I'm always polite especially in business, even when I must disagree. I was in sales and service for over 10 years. I've dealt with over a hundred different vendors for vintage collectibles in the past year alone, which can involve tricky expectations, but have always had stellar transactions and make immediate payment. When I'm ready to buy, I buy. And I buy a lot. I don't honk around and I ain't no tire-kicker. Even when there are inevitable issues I just let the seller decide how to take care of it and I never leave negative feedback. Depending on the outcome maybe just don't use that seller anymore.

 

Before there was any misunderstanding I could tell they did not prefer to sell me the monitor. It was pretty clear my request was a hassle. They are obviously having great success and that's awesome. I just wish I had known before how unapologetic he was, as it caught me quite a bit off guard. I even apologized profusely and let them know I respected their time and support, but I don't think it'll matter. I gave up and took his advice and bought the monitor from someone else. It's a shame really (for me) because their inventory is great and I could easily spend hundreds or thousands! But I don't renege on my word. If for some reason they decided to give me the quote I would still buy the monitor without hesitation as I don't intend to waste anyone's time. Outside of that, I don't think I'd feel comfortable making an inquiry with them again.

 

I know I'm probably alone in wanting to game on a tiny vintage monitor, and it will probably be more of a hassle going forward. But the original monitor I got did have quite a bit of corrosion on the PCBs and other signs of poor storage conditions. Hopefully the next one will have been a bit dryer and I would be thrilled to even get a couple years use out of one. If I got a multi-sync cable and VGA converter that would be more of a backup video solution.

 

Now I'm just waiting to get the replacement monitor and find out that wasn't the problem. It's the kind of luck I'm having lately.

 

Thank you folks for all your help and feedback! If it works out I'll probably be buying a 3rd monitor soon for parts/backup, and a backup ST computer as well. If anyone is selling, let me know!

[RodLightning]

I presently only have one upgraded 520stfm and Goldstar type sc1224, my original ST from 1990s and the monitor acquired years later.

I used a composite Hitachi/Amdek for years with it before finding the Atari monitor around 2001 in a thrift.

 

This thread has started me thinking about the prospect of CRT maintenance and repair. I have taken iron and meter to most all hardware over the years with the exception of CRT monitors.

Those things have always scared me away due to the high voltage discharge required to troubleshoot. With all cathode monitors moving into realms of antiquity, it's a skill worthy of pursuit.

 

I have a Mac Classic stored away that was developing power issues to the CRT. I set it aside a good while ago for reasons stated above.

 

If my Atari monitor ever starts showing signs of failure, I might be tempted to do whatever is required to fix it. I'm wondering if any TV repair shops still exist with capability to do CRT repairs? There used to be a couple around town up until a few years ago it seems.

 

 

Grizz, good luck getting your vintage STF system back in working order!

[venom4728a]

I have a few Atari Monitors, I think I have 2 of the color and one monochrome. Where are you located? I am in Michigan.

Robert.