peteym5 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Did anyone ever disassemble Turbo Basic XL, hacked or improved upon it since its original release? Does anyone have the original source code? Even if the comments are in German, we can probably translate it to English with Google or Bing translator. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I have been looking for it for years, as have a few others. From what I have learned, Frank Ostrowski never commented his code much, and he seems to be quite reclusive. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hello Peter ... we can probably translate it to English with Google or Bing translator. I was under the impression that people want to know what was really written. But seriously, most comments are made up of short sentences. Determining what the author really meant to say is therefor hard enough without Google or Bing interfering. It shouldn't be to hard to find somebody who speaks English, German and assembler. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Actually I cannot find my copy of Linker that mergers a CTB to Runtime to make an executable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Look here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/205312-turbo-basic-programming-for-compiler/?do=findComment&comment=3202249 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 I found it on one of the original Turbobasic disk images. I also disassembled the Turbo Basic Executable to look at where it is loading into memory and under the OS. It may be possible to hack and modify it. Personally I would not worry about making it work with SpartaDOS because there are versions that someone did hack, but that only left you only about 20K for your programs. Both SpartaDOS and TurboBasic load in the RAM under the OS. Another option I am surprised no one considered is to load TurboBasic into one of the banks of a 130XE. Hacks I am thinking about is start optimizing the program down further. Its probably already very compact, but like Phaeron did with Atari Basic, he did find some things. I would target the section that loads into main ram and reduce it. leaving more memory available for your programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 TB already provides a very generous amount of free RAM, and it'll be a difficult prospect to modify it in useful ways without source code. If you can understand a disassembled interpreter, it might be easier to sit down and write a new version of TB from the ground up, as Phaeron did with AltBASIC (which is not a hacked or altered version of Atari BASIC, but a complete reimplementation of it). As for loading code into extended RAM: the reason it probably hasn't been done is that you end up with contention between code and data (i.e. your BASIC program) occupying the same address space, making direct access to data slow and difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Using an XE bank is a good idea, if the above problem Jon just mentioned can be dealt with. It also needs to respect SDX bank usage. I would also love to see a version (at least of the Runtime) that is optimized for speed using 816 code. Sparta 3.x compatibility is no big deal to me, but, if the under the OS code is moved to an XE bank, SD3.x may be possible. Edited May 5, 2015 by Kyle22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Remember that if you're using SDX, the Shadow RAM contention issue becomes irrelevant anyway since Turbo BASIC XL runs just fine with SDX as it is. Edited May 5, 2015 by flashjazzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Remember that if you're using SDX, the Shadow RAM contention issue becomes irrelevant anyway since Turbo BASIC XL runs just fine with SDX as it is. Yes, that's my BASIC programming platform of choice. More free RAM, and taking advantage of (at least) the 816 block copy instructions would be nice, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Could also do it in the style of OSS Basic XE with EXTEND. Keep all the variables, interpreter, etc. in low memory, and put the basic program source in extended memory. Maybe keep everything except the source outside of $4000 to $7FFF, ending up with 64K for the program on the 130XE. Could also have it detect extended memory available (256K, 320K, 576K machines) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 If the objective were to have more program space, then yes: it would probably make more sense to put the BASIC program data rather than the interpreter itself into extended RAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 FWIW, Andreas had an ATR of several variants of TBXL. Nothing major, but worth looking at. I'll look through my stuff and see if I can find it. If not, you might PM "CharlieChaplin" and ask him. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grevle Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 When programming Basic or TurboBasicXL on the Atari i often use the built in short names like gr. instead of graphics and so on. As we know when we list the program the full name appears in the listing,Like Graphics and color and Setcolor and so on. Doesn't these long Names gobble up the memory ? i mean i nice hack would be that the listing would be just like you write it with the short names and thus saving a lot of memory ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 The keywords are held as short tokens in memory, and simply expanded when you list the program. So no RAM is wasted by displaying the full name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grevle Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Nice did't know that. But still a bit annoying when the tokens expand because of the 3 line limit, when using short names to cramp as much as possible into 3 lines and one want to edit the same line after listing, One have to do a lot of extra editing. i still think the TurboBasic XL could benefit with listing short names. Maybe we could have a short names version of Turbobasic XL for people who prefer that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I remember being at school and marvelling at BBC BASIC listings containing dense tracts of deliberately abbreviated and space-less code... not something I miss. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Nice did't know that. But still a bit annoying when the tokens expand because of the 3 line limit, when using short names to cramp as much as possible into 3 lines and one want to edit the same line after listing, One have to do a lot of extra editing. i still think the TurboBasic XL could benefit with listing short names. Maybe we could have a short names version of Turbobasic XL for people who prefer that. If a complete re-write can be done, possibly *K and *K+ for normal or abbreviated Keywords? Just an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 OK, I've looked through my stuff in the usual places and come up empty -- sorry! Another TBXL variant is Drac030's MultiBasic for the 65816. You must have a 65816 CPU and 65816 OS (which he also has put together). Don't have a 65816? Well, they are coming, and Drac030 may even find time to enhance his Basic (which is very similar to regular TBXL). But it also contains some interesting extensions. You can find out more about it (and other neat stuff he has written): http://drac030.krap.pl/en-main.php -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Someone could get around the 3 line limit, but I think the problem is coming from the Atari OS and not from Basic when you press enter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Well, there's the goto guy for TBXL source code: Konrad already performed the feat of reverse-engineering it from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Anyway of getting one of these guys sources they disassembled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Well, there's the goto guy for TBXL source code: Konrad already performed the feat of reverse-engineering it from scratch. You mean the G. guy On a serious note, I sure hope he: 1> makes a compiler and linker available for it, 2> allows the option of using XE RAM or 816 Linear RAM, so as not to lock out us 65c802 guys, and those with 65c816 and no high RAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Konrad is very approachable, although I doubt he has much spare time. If serious about development, it would do no harm to drop him a line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Okay then, TB XL was released in (german) Happy Computer magazine and later also in Happy Computer Special magazine (Atari XL/XE Sondermagazin 1). They used a special tool named "Ampel" to type in the ML data, think the tool worked similar to Compute`s MLX. You can find a PC program that works like Ampel does and even the TB XL, Runtime and Compiler listing in Ampel format here: http://www.atarionline.pl/v01/index.php?ct=utils&sub=Z.%20Inne%20platformy&tg=PC#PC Simply scroll down to Atari Ampel Decoder 0.09.7z and download this program. The most common version of TB XL is the original one, TB XL 1.5. The original short docs used german language and (the displayed text in) the compiler also used german language, but Ron Fetzer and others made great english translations... TB_XL_plus_docs.zip But there also exist: - versions for the Atari 400/800 (given the names Frost Basic, TB XL 400 or TB XL 800 and other names; TB is appended to DOS 2, so that DOS.SYS has a length of 180 sectors), TB_400_800.zip - a version for Sparta DOS 3.2d (named TB 3.2q), Turbo_32q.zip - one or more versions for a turbo-tape (TB XL V2.0 and/or V2.1), TB_XL_20.zip TB_XL_21.zip - a special loader from Happy Computer special magazine to load TB XL from a standard tape drive, (I do not think anyone will use this today, but if interested, let me know.) - some TB XL enhancements TB_XL_ext.zip - some "simple" patch programs, e.g. a program to alter the colour of TB XL while loading; a program to edit the title and/or logo of TB XL, various patch-programs to make TB XL work better with certain mouse-drivers (Multi Mouse Management by Simon Trew), floppy-speeders (turbo 1050 floppy drive), etc. - I did not keep the colour or title/logo changers... Edited May 5, 2015 by CharlieChaplin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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