Dark Chambers to Gauntlet Conversion

[davidbrit2]

There's no room left for another enemy (I already had to drop a few), let alone one that behaves as differently as the NES dragon does. I do have one item space left (teleporter? new potion? amulet?) but not much room to really do anything fun with it. Right now I'm leaning toward just doing what the arcade does...reusing room patterns infinitely. I can't flip them around or anything like Ed Logg did, but the colors can be changed for at least some variety. And then I guess the level counter would go up to 99 then reset back to 00.

 

Good point about the decreasing HP helping speed up the pace. Hmm. The health counter only goes up to a max of 31 in this game, so while I could tick that down gradually, it would have to be pretty slowly.

The first Gauntlet doesn't mirror the level layouts randomly, that was new in Gauntlet II, so you haven't lost any features there.

 

What's the starting health value currently? I'd think something like one every 60 seconds is probably reasonable. Are there an extra couple of bytes for a frame counter, though?

[CDS Games]

The first Gauntlet doesn't mirror the level layouts randomly, that was new in Gauntlet II, so you haven't lost any features there.

What's the starting health value currently? I'd think something like one every 60 seconds is probably reasonable. Are there an extra couple of bytes for a frame counter, though?

 

Excellent, that makes things easier then.

 

Starting health value was uniformly 18 (in decimal) but now it varies per character: Warrior (22), Valkyrie (20), Wizard (16), Elf (18).

 

Let's see....the arcade gives you 600 points and ticks you down 1 point per second. So every 60 seconds you are down 10%. Assuming a starting health value of 18 that puts us pretty much where you predicted at -1 or -2 a minute.

 

There's already a frame counter at C7 luckily.

[davidbrit2]

Excellent, that makes things easier then.

 

Starting health value was uniformly 18 (in decimal) but now it varies per character: Warrior (22), Valkyrie (20), Wizard (16), Elf (18).

 

Let's see....the arcade gives you 600 points and ticks you down 1 point per second. So every 60 seconds you are down 10%. Assuming a starting health value of 18 that puts us pretty much where you predicted at -1 or -2 a minute.

 

There's already a frame counter at C7 luckily.

Nice. If you can find another 6 bits to store seconds, you're pretty much there already. I don't imagine it will take more than a few bytes of ROM to test the seconds counter, reset it, and subtract one from both health counters.

[Rodrigo]

What you mean when you say that you can't do anything fun with the item that is left? A teleporter would be cool, if it ads strategy to the game. You should give a try to the decreasing hp, I loved when I already exhausted the resources of a level, was low in hp and had to go to the next one and frantically run to find food even without knowing what was ahead.

[CDS Games]

Basically though I have an item space free (i.e. the sprite and an assigned hex # to place it in a level), I don't have much room to add new code. It'd be real easy for me to add a second food sprite, which just accesses the existing food routine.

 

I've wanted to do the teleporter for a while. Couple issues though, assuming I can even find the space to add. First, you need at least two per level, leaving you room for only 2 more items in that level. Second, I'm not sure how to go about it.

[Rodrigo]

Well, the other food sprite could be an eye candy. The teleporter sounds too complicated to work, as you describe. About the decreasing HP , would be possible to add a warning sound or other thing when it's about to end? I was playing today, real hardware, and noticed two apparent bugs, one, enemies died near the screen limit, the other a ghost generator sprite corrupted when I killed a ghost that had just been generated (altough I was still able to destroy the generator). But the game is very good, it has the Gauntlet feeling despite the obvious 2600 limitations. Keep the good job!

[CDS Games]

About the decreasing HP , would be possible to add a warning sound or other thing when it's about to end? I was playing today, real hardware, and noticed two apparent bugs, one, enemies died near the screen limit, the other a ghost generator sprite corrupted when I killed a ghost that had just been generated (altough I was still able to destroy the generator).

 

Good idea. I'm not sure, I'll have to see where there's room.

 

I can look into the enemies dying near the screen limit--this is the second time it's been mentioned. The 2600 can only keep track of a limited number of moving enemies, so having some die is the quickest way to reallocate the RAM. But I notice that not all of them die off screen, so I'll look into it.

 

There's a corruption bug that happens sometimes when you shoot Death and a generator turns into the first explosion sprite (but just stays there). I wonder if it's related to what you saw.

[CDS Games]

Speaking of Gauntlet feel, try this new version:

 

gauntlet1004.bin

 

I made the enemies more aggressive as you suggested earlier in the thread. Seems like an immense improvement overall--the enemies generally beeline right to you like the arcade.

 

The game's much tougher now, so I maxed out all the characters' starting health to compensate. After a few rounds playing various characters my high was only 16k.

 

Also, the level counter now goes up to 199.

[Rodrigo]

 

I can look into the enemies dying near the screen limit--this is the second time it's been mentioned. The 2600 can only keep track of a limited number of moving enemies, so having some die is the quickest way to reallocate the RAM. But I notice that not all of them die off screen, so I'll look into it.

 

There's a corruption bug that happens sometimes when you shoot Death and a generator turns into the first explosion sprite (but just stays there). I wonder if it's related to what you saw.

 

Oh, so these deaths are part of the program. They are not that bad, just noticed and tought that could be a bug. The generator corruption that I saw matches exactly your description, but was a ghost (now that you said Death, I'm not so sure it was a ghost).

 

 

Speaking of Gauntlet feel, try this new version:

 

gauntlet1004.bin

 

I made the enemies more aggressive as you suggested earlier in the thread. Seems like an immense improvement overall--the enemies generally beeline right to you like the arcade.

 

The game's much tougher now, so I maxed out all the characters' starting health to compensate. After a few rounds playing various characters my high was only 16k.

 

Also, the level counter now goes up to 199.

 

Wow! Now we have a challenge, Gauntlet style! Played a little on Stella and noticed a big difference. You feel that you have to move and fight with care or you die quickly. The enemies behaves a lot more like the NES versions (unfortunately, I never played the arcade version, just saw videos of it).

 

You will have to think with care about the difficulty balance in case the decreasing HP becomes real.

 

The level counter going to 199 implies that you added the other levels, with some randomization?

 

Another thing, on narrow corridors or passages there is some difficulty moving left and right, you have to be very precise.

 

I think it's just improving :thumbsup: .

[Rodrigo]

Ops, I think I found a problem (could'nt resist play a little more...). Tried the two player game, just to see how it is, and in the first level the ghost generator on the left bottom of the screen was indestructible. One player OK, two player indestructible.

[Rodrigo]

Nevermind, just tried it on real hardware and couldn't make it happen again. Maybe I should update my Stella...

[Rodrigo]

Oops, double post...

Edited October 6, 2015 by Rodrigo

[CRV]

Another thing, on narrow corridors or passages there is some difficulty moving left and right, you have to be very precise.

 

To build on this, these spaces at the top look big enough to go through, but you can only "wiggle" through them.

 

 

Impressive game, BTW.

Edited October 6, 2015 by CRV

[Rodrigo]

Yesterday I did a "long play" on real hardware, for testing purposes. My level/score was: Elf, 10/10060, Wizard 12/12010, Barbarian 23/22230 and Amazon 37/38210! The Amazon is a bit overpowered. After I found the shot potion, things got really easier, I just died because I was tired and started to make mistakes (maybe it would also happen with the barbarian, with the armor potion?). With Elf and Wizard I couldn't go further because they have to rely a lot on potions. The thing is, in battle, i found that the system to tap the fire button twice is quite unreliable, leaving them doomed many times. And the potion doesn't kill the generators. This, with less powerful shots makes them underpowered (but, if I remember correctly, in the arcade the Wizard shot is more powerful than the Amazon, is that right?).

[CDS Games]

Ops, I think I found a problem (could'nt resist play a little more...). Tried the two player game, just to see how it is, and in the first level the ghost generator on the left bottom of the screen was indestructible. One player OK, two player indestructible.

 

Yeah, that's been a headache for a while. The program checks each shot that hits a generator against a random number and decides from that whether it gets destroyed or not. It's a cheap way to implement multiple hit points without keeping track. I tried fiddling with it but the problem still remains. So basically you can play one game and have to shoot the thing a dozen times, and the next game it can be destroyed on the first shot. I don't think any are technically indestructible, so if it happens again, change positions, try another angle, etc. and it should eventually be destroyed.

 

The easy fix is to just have them all go down on the first shot, which I may end up having to do.

[CDS Games]

 

To build on this, these spaces at the top look big enough to go through, but you can only "wiggle" through them.

 

I might not be able to fix that, but I'll give it a shot.

[CDS Games]

Yesterday I did a "long play" on real hardware, for testing purposes. My level/score was: Elf, 10/10060, Wizard 12/12010, Barbarian 23/22230 and Amazon 37/38210! The Amazon is a bit overpowered. After I found the shot potion, things got really easier, I just died because I was tired and started to make mistakes (maybe it would also happen with the barbarian, with the armor potion?). With Elf and Wizard I couldn't go further because they have to rely a lot on potions. The thing is, in battle, i found that the system to tap the fire button twice is quite unreliable, leaving them doomed many times. And the potion doesn't kill the generators. This, with less powerful shots makes them underpowered (but, if I remember correctly, in the arcade the Wizard shot is more powerful than the Amazon, is that right?).

 

Excellent, thanks for the detailed report! I had the same experience...the Valkyrie is the easiest to play.

 

Absolutely agree on the double fire button to activate potions. I cannot make that thing work when I need it, and it goes off when I don't need it. Exasperating. I'm up for ideas if anyone has them.

 

Potions used to take out generators, but I changed that because it had gotten too easy. With this new harder version I'll try putting it back and that should also give the wizard and elf more of an advantage.

 

Here are the full arcade stats: http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Gauntlet/Statistics

 

But this engine only allows for two states: upgraded or not. I can't fine-tune very much. What I can do though is increase the speed of the fast shot potion. That'll give the elf more of an advantage.

[Rodrigo]

 

Absolutely agree on the double fire button to activate potions. I cannot make that thing work when I need it, and it goes off when I don't need it. Exasperating. I'm up for ideas if anyone has them.

 

I don’t know if you can change the controls, but maybe using the fire button and the stick to activate them. For example, hold the button and tap the stick twice left to activate the potions. Would be something difficult to do accidentally and maybe less untrustworthy.

 

 

Potions used to take out generators, but I changed that because it had gotten too easy. With this new harder version I'll try putting it back and that should also give the wizard and elf more of an advantage.

 

Isn’t possible to identify who is using the potion and grant to destroy the generators only to elf and wizard?

 

 

Here are the full arcade stats: http://strategywiki....tlet/Statistics

 

So, at the end, Valkyrie and Wizard have the same shot power.

 

 

But this engine only allows for two states: upgraded or not. I can't fine-tune very much. What I can do though is increase the speed of the fast shot potion. That'll give the elf more of an advantage.

 

Only testing to see how this will affect the balance. Very good, more playing!

Edited October 6, 2015 by Rodrigo

[CDS Games]

Here's a new version to address the balance issue.

 

gauntlet1007.bin

The elf now has a much faster shot speed, giving him more of an advantage in the earlier rounds. He seems particularly effective at long-range fighting. You can fire away in wide open spaces without the enemies closing in and without being too concerned about errant shots. High so far: 28k.

The wizard can now take out visible generators with potions, while everyone else is only able to take out monsters. This seems to work great. If he's too powerful we can tune him down a notch by starting him with less potions (maybe 8?). I tried giving him none like the arcade, but that pretty much negates his special ability. High so far: 33k.

Edited October 7, 2015 by CDS Games

[CDS Games]

Turns out the new shot speed upgrade allows you to fire right through diagonal walls if you position yourself correctly. So there's another special ability in the elf's arsenal that mimics the arcade.

 

Accidental implementation...how about that.

[CDS Games]

The level counter going to 199 implies that you added the other levels, with some randomization?

 

I meant to answer this.

 

No, there are only 80 unique levels. Level 81 is really just level 8 with a different color scheme (and actually glitchy at the moment). But the counter will keep going up to 199.

 

If anybody plays that far, hats off to you.

[Rodrigo]

Here's a new version to address the balance issue.

 

gauntlet1007.bin

 

Later I'll try it. I found the game very addictive, I don't know if this is because I'm (I think you already noticed) a Gauntlet fan.

 

 

Turns out the new shot speed upgrade allows you to fire right through diagonal walls if you position yourself correctly. So there's another special ability in the elf's arsenal that mimics the arcade.

 

Accidental implementation...how about that.

 

Excellent! This will certainly help on those levels with diagonal corridors, and accentuate the differences between the characters.

 

 

 

I meant to answer this.

 

No, there are only 80 unique levels. Level 81 is really just level 8 with a different color scheme (and actually glitchy at the moment). But the counter will keep going up to 199.

 

If anybody plays that far, hats off to you.

 

Oh, understood. I believe in this harder version will be really an amazing feat to reach that far. Yet, I'm thinking if this new difficulty won't make impossible to implement the decreasing Hp...

Edited October 8, 2015 by Rodrigo

[Rodrigo]

Just finished playing. Elf 24, Wizard 22. Elf died because started almost the same position as Death, I think I could reach two or three levels more. The Wizard, I'll have to admit I can't use the potions in an effective way. Too much failures, others wasted. The Elf now is much better, and I used the diagonal shooting to kill enemies without risk, I liked the changes.

[AW127]

Cool thing. I played Gauntlet alot on my C64 back in the days, so i like this project. Hope that there will come a PAL60 version too, when it is finished.

[CDS Games]

Just finished playing. Elf 24, Wizard 22. Elf died because started almost the same position as Death, I think I could reach two or three levels more. The Wizard, I'll have to admit I can't use the potions in an effective way. Too much failures, others wasted. The Elf now is much better, and I used the diagonal shooting to kill enemies without risk, I liked the changes.

 

Great, thanks for the review. Have you played it in Stella at all? I'm curious if the joystick fire button is harder to double-click than the keyboard. I dont have a Harmony to play on hardware.