Wanted: Feedback For Choplifter! & Karateka

[nosweargamer]

Thanks for all the feedback on the last two games!

I'm looking for feedback for the next episode of the Atari 7800 Game By Game Podcast (you can find it on iTunes or use this feed: http://feeds.feedburner.com/78gbg )

What are your memories and/or thoughts on Choplifter & Karateka on the 7800?

Also, how would you rate them? I use a system of 4 choices (From Best to Worst):

Hall of Fame Game (Top 5 officially released game on the system)

Solid Game

"Meh" Game

Trash Game (Bottom 5 game on the system)

These games will be covered on Episode 10.

You can also e-mail text or audio to atari7800podcast@aol.com

Just keep it family friendly

You can also send feedback or stories on previously covered games or the system itself. Thanks!

[toiletunes]

Karateka is notoriously bad. The controls are awkward, confusing, and delayed. You have to try to play it to understand. Choplifter is decent, but certain carts don't play nice with certain consoles, the graphics can mess up.

[Nutsy Doodleheimer]

Choplifter is definetley a solid game. Not as good as the Master System version. A simple but addicting game. Karateka!!?? HA HA HA!!! Trash game is a compliment. Worst game without a doubt on the system. And worst controlling game of all time. Dark Castle on the Genesis is more fun than that.

[tep392]

I haven't played Karateka on the 7800 and haven't played the Apple version since the early 80's, but I remember it being quite laggy. Has anyone played the 7800 and Apple versions side by side to compare controls? I'm curious how they compare.

[+wongojack]

1 - 5 scale with 1 as the worst, I give both these games a 1. People like Choplifter, but it is a true failure when compared to almost every other version of the game, and Karateka just doesn't work.

 

Regarding Choplifter, You might want to try and claim that we should judge the game on its own merits, but this game has been copied over and over from platform to platform. This is exactly the type of game that SHOULD be compared - and it compares poorly. Primarily because it does everything worse than the other versions. Even the older computer versions had higher difficulty and could NOT be so easily perfected. The game simply ends after one round which is pitiful compared to the SMS version, and the control compared to all the other versions is poor. It looks so different that the first time I played it, I thought - oh its based on the Arcade (which came after the computer version). Except I can't destroy tanks with a straight shot, and I can't figure out what height to position the chopper to ever make consistent contact with ground targets - except the hostages which I destroy with great alacrity. Even judged on its own, the game does nothing original and the abrupt ending is what pushes this down from a 2 to a 1 IMO. What is this, a demo?

 

Karateka - I actually have tried to play this game and learn the techniques. I think I could get better at beating up the guards, but I doubt I could finish the game. Only a borderline autistic could execute the boring repetition and memorization required to perfectly defeat all of the guards and have enough energy to kill the final boss. I don't consider this an accomplishment - It would be like saying "Hey, it was tough but I cleaned up all of the cigarette butts on the beach this weekend!" The thing that really pushes Karateka down to a 1 is the fact that the bird cannot be defeated in this version (can it?). I'm sure someone will claim they've punched/kicked the bird, but I think it is impossible. It is a stupid enemy included in the game to be faithful with other versions, and it is broken; an obvious mistake that makes the game impossible to enjoy.

[gambler172]

Choplifter is solid

Karateka is MEH

greetings Walter

[NIKON]

Choplifter...Solid game..tight controls..parallax scrolling...shows off the MARIA chip really well.

 

Karateka.. another parallax scrolling game that shows off the MARIA chip but the controls have a steep learning curve, but when you get the hang of the controls it is an alright game and I give it a meh only because of that stupid bird.

[Trebor]

Choplifter! = Meh. Based on the original computer Broderbund game and not the arcade game by Sega, what really hurts this title is its length. It's way too short and unfortunately the replay value goes to (nearly) nil once you've had a perfect game. Still, it can be addicting, especially shooting for that perfection goal.

Karateka = Meh. The game is not horrible, just not very good either. Further, playing it on another platform would likely tank this port pretty rapidly for many. Nonetheless, it has its own nuances and specific...uh...timings that were perceived as a welcomed challenge to me, BITD; which did find me wanting to come back for more.

All things considered, both fall short of being "Solid" or "Trash" respectively.

[+save2600]

Choplifter - meh

Karateka - trash

 

...odd (I guess not considering) that they screwed Karateka up as bad as they did. Computer versions, while clunky in their own right, were at least playable and "fun" at the time. 7800 version is not. By any stretch. blech!

[Bakasama]

Karateka

 

I got as far as Akuma then that damn unkillable bird got me and I stopped playing.

[thursday83]

Agreed with Bakasama. Is the bird actually killable? No, right? Anyhoo -

 

Choplifter - solid.

 

Karateka - one of the worst on the system, disappointing because it's fun on the Apple. And the graphics aren't terrible....needs a control hack!!!

[Trebor]

The thing that really pushes Karateka down to a 1 is the fact that the bird cannot be defeated in this version (can it?). I'm sure someone will claim they've punched/kicked the bird, but I think it is impossible. It is a stupid enemy included in the game to be faithful with other versions, and it is broken; an obvious mistake that makes the game impossible to enjoy.

Karateka.. another parallax scrolling game that shows off the MARIA chip but the controls have a steep learning curve, but when you get the hang of the controls it is an alright game and I give it a meh only because of that stupid bird.

I got as far as Akuma then that damn unkillable bird got me and I stopped playing.

Agreed with Bakasama. Is the bird actually killable? No, right? Anyhoo -

The bird cannot be killed, but can be avoided with no damage taken. Here is where not having previous exposure to any other port may help. If you're standing still, punching, or kicking, it will hit you. If you're moving forward it will not touch you. This is different than any other port of the game.

 

It's demonstrated here along with finishing the last boss, Akuma. I need to do my own recording one of these days of a completed game; regardless, thanks to "MaximRecoil" for this finisher:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODktLc-rM04

 

Note around 0:14 seconds, the bird comes out for the first time, the player is standing still and he takes a hit from the bird. Around 0:33, the bird comes out a second time, the player is moving forward, and does take a hit from Akuma, but the bird does nothing to the player.

 

The third time the bird comes out around the 0:46 mark, player is again moving forward and takes no hit from the bird, and the player is far enough from Akuma to avoid a hit from him as well.

 

The fourth time at around 0:54, for a final time, the bird comes out, the player, despite having no room to move forward, performs a forward movement walk; which again, avoids the bird from attacking, and happened to also avoid a hit from Akuma during his 'rest period' and walking.

 

Ready to give Akuma another shot? Just be 'moving forward' when the bird is near.

[+wongojack]

Ready to give Akuma another shot? Just be 'moving forward' when the bird is near.

 

No because that is a stupid accident that probably wasn't even meant as an intended way to avoid it.

[DracIsBack]

Karateka - trash. My biggest video game disappointment in history

 

Pared down

Brutal joystick control that was unresponsive

Needlessly simplified graphics

A hawk that looked like a drunken duck

 

Could have been great and had no reason to be as bad as it was. Love it on the Apple II and Atari 8bit.

 

Choplifter! Meh

 

Found it mildly amusing, but a really limited game in terms of depth. In 1987, this one seemed really out of place relative to what my NES friends were playing.

[SoulBlazer]

Choplifter -- solid for me. One of my all time favorite computer games, I played the heck out of the C64 version as a kid. This is a very good port of the original computer game, marred only by the awful controller. Some people have mentioned it's not as good as the SMS version -- well, duh, that was based off the Sega arcade version of the game which was designed to be superior anyway! It's not fair to compare them. I think the arcade/SMS version of the game is better also, but we're talking ports of the original computer game, and taken in that light the 7800 version is very good.

 

Karateka -- trash game. Where do I even begin to rag on this version? Controls, graphics, sound, hit detection, enemies, faithfulness to the original computer version -- in all of those areas this just sucks. I really like the original computer version also but I don't feel any of the ports of the game came out well. They shouldn't have even tried to bring this over to the 7800. It's a real WTF game on the system. For collectors only.

Edited May 15, 2015 by SoulBlazer

[Bakasama]

 

No because that is a stupid accident that probably wasn't even meant as an intended way to avoid it.

Well, I wouldn't mind trying that since I found out I can get unlimited lives in Tower Topper by messing around with the difficulty switches trick that lets you skip levels years ago.

[DracIsBack]

Karateka -- trash game. Where do I even begin to rag on this version? Controls, graphics, sound, hit detection, enemies, faithfulness to the original computer version -- in all of those areas this just sucks. I really like the original computer version also but I don't feel any of the ports of the game came out well. They shouldn't have even tried to bring this over to the 7800.

 

Actually, I think that's the problem. They didn't try at all. Terrible port that could have been much, much, much better.

 

It's not like Karateka is that cutting edge of a game that pushes 6502 hardware.

[Jinks]

Choplifter. boring game could have been better. I cant finish it the planes easily shoot me down.

Karateka, crap game should have never been made with controls that slow. reminded me of heros quest on tandy 1000 in the fighting sequence pressing thrust and 3 seconds later your character stabs at the monster.

[Major_Tom_coming_home]

I've never played the 7800 Choplifter but I had Karateka as a kid. At the time I found it to be 'meh' / 'okay occasionally' but 'frustrating.' In hindsight I think that is a generous review for a lousy game. In those days I didn't have an NES and Karateka was the closest thing I had to something like Contra or Double Dragon. Actually, I think that if I had played Contra or Double Dragon on the NES at a friends house there would have been no way I could have ever gone back to playing Karateka. Besides Karateka, the only 7800 games I had were arcade ports like Asteroids and Joust and the first time I saw Nintendo games it blew my mind. The sad part is that the 7800 was quite a capable console in it's own right, but but never reached it's full potential - Castlevania on 7800 with a Pokey chip might have been quite interesting (and quite possible)...

[Trebor]

It's not like Karateka is that cutting edge of a game that pushes 6502 hardware.

 

Indeed. It also barely touches the Maria graphics chip.

 

Actually, I think that if I had played Contra or Double Dragon on the NES at a friends house there would have been no way I could have ever gone back to playing Karateka.

 

No doubt, NES 256K Double Dragon buries 7800 48K Karateka, and it's better than the 128K 7800 port of Double Dragon; which, in spite of being provided half of its contemporary's space, and looks like a very rushed job, has already been shown it could have/should have appeared much better even under such space constraints.

It could have sounded great too. Regardless, Nintendo dumped and invested copious resources into the NES, that shows and paid off big time.

Unsurprisingly, the often compared Apple II version of Karateka is 140K. Apple was fully supportive of their Apple II line.

The 7800 had scraps of resources from Atari. The console was typically provided minimal space, time, and not necessarily the greatest handling of those already limited resources for a game, such as in the case of Karateka; unfortunately.

 

The sad part is that the 7800 was quite a capable console in it's own right, but but never reached it's full potential

 

Agreed. The upside is there's a lot of potential to tap and some great homebrews have been, and continue to be, released for it.

[Austin]

I place Choplifter in "Meh" territory. It's a solid playing game, doesn't look horrible either, but it's just one level. Beat it, and the game ends. The only other objective is to try to do it faster and I didn't find that very engaging.

 

Karateka is easily in the "trash" category, I doubt many will disagree with that.

[Classic Pac]

Well I played both I have to give Karateka a -1 rating it's horrible, the graphics are okay but the controls are just that horrible. I can't even imagine how you finish the game.

 

On the other hand I give Choplifter a 6, solid gameplay, plenty of action and not overly hard. I don't mean it's easy. It's just that I hate games that filled with cheap shots. Choplifter has very few of these and thankfully if you keep an eye on what is going on around you they can be avoided.

[Shawn]

choplifter is solid, karateka is a hunk of shit. You need that new designation of "HOS" for games as steamy as karateka.

[DracIsBack]

 

The 7800 had scraps of resources from Atari. The console was typically provided minimal space, time, and not necessarily the greatest handling of those already limited resources for a game, such as in the case of Karateka; unfortunately.

 

 

 

It showed when the developer briefly surfaced here to defend why the game was bad. Had all the earmarks of the type of software developer I hate working with ... a whiny "why we can't" attitude vs. a well thought out "How we can" attitude that a rockstar developer brings. Blaming others (the Tramiels, technical issues) instead of relishing how to do great work under constraints that a rockstar developer brings.

 

It seemed like Jack didn't want to pay for an A+ house and more like he took the "who came in with the lowest bid" contract.

[Greg2600]

Choplifter is fine, but Karateka is one of the worst video games ever released. Really a shame because the arcade version is a fantastic game.