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S-Video vs Composite out on AV mod 2600


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#1 gsrel OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 15, 2015 11:31 AM

Right now I have a modded 2600 light sixer using ElectronicSentimentalities board (svideo/composite) with composite video. I was wonder if s-video would greatly improve the video image?

 

Since my Denon AVR-9313 amp has everything but an S-Video input I was looking at something like this: http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

 

I thought I saw comparison screenshots before (rf / composite / s-video) but I can no longer find them. That and real world reviews would be appreciated :)


 



#2 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 15, 2015 11:53 AM

I'd argue there's little point of having s-video on such a system. Not like we're talking finely detailed multicolored anythings in most cases, that would benefit from such discrete separation. Sure, the overall picture may be a little better or cleaner, but unless you happen to already have a really nice s-video tv or monitor laying around - not worth the hassle IMO. Composite is excellent and RF with a nice fully shielded 75ohm cable and ferrite magnet on one end can be better than good enough,

#3 Mitkraft OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 15, 2015 11:54 AM

I don't know about the converter or your end result of displaying on what I assume is an HD-display since the Atari is so low-res to begin with, but I can attest to the composite and s-video differences in the electronic sentimentalities board.  I installed that same board in mine and originally had it displaying on a 27" CRT that only had composite input.  I tried feeding it both the direct composite signal as well as the s-video signal via a passive svideo to composite adapter.  Even then the s-video was slightly better.  But then I got a 27" TV with a proper s-video input the different was pretty noticeable.  Less color bleeding was the most notable improvement.  Even though there is still some, its pretty minimal now.  Since you've already got the mod board all you have to do is solder in the s-video jack and the resistor.  Its surely worth that simple step.



#4 Mitkraft OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 15, 2015 11:58 AM

I'd argue there's little point of having s-video on such a system. Not like we're talking finely detailed multicolored anythings in most cases, that would benefit from such discrete separation. Sure, the overall picture may be a little better or cleaner, but unless you happen to already have a really nice s-video tv or monitor laying around - not worth the hassle IMO. Composite is excellent and RF with a nice fully shielded 75ohm cable and ferrite magnet on one end can be better than good enough,

 

Looks like we posted at almost the same time and with totally opposite opinions.  I'm curious, have you done any comparison of RF VS Composite VS S-video on the Atari?  Because I'd never in a million years call composite "excellent" and RF on the Atari is weak at best unless you have a Heavy Sixer which as I understand it had a better modulator.



#5 copper20 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 15, 2015 11:58 AM

Composite is good enough for the Atari 2600, and even then you could still have decent quality of the Atari 2600 on RF with a filter cable from Radioshack.



#6 gsrel OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 15, 2015 12:02 PM

All my devices are connected to my Denon amp which upscale and upconverts to one HDMI cable to my tv. My TV is a 70" Sharp LED, unfortunately no S-Video input


Edited by gsrel, Fri May 15, 2015 12:03 PM.


#7 SpiceWare ONLINE  

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Posted Fri May 15, 2015 12:03 PM

S-Video for the win.  Click to see full-size photo as the scaling adds a moiré pattern.

 

Cyber.jpg


Edited by SpiceWare, Fri May 15, 2015 12:04 PM.


#8 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 15, 2015 12:09 PM

mileage and variables can vary with RF obviously, but I've seen such crisp s-video out of 2600's before that it looks "unnatural" to me. If that makes any sense. Guess I'm just used to (and appreciate) the native RF output of all models of 2600.

I've tried a handful of composite and s-video adapters throughout the years (including building my own) and have always ended up going back to good old RF on the 2600. Personal preference (including, but not limited to the way I feel about modded 2600's) really and like I said, I use extremely good cables.

7800 OTOH... there's a system that begs for better output any which way you can get it. :lol:



#9 ApolloBoy OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 15, 2015 4:09 PM

I'd argue there's little point of having s-video on such a system.

You kidding? S-video blows composite out of the water on the 2600.

#10 gsrel OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 9, 2015 5:46 AM

I must say I didnt expect svideo to make such a huge difference but it did. I was having issues with color bleeding/artifacts using composite which in turn made me think of using svideo. Colors off thread: http://atariage.com/...eo#entry3239311

 

I ended up purchasing one of these Monoprice Composite, S-Video, and HDMI to HDMI Converter/Switch so that I could have my NES, 2600 and Wii hooked up at the same time and output over HDMI:  http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

 

 As you can see the blacks are black, images are sharp and the color is amazing. Note, that even when using composite it was still being upscale and upconverted using my Denon amp which outputs over HDMI. I will have to do final adjustments in regards to the colors however its almost there :)
 

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Edited by gsrel, Tue Jun 9, 2015 5:48 AM.


#11 hizzy OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:26 PM

Wow! I have my first 2600 on the way, and the Electronic Sentimentalities mod looks great. So, if I understand, the s-video output goes to this box: http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

 

And then you output it via HDMI to your TV? 

 

Thanks!



#12 TheRedEye OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:24 AM

I must say I didnt expect svideo to make such a huge difference but it did. I was having issues with color bleeding/artifacts using composite which in turn made me think of using svideo. Colors off thread: http://atariage.com/...eo#entry3239311

 

I ended up purchasing one of these Monoprice Composite, S-Video, and HDMI to HDMI Converter/Switch so that I could have my NES, 2600 and Wii hooked up at the same time and output over HDMI:  http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

 

 As you can see the blacks are black, images are sharp and the color is amazing. Note, that even when using composite it was still being upscale and upconverted using my Denon amp which outputs over HDMI. I will have to do final adjustments in regards to the colors however its almost there :)
 

 

The artificial sharpening in your HDMI picture is hurting my soul. Can you turn that down/off?

 

And for what it's worth, I'm with save2600 on this one. I am one of those people who has RGB modded consoles on a PVM monitor, but for 2600 I stick with the stock RF (on a Sunnyvale Heavy Sixer if you can manage it!). Anything else looks really unnatural to me.


Edited by TheRedEye, Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:26 AM.


#13 hizzy OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:25 PM

S-Video for the win.  Click to see full-size photo as the scaling adds a moiré pattern.

 

Cyber.jpg

 

If I can ask, what kind of television do you use? That's a great image :)



#14 SpiceWare ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:27 PM

If I can ask, what kind of television do you use? That's a great image :)


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#15 KAZ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:08 PM

Sorry for necrobump, I have a quick (unrelated question).  I figured this might be a good spot to try to get an answer.

 

 

 

I bought a 'composite video and s-video switch' from amazon to try with my atari 2600 and atari 5200 s-video modded consoles.

 

It would not work, no idea why.

 

I hooked both systems directly to s-video, and they both work just fine.

 

I swapped around cords a bunch, and nothing would work.

 

Has anyone had a 'composite video and s-video switch' work with s-video modded consoles before?   And if so, please tell me what you bought. 

 

 

And IF switches in general don't work with these consoles, is there a reason?  (perhaps they do).


Edited by KAZ, Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:09 PM.


#16 H454 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:08 PM

Is everything connected just s-video and audio?

Or do you have composite video leads connected at the same time as the s-video?

The switchs don't convert from one type to another.

Also, most tv will choose s-video when both comp. and svid are connected.


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#17 KAZ OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:03 PM

I had the s-video cord going from my atari 5200 to the switch, and then another s-video cord going from the switch to the tv. Thanks for the response...I might try messing with it some more. I didn't use any composite cords.

#18 maiki OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:58 AM

 

All my devices are connected to my Denon amp which upscale and upconverts to one HDMI cable to my tv. My TV is a 70" Sharp LED, unfortunately no S-Video input

 

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#19 SignGuy81 ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:16 PM

I must say I didnt expect svideo to make such a huge difference but it did. I was having issues with color bleeding/artifacts using composite which in turn made me think of using svideo. Colors off thread: http://atariage.com/...eo#entry3239311

 

I ended up purchasing one of these Monoprice Composite, S-Video, and HDMI to HDMI Converter/Switch so that I could have my NES, 2600 and Wii hooked up at the same time and output over HDMI:  http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

 

 As you can see the blacks are black, images are sharp and the color is amazing. Note, that even when using composite it was still being upscale and upconverted using my Denon amp which outputs over HDMI. I will have to do final adjustments in regards to the colors however its almost there :)
 

 

 

 

Your last two images show fine verticle bars on the screen.  The two images before do not have those.  The reason I'm curious is I just finished my first composite mod today and I have the same bars and was wondering if this is normal for the composite mod.  My atari flashback I've modded does not show these on the screen.  Other than that I like the picture it looks great other than a little ghosting.  It almost makes it look like I'm playing on a CRT so I don't know if I should complain or like it.



#20 -^CrožBow^- OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:34 PM

Jail bars are pretty much the norm on 2600s with S-video. I think the vertical banding was always present but couldn't be seen with RF and Composite combining everything together. But I've done s-video to both my 2600 and 7800 and they both exhibit this. I've also thought it could be my comp/s-vid to HDMI converter as well causing it. However, a few systems that go through the same converter do NOT show this. My Genesis once I modded the 32x doesn't really have these anymore. My TurboDuo doesn't have these and my SNES and Saturn are jail bar free. So again it is more than likely some sort of interference that is inherent in these older consoles would be my guess.



#21 SignGuy81 ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:53 PM

Jail bars are pretty much the norm on 2600s with S-video. I think the vertical banding was always present but couldn't be seen with RF and Composite combining everything together. But I've done s-video to both my 2600 and 7800 and they both exhibit this. I've also thought it could be my comp/s-vid to HDMI converter as well causing it. However, a few systems that go through the same converter do NOT show this. My Genesis once I modded the 32x doesn't really have these anymore. My TurboDuo doesn't have these and my SNES and Saturn are jail bar free. So again it is more than likely some sort of interference that is inherent in these older consoles would be my guess.

Thank you for the reply.  The reason I was wondering was because I thought I might try to sell a few and didn't want to sell them and people come back after me being like WTF is this and say it isn't right and want there money back.  I guess I will just make sure I let people know in advance that they will see fine vertical bars on the screen and tell them it is pretty much the norm for these units. 



#22 -^CrožBow^- OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:40 PM

Thank you for the reply.  The reason I was wondering was because I thought I might try to sell a few and didn't want to sell them and people come back after me being like WTF is this and say it isn't right and want there money back.  I guess I will just make sure I let people know in advance that they will see fine vertical bars on the screen and tell them it is pretty much the norm for these units. 

 

I had forgotten to mention that of my classic consoles of the early 80s that I have AV modded, my 5200 is by far the best looking one of the bunch when it comes to the s-video. But yes the vertical bars or jail bars are pretty common in the av mods for these older consoles. I believe there is even a thread elsewhere of another member asking if there was a way or if anyone had found a way to eliminate the jail bars. I've gotten used to it and prefer the overall cleaner and much sharper look. 






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