Jump to content

Photo

Talking about Raster Music Tracker (RMT)

rmt

23 replies to this topic

#1 vitoco OFFLINE  

vitoco

    Moonsweeper

  • 333 posts

Posted Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:42 PM

Hi.

 

Raster gave us a wonderful tool to compose and play music in our 8bit Atari computers. Thank you!

 

Although I googled for information about RMT, I could only find a couple of pages with some editor shortcuts, but no user manual or tutorial is available (AFAIK).

 

I've played with the songs included in the latest release, changing parameters and trying to guess what the result was, if any...

 

I'd like to compose something from scratch (including the design of the instruments), but I have no idea how to start.

 

There are many "obscure" things like the parameters (flags) inside rmt_feat.a65 config file, or the purpose of the frequency tables inside rmtplayr.a65.

 

I'd really apperciate if someone could share here some docs, reveal the secrets of the player, introduce things like the "song" concept or just tell us his experience using this music tracker.

 

Thanks!

 



#2 billkendrick OFFLINE  

billkendrick

    Chopper Commander

  • 120 posts
  • Location:Davis, CA

Posted Wed Jul 1, 2015 12:40 AM

I've not tried to toy with RMT yet myself, but it seems like the de-facto "gold standard" for music composition these days, so I'm definitely hoping there are (or will some day be) some tutorials for utter n00bs like me.  I played with Chaos Music Composer, never enough to make real music, back in the 1990s. :-/

 

I'm also curious, was RMT's source ever released? With the untimely death of Radek, I worry about the communities ability to update the software.



#3 baktra ONLINE  

baktra

    Dragonstomper

  • 619 posts
  • Location:Czech republic

Posted Fri Jul 3, 2015 9:41 AM

User documentation for Rmt has always been available in the download package. Doc/Rmt_en.htm is the file name.You will be able to find some explanations there. Besides, the Rmt site is still available at http://raster.infos.cz/.

As for the source code, only members of his user group may know.

#4 emkay ONLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • 9,715 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Fri Jul 3, 2015 10:47 AM

RMT is the best PC Tracker for the A8, for sure.
Depending on many missing features and the faulty POKEY emulations... things will never get finished...



#5 emkay ONLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • 9,715 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Sat Jul 4, 2015 8:13 AM

RMT is really a powerful tool. Without it, it wasn't possible to create all of the sound demonstations.

Some of them show what POKEY is able to to. Some of them show impressively the different sound styles.




Questions?

#6 emkay ONLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • 9,715 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Sat Jul 4, 2015 9:00 AM

What I'm trying to explain is that the result in RMT differs even in simple "atari waves" . So any song sounds different on the real thing.
But, this doesn't usually mean worse... or better. It's just the stability of the created sounds.

So, If you want to create something special in RMT, you always have to replay the resulting tune on a real machine, to compare whether it works, or sounds different.


The two examples were played on the ASMA ...

This one was recored from a real Atari:



A native soundtracker, running of a real machine, doesn't have this problem.

Edited by emkay, Sat Jul 4, 2015 9:01 AM.


#7 Creature XL OFFLINE  

Creature XL

    Dragonstomper

  • 904 posts
  • Location:Hannover.De

Posted Sat Jul 4, 2015 12:57 PM

A native soundtracker, running of a real machine, doesn't have this problem.

 

I am pretty sure I will regret this, but I am way too curious.

Some years ago, when I started to experimenting in writing a tracker to run ON the A8 and asked you for input, you said it is not worth it. Only a PC tool would be useful.

Now it seems you are saying something totally different?

 

BTW, the "Bankong knights" is cool.



#8 emkay ONLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • 9,715 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Sat Jul 4, 2015 1:11 PM

Now it seems you are saying something totally different?


I'm just explaining one of the biggest flaws of RMT, that the emulations weren't really sounding like a real machine.
A PC tool is the only tool, to have people working on "A8" music, when they only use a PC and don't own a real A8 setup. There is no controversy ;)

#9 emkay ONLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • 9,715 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Sat Jul 4, 2015 1:27 PM

BTW, the "Bankong knights" is cool.


My personal favorite is this still this one... (from 1:19 on)



... there is still nothing compareable in the quality of stability of the melody and used sounds, created variations, and used octaves....

#10 sack-c0s OFFLINE  

sack-c0s

    Stargunner

  • 1,191 posts
  • Location:Scheveningen, Netherlands

Posted Sat Jul 4, 2015 2:05 PM

a RMT network hack, which uses the PC editor but can keep an Atari in sync as a player would be pretty cool.

 

Should solve the editor comfort problem and the playback accuracy



#11 emkay ONLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • 9,715 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Sat Jul 4, 2015 2:22 PM

a RMT network hack, which uses the PC editor but can keep an Atari in sync as a player would be pretty cool.
 
Should solve the editor comfort problem and the playback accuracy


And, when enough sound examples /Music were available, people could correct the emulations ...

#12 vitoco OFFLINE  

vitoco

    Moonsweeper

  • Topic Starter
  • 333 posts

Posted Wed Jul 8, 2015 11:13 AM

RMT editor is able to emulate using one of two different libraries: apokeysnd.dll and sa_pokey.dll ... Based on your experience, which of them is the recomended one?



#13 emkay ONLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • 9,715 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Wed Jul 8, 2015 2:17 PM

apokeysnd seems closer to the real thing, but there are still volume and timing differences.
Also, the emulation seems to get interfered with any interrupt on the PC...

at the start and the end of the tune, there were "waveshape" glitches, pokey plays that stable.



#14 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

Heaven/TQA

    Quadrunner

  • 11,199 posts
  • Location:Baden-Württemberg, Germany

Posted Wed Jul 8, 2015 3:32 PM

Triace fights with RMT each time... In last musics Miker needed to help but Triace never would touch native tracker except on Amiga.... Only PC trackers even for SIDs.

#15 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

Heaven/TQA

    Quadrunner

  • 11,199 posts
  • Location:Baden-Württemberg, Germany

Posted Wed Jul 8, 2015 3:34 PM

Emkay btw which tool are you using recording PC screen recordings?

#16 emkay ONLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • 9,715 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Wed Jul 8, 2015 11:06 PM

Emkay btw which tool are you using recording PC screen recordings?


CamStudio

#17 emkay ONLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • 9,715 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:48 AM

Another example of modulations... played inside RMT. But there's the problem, handling the modulations: You cannot manipulate them directly, just passive.




#18 analmux OFFLINE  

analmux

    Stargunner

  • 2,392 posts

Posted Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:02 PM

@ emkay,

Why not doing a new try of your own compositions? 99% of your hundreds of tunes are all existing non-PoKey tunes, ported to RMT songs.

Edited by analmux, Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:05 PM.


#19 analmux OFFLINE  

analmux

    Stargunner

  • 2,392 posts

Posted Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:48 PM

Or at least an old try, f.e. the one we worked together:

atari000.png



#20 analmux OFFLINE  

analmux

    Stargunner

  • 2,392 posts

Posted Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:54 PM

Or what about this silly test? ;)



See more also here about RMT 1.28 Patch 8:

http://atariage.com/...69-rmt-patch-8/
http://atariage.com/...-8-programming/

#21 emkay ONLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • 9,715 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:13 AM

@ emkay,

Why not doing a new try of your own compositions? 99% of your hundreds of tunes are all existing non-PoKey tunes, ported to RMT songs.


You know, back in those days.... the late 70s .... such pieces of sound would have been groundbraking. Today it is nothing special, and also , the response is rather low, because there is nothing more different than every person's taste of music.

#22 emkay ONLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • 9,715 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:48 PM

btw.. taste of music

I never didn't bother about "Cats in the cradle", and I'm also not really satisfied with the sound of POKEY, but I like the result of the conversion, thinking of all the given limits ... and, well, YOUTUBE immediatly recognized the "original" tune ;)



#23 vitoco OFFLINE  

vitoco

    Moonsweeper

  • Topic Starter
  • 333 posts

Posted Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:20 PM

About Tempo: is there a way to tweak the player or modify a song in a RMT file in real time, in order to play it at the same speed on both NTSC and PAL real hardware?

 

I'm trying to find a way not to have two versions of the same XEX program, just one that is able to adjust the speed based on the detected hardware.

 

BTW, RMT editor has an option to select between NTSC and PAL, but that's only during playback in the editor, AFAIK.



#24 Xuel ONLINE  

Xuel

    Dragonstomper

  • 741 posts
  • Location:US

Posted Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:22 PM

In your VBI or frame loop, you can skip every sixth call to the player to play a PAL RMT on an NTSC machine. If the tempo is not a multiple of 5 though you'll get some syncopation but it might not be too bad. If you can afford to burn CPU cycles you could poll VCOUNT to wait exactly 312 scanlines between calls to the player.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: rmt

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users