Atari Flashback 6

[onmode-ky]

Brand new to this forum, but just bought one of these yesterday.

Just picked one of these up at Family Dollar today!

All right, two people now with final FB6 hardware in their hands. I posted a list of FB6 questions earlier in this thread (here's a handy link), the majority of which should be answerable by anyone with the final hardware. Could you guys take a few minutes to look at the questions, test things out on your FB6s, and post answers here? Thanks in advance!

 

onmode-ky

 

P.S. Am I correct in assuming that the games are just listed alphabetically in the main menu (with the 8 new titles merged in, rather than being split out in a separate section)? And that Swordquest: Waterworld is just listed under 'W' as "Waterworld"?

Edited October 6, 2015 by onmode-ky

[Bloodcat]

Is it just me or should they maybe lay off with the 2600 and maybe try a 7800 or 5200/XEGS one? I mean those machines werent nearly as popular but the machines were so much better than the 2600!

I could kind of understand that some licenses have expired but as long as it is not some odd split thing with the Tramiels the ones that haven't would at least be great extras and add ons to future machines. Sure it might mean they have to actually make a new case but the internals are still probably plenty usable, something they wouldn't be for most of the Atari arcade stuff. Maybe not enough horsepower.

 

I've had the same issues with a lot of disk compilations for Atari stuff. Its like if its not the arcade or the 2600 it doesn't exist! No Jaguar. No 8 bit computers. No 7800. (Correct me if I am wrong here though.)

 

I have the same issues with Activision. Why keep bringing out the 2600 games when the A8 and C64 and Colecovision and Intellivision and TI 99 all had superior versions of a ton of their back catalog? Why not show these games in the best possible way?

I really can't play 2600 HERO when the Coleco or C64 version exists. And River Raid? A8 bit or GTFO I say! It might only be a little bit, but A8 Kaboom! is so much better IMO.

 

(And considering They even had C64 Activision packs for Win 95 its not like they don't know this stuff exists. Though it wasn't any of the 2600 stuff for some oddball reason.)

 

Then again, compilations in general are a pain, especially as a US gamer. Japan got a ton of legit ports of arcade classics. Even stuff like Terra Cresta, UpnDown, and Haunted Castle had some sort of legit release. Quartet? Yes that too! Yall will get my PSP Salamander pack when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

 

Now stuff based on licenses I can sort of accept even if so many Alien franchise arcade games are lost to most of us (legally anyhow) forever.

 

And I can kind of understand Atgames or anyone else not wanting to make a Vectrex (Retro VGS? Dumb and pointless. SUPER VECTREX REBORN? WHERE DO I PUT MY MONEY? TAKE MY MONEY! ILL EAT RAMEN FOR A WHILE DAMN YOU!) or some of the more obscure stuff but...

 

There are more options. And honestly most of these games MAME team or other emulation and translation crews have already done the work for FREE you could probably pay for cheap which would cover most of the work to put games that are mostly sub 1 Megabyte in size on legit collections. Or at least GOG/Steam/PSN. Even some Irem stuff got released on Dotemu for crying out loud! And no Japan stop saying DURR WE LOST THE SOURCE CODE LOL because I aint buying that excuse no more!

 

(Sorry felt I needed to rant. I just don't want to have to pirate or anything and will spend money for reasonably priced legit collections of old classics. And not just the same basic pile of Midway, Atari, and Namco games that we have had a bajillion releases of. Sure they probably still sell but.. use the rest of the back catalog! Taito has more than just Space Invader dangit!)

[Atariboy]

It's the Atari Flashback and is reliant on emulation.

 

So there's nothing that would have to be eliminated since there's nothing there that says that they can't expand the concept such as adding emulated arcade games to their lineup. (Although I'm skeptical their hardware is up to that challenge). Indeed, they'd be foolish to cut their ties with the system that many of their potential customers equate to Atari. But I've long thought that emulating Atari's 8 bit line would be a logical extension to provide numerous new titles to their lineup.

 

The Atari 7800 though isn't something that I'd expect to ever see. There are extremely few non-licensed games that would be available for it. I made an attempt at a list a few years ago that I believe is reasonably complete. After you take away titles like Ms. Pac-Man that require an outside license and several light gun shooters with no joystick mode, you're left with this. And you can likely take away a few more that require 2 buttons, since AtGames surely would stick with their CX-40 lookalike.

 

-Alien Brigade
-Asteroids
-Basketbrawl
-Centipede
-Desert Falcon
-Fatal Run
-Food Fight
-Motor Pyscho
-Ninja Golf
-Planet Smashers
-Realsports Baseball
-Scrapyard Dog

I've highlighted the three really solid additions that 7800 emulation could bring to the Atari Flashback 7 (Although 2 or 3 others are certainly still halfway decent games). Two of those are already here in 2600 form and the third, as great as it is, isn't the best remembered game around. Hard to imagine that the critical mass of solid classics are there that would ever justify the financial expenditure of emulating the platform via increased sales and positive reaction from their consumers.

 

And with few exceptions, you can't even go get someone like PacManPlus onboard with his homebrews, since so many of the best homebrews face the same dilemma that Atari's own 7800 titles like Ms. Pac-Man, Commando, Donkey Kong, Galaga, and others would face.

 

The budget for numerous licensed games just isn't there.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Atariboy

[Bill Loguidice]

People have been calling for a revision to the Atari Flashback for ages. The main stumbling block is the lack of name recognition for Atari's other platforms and available game content to license with similarly suitable name recognition (a combination that apparently hurt the sales of both the Intellivision and ColecoVision Flashbacks, which is why we didn't see the sequels to those).

 

While AtGames has the rights to a sufficient number of arcade licenses to the point where they can attempt an Arcade Flashback, I think the relatively cool reception to the new entries in the Flashback line has kind of made them stick to what sells, and that's the existing Atari and Sega configurations. I'll be very curious what their plans will be for 2016, and it that will feature any further attempts at expanding the lineup in any meaningful way (beyond tweaking the game lists of the bellwether Atari and Sega products). Certainly they could create a new version of the Atari Flashback that incorporates games from multiple systems, including the arcade, but it ultimately comes down to if it would make a difference in sales to the target audience of casual big box shoppers (i.e., not us).

[PacManPlus]

Bill makes a lot of sense. I also agree that a 'Atari Legends' type of Flashback that covers multiple systems (including Arcade) is the closest we will ever see to having other systems. I personally believe that would be a selling point, if for no other reason that it isn't a re-hash of everything that's been done 7 times over.

 

Regarding my games: (mentioned in Atariboy's post above - thank you!)

- Meteor Shower

- Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest (it's Atari's IP anyway)

- Super Circus AtariAge (just change the name to Super Circus Atari)

- Failsafe (or even call it 'Countermeasure II' like I was going to originally)

- Armor Attack II (just change the name and the one maze that was a homage to the original Armor Attack)

- Crazy Brix

- Space Duel

- They could even put the 7800 version of Space Invaders on it, it's close enough to the one that's already in there...

- Dark Mountain (forthcoming)

 

None of those would require extra licensing ( other than me of course )

There are also other authors that have made / are currently making much better homebrews than I ever could that could be added.

 

The only problem, is that the 7800 'section' would be come more of a 'homebrew' section than any retail games. People wouldn't obviously 'remember' them.

...or, maybe that could be it's own section - 'Current Homebrews' for each of the systems.

 

I don't know. I really have no idea what would sell and what wouldn't. :-/

Bob

Edited October 8, 2015 by PacManPlus

[Bill Loguidice]

I don't know. I really have no idea what would sell and what wouldn't. :-/

Bob

 

The (sales) evidence seems to indicate that if you don't have name titles on there, it just doesn't sell like it should. In other words, the quality or density of the games doesn't really matter, it's the name dropping, e.g., Mortal Kombat, Sonic, Space Invaders, Frogger, etc., that the average big box consumer would immediately recognize. When I advised AtGames on previous versions of the Flashbacks, it was very important to them what games and names should be placed most prominently on the box.

 

If instead this were a product targeted at us, then by all means we'd care about the quality of the games, the quality of the video output, the quality of the controls, etc., but we're only a tiny fraction of the market, and, frankly, our demands would drive the price point well beyond where it needs to be (it has to be the price it's sold at with zero wiggle room, otherwise the stores wouldn't carry it).

[PacManPlus]

Ah.

 

I am so blinded by being in this hobby, I guess it's easy to lose sight of what the average consumer wants. (Thanks Bill, for the insight).

 

In that case, I can't see us ever getting anything but the 2600 version, and *maybe* an arcade version.

 

I'm out.

Bob

[Inky]

"Atari Climber?"

Is that what I think it is?

[Atariboy]

 

The (sales) evidence seems to indicate that if you don't have name titles on there, it just doesn't sell like it should. In other words, the quality or density of the games doesn't really matter, it's the name dropping, e.g., Mortal Kombat, Sonic, Space Invaders, Frogger, etc., that the average big box consumer would immediately recognize. When I advised AtGames on previous versions of the Flashbacks, it was very important to them what games and names should be placed most prominently on the box.

 

If instead this were a product targeted at us, then by all means we'd care about the quality of the games, the quality of the video output, the quality of the controls, etc., but we're only a tiny fraction of the market, and, frankly, our demands would drive the price point well beyond where it needs to be (it has to be the price it's sold at with zero wiggle room, otherwise the stores wouldn't carry it).

 

 

What about repeat sales though? Perhaps I'm just reaching for any reason why some of these improvements actually would be beneficial to their bottom line, but that's the one spot that I think provides a fair argument in favor of significant revisions to this successful line.

 

Presumably after so many iterations, a sizable percentage of sales that AtGames is going after each year are from owners of an existing model in this lineup. While solid new additions to their Atari Flashback line might not do much to increase shelf appeal, they can certainly encourage people to keep coming back after experiencing them first-hand.

 

But with the type of change that we've grown accustomed to, I suspect quite a few repeat buyers end up disappointed and never return for a 3rd try.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Atariboy

[TrekkiELO]

People have been calling for a revision to the Atari Flashback for ages. The main stumbling block is the lack of name recognition for Atari's other platforms and available game content to license with similarly suitable name recognition (a combination that apparently hurt the sales of both the Intellivision and ColecoVision Flashbacks, which is why we didn't see the sequels to those).

 

I think another AtGames epic fail that also hurt sales was they did not fully utilize all of their licenses or easy to get ones and got greedy by apparently holding back way too many well known obvious ColecoVision arcade conversions, then Intellivision licensed games for the now unlikely sequels...

 

ColecoVision Flashback

 

Sega

Carnival

Congo Bongo

Planet of Zoom w/o Buck Rogers

SubRoc-3D

Turbo

Up'n Down

 

Taito

Front Line

 

Universal

Lady Bug

Mr. Do!

 

Exidy

Mouse Trap

Victory

 

Konami

Roc'n Rope

 

Midway

Gorf

Root Beer Tapper

Spy Hunter

 

Venture Line

Looping

 

Century II

Slither

 

Data East

BurgerTime

 

 

Intellivision Flashback

Skiing

Deadly Discs w/o Tron

 

Konami

Loco-Motion

Super Cobra

Tutankham

 

Data East

Lock 'n' Chase

 

Activision

Happy Trails

 

Imagic

Atlantis

Beauty & The Beast

Demon Attack

Dracula

Ice Trek

Microsurgeon

Safecracker

Swords & Serpents

Tropical Trouble

Truckin'

White Water!

Edited October 11, 2015 by TrekkiELO

[Bill Loguidice]

 

I think another AtGames epic fail that also hurt sales was they did not fully utilize all of their licenses or easy to get ones and got greedy by apparently holding back way too many well known obvious ColecoVision arcade conversions, then Intellivision licensed games for the now unlikely sequels...

 

 

"Got greedy" is not exactly true. They got all they could on the Coleco side this time. The limitation to Intellivision Productions stuff on the Intellivision side was a deliberate decision by Intellivision Productions. Licenses come and go. For instance, they only just got the Mortal Kombat licenses back for this year's products. Naturally, they'll have to add to the products if they do ever get sequels. However, only a small handful of the games you listed would make an actual difference in sales to the type of person who buys these. It's all about name recognition, and only a small handful of what you listed have any meaning to the average person.

[TrekkiELO]

 

"Got greedy" is not exactly true. They got all they could on the Coleco side this time. The limitation to Intellivision Productions stuff on the Intellivision side was a deliberate decision by Intellivision Productions. Licenses come and go. For instance, they only just got the Mortal Kombat licenses back for this year's products. Naturally, they'll have to add to the products if they do ever get sequels. However, only a small handful of the games you listed would make an actual difference in sales to the type of person who buys these. It's all about name recognition, and only a small handful of what you listed have any meaning to the average person.

 

You even agreed with me in another thread late last year that "You didn't know why" AtGames at the very least didn't have more Sega games, then also, Taito's Front Line using their still current licenses between those two companies on this ColecoVision Flashback!

 

Here http://atariage.com/forums/topic/224996-colecovision-flashback-system/?p=3069407

Edited October 11, 2015 by TrekkiELO

[Bill Loguidice]

 

You even agreed with me in another thread late last year that "You didn't know why" AtGames at the very least didn't have more Sega games, then also, Taito's Front Line using their still current licenses between those two companies on this ColecoVision Flashback!

 

Here http://atariage.com/forums/topic/224996-colecovision-flashback-system/?p=3069407

 

Exactly, more is better, but it doesn't mean the same licensing rules applied. I don't know the specifics, obviously. Certainly an issue with some of those games, like Front Line (and Slither, another title you mentioned), is that it would have to be a controller modified version like Destructor was. That's another layer of licensing.

[Bill Loguidice]

I'm discussing the 2016 products with AtGames now (again, it looks like just Atari and Sega updates), so if anyone has any suggestions for games to include - particularly arcade games (Battlezone, Pooyan, etc., are some obvious ones that come to mind) - let me know and I'll pass it on to them. They're looking for new games to license.

[Newsdee]

How about the fixed E.T.? http://www.neocomputer.org/projects/et/

Although probably hard to license...

[Bill Loguidice]

How about the fixed E.T.? http://www.neocomputer.org/projects/et/

Although probably hard to license...

 

Yeah, something like that and Star Wars (and anything else with a secondary IP) would be too difficult to license. Anyway, I gave them a list of all of the arcade games on the 2600 that they previously didn't license, so we'll see what they'll be able to wrangle. It's actually quite difficult to identify who owns the rights to many of these games. Sad, really, as we all know they have value for a variety of reasons.

[Emehr]

The easiest way to figure out who owns the licenses is to produce and sell a limited run of Flashbacks with the licenses in question. Then sit and wait with an agreement document they can't refuse and a check waiting for each one. If the license owners say "Go with it" then produce more Flashbacks. For absentee license owners, put the money in an account until they turn up. If name recognition is what it takes to sell these things then it may be worth the risk. Either that, or hire someone to seek out the rights holders.

[Bill Loguidice]

The easiest way to figure out who owns the licenses is to produce and sell a limited run of Flashbacks with the licenses in question. Then sit and wait with an agreement document they can't refuse and a check waiting for each one. If the license owners say "Go with it" then produce more Flashbacks. For absentee license owners, put the money in an account until they turn up. If name recognition is what it takes to sell these things then it may be worth the risk. Either that, or hire someone to seek out the rights holders.

 

With all due respect, that's a terrible idea. :-) Most businesses would be sued out of existence if they tried something like that and asked for forgiveness later. In any case, they do have someone who seeks out the rights holders. It's just not as easy as you may (or may not) imagine.

 

I'd also be curious how much value there is with each new high profile game added. For instance, let's say they added "Frogger" on the box and on the product. Would that be good for an additional 10,000 units? More? Less? That would be an interesting data point.

[AtarinDave]

I'm discussing the 2016 products with AtGames now (again, it looks like just Atari and Sega updates), so if anyone has any suggestions for games to include - particularly arcade games (Battlezone, Pooyan, etc., are some obvious ones that come to mind) - let me know and I'll pass it on to them. They're looking for new games to license.

 

How about Luner Lander?

[Emehr]

With all due respect, that's a terrible idea. :-)

Yes, I know. My post started as tongue-in-cheek then evolved to "well, what if?".

 

Most businesses would be sued out of existence if they tried something like that and asked for forgiveness later.

Well, there is the old adage, "It's easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission." Not sure if that applies to industries with slim margins.

 

In any case, they do have someone who seeks out the rights holders. It's just not as easy as you may (or may not) imagine.

I can't even begin to imagine where to start, which is why I proposed having the rights-holders come to AtGames. It seems like there could be a mechanism in place to publicly post an intent to publish and give a timeline for those against to act. That would require making such a mechanism visible to the rights-holders who may not even be aware that they hold any rights to those games. There's got to be some way to draw rights-holders out of hiding without going to production.

 

I'd also be curious how much value there is with each new high profile game added. For instance, let's say they added "Frogger" on the box and on the product. Would that be good for an additional 10,000 units? More? Less? That would be an interesting data point.

I haven't been following the Flashback much since version 2 but is there data available on sold units and which games were prominently advertised? I don't recall any one game being singled out on any of the boxes but I've also been out of the loop for a while.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

How about Luner Lander?

 

I'm not aware of a Lunar Lander for the Atari 2600. Did someone make a homebrew that I missed?

[Bill Loguidice]

I haven't been following the Flashback much since version 2 but is there data available on sold units and which games were prominently advertised? I don't recall any one game being singled out on any of the boxes but I've also been out of the loop for a while.

 

They've mostly done the singling out on the Sega side with games like Sonic and Mortal Kombat, but for all of their Flashback products they always try to prominently feature select games and artwork that the average person will recognize.

[PacManPlus]

 

I'm not aware of a Lunar Lander for the Atari 2600. Did someone make a homebrew that I missed?

JohnnyWC did a 'fixed' port of it for the original Flashback 2+ (that they never ended up using, as far as I know)

Edited October 13, 2015 by PacManPlus

[Emehr]

Lunar Lander is on the Flashback 2. On the back of the box, at least.

[Newsdee]

Would it be too expensive to add an SD card slot to it? Or just have the connectors for one inside. That way the hard-core minority can mod it, but the general population will still buy a new version with more games.