Zonie Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Been following this on FB and a little bit here. Perhaps a Retro VGS daughter board is in order? I think this is gonna be a popular console in this community. Where to put it? Modern consoles or vintage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwantgames:) Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I doubt it will get its own section in the forums until it comes out and becomes a popular topic to talk about or it would be a pretty empty section Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah98 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I'm really excited about it. It probably should be in the Modern Consoles section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIO2 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 A very interesting machine indeed. I was reading about it on their website. The FPGA sounds very flexible and liberating for designers. It will be exciting to see where this goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I think this thing is going to be laughable when it's released. That said, I hope to eat those words some day. (That hope's not very high.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIO2 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Hard to say. I don't think I would laugh at it regardless but will I get one at launch? That depends on price, what it can do and what I believe it could do. One thing I find strange is that they are preparing a custom controller when the system is capable of using Genesis, Atari or USB controllers. The FAQ talks a lot about keeping costs down. Clone Genesis controllers are pretty darn cheap. Unless they are getting a killer deal, I guess I don't understand the advantage of a new controller for a retro style system. A lot of people ditch the pack in controllers and get something that fits their own taste anyhow. It is interesting that they say it is not like retron yet it can pretend to be an Atari or whatever system. So can adapters be created that would allow VGS to play Atari games from original carts? Could this thing be a universal Retron? Edited July 28, 2015 by SIO2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegadot Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I can see the desire to have a controller with more buttons the the one they chose, if it's still the Wii knock-off one, has not reviewed well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIO2 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I can see the desire to have a controller with more buttons the the one they chose, if it's still the Wii knock-off one, has not reviewed well. Yes. They are wanting to use the Wii U style controller which looks to me like it has similar number of buttons and sticks as PS2 dualshock. I really like PS2 dualshock which I suppose could be used with Retro VGS with a PS2 to USB adapter. Here is the Retro VGS website. http://www.retrovgs.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Let's take it from the top and keep it simple. How am I going to play my original old retro/classic games on this? I mean like my Intellivision and VCS and Colecovision games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Let's take it from the top and keep it simple. How am I going to play my original old retro/classic games on this? I mean like my Intellivision and VCS and Colecovision games. You're not. That is not what this machine is for. It will use it's own cartridge format. This isn't an all in one for old carts. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazball Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm pretty excited about the Retro VGS. However, price will be a major consideration. Also, I think he has already made a few missteps - specifically, using the Jaguar console and cart molds. Don't get me wrong, I like the Jaguar but there is room for improvement. But to "keep costs down" he won't be adding a dust cover for the cart slot or improving the cart handle (which does not take an end label well at all). Of course that would be ok, except he is doing a Kickstarter to raise money. Well, if you're going to ask for money before even having something ready, you should be willing to make it the best you can. Another concern of mine is that every potential developer is going to do a Kickstarter for every game. I'm happy as hell to see a return to cartridges, but I'd also like to see a return to the attitude of "we made this game and put it out there and hope that you'll buy it because it's good." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIO2 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) You're not. That is not what this machine is for. It will use it's own cartridge format. This isn't an all in one for old carts. This (below) is taken from the FAQ on the Retro VGS website and is why I suggested the universal Retron idea. I do understand that is not the developers goal for the system. Third party developers might take an interest though in this flexible platform. Perhaps third party developers can create HDL and cartridge adapters to play the games of other classic systems. Creating an Atari 2600 game on the Retro VGS cart doesn't make sense to me but having an adapter for Retro VGS to play original 2600 games and new homebrews (or better yet 7800 games) would make the VGS much more interesting to me. "Whats going on under the hood? (Steve Woita) Think of it as hardware that is reconfigurable by the cartridge. The RETRO VGS will have its own cool configurations (ways to make a game), and it can also be hardware-configured to be other old-school architectures that a lot of developers are used to developing for. Specifically, and at this current time, its an FPGA and ARM system. If a developer wants to make a Neo Geo game, they would include an HDL (Hardware Description Language) file that configures the FPGA to operate like a Neo Geo." Edited July 29, 2015 by SIO2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurritoBeans Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) The machine looks interesting, but I doubt I'll adopt it unless they pull out more exclusives. Software wise it has only one exclusive that I can't get elsewhere, and only one game isn't going to convince me. Having say 4 or 5 would be nice though, and some sort of "Killer App" that you can't get elsewhere to convince me to buy the system would probably make me like the look of it more. The whole concept of an FPGA is nice though. Being able to have one media (The retro VGS carts) that you can reconfigure in code to act as something else is a pretty cool idea. I really just don't think the games will justify the price, as I can get a "physical" copy by getting them at $5 on Steam and throwing them on a cheapie flash drive for the same effect. I'd like to see them make me take my words back, but right now it just isn't happening. I will follow it though, and if it looks promising I'll give it some thought Edited July 29, 2015 by BurritoBeans 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Another concern of mine is that every potential developer is going to do a Kickstarter for every game. I'm happy as hell to see a return to cartridges, but I'd also like to see a return to the attitude of "we made this game and put it out there and hope that you'll buy it because it's good." This in itself is kind of the issue since no one really has any idea how many units will be sold. I think you'd have to be extremely passionate and hopeful... and what if the KS fails? I'm not saying or speculating it will and honestly it'll probably make the goal, but what if? and then what? Can we expect 10,000 units to be sold initially and if that's really the case, if your game is lucky enough to get even a 25% adoption rate, you're looking at 2,500 games being sold. How about the lifetime? Will this be something that is planned to be offered for many years to come hardware availability-wise despite slow sales if that happens? So it has an FPGA and ARM processor... but I feel like there needs to be something specialized or custom to set it apart, something developers can look at and say "Let's see how hard we can push this thing or what it's really capable of..." the only problem with that is, we're all spoiled with current technology. Prime example would be the Ouya... I've had absolutely zero interest in that thing. Never played one but why would I want to? And it doesn't matter how good the hardware is... as Ballmer best said it... "Developers developers developers developers developers, developers!" lol Edited July 29, 2015 by Clint Thompson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I do not like the kickstarted method of marketing software. I prefer the old school method of flipping through a colorful catalog or magazine. Or more in line with the times, a webpage offering a complete product ready to roll. Less vaporware, less unknowns.. I wonder about this..let's say you're a VCS fan. And have a VCS. Will you buy this retrovgs to play VCS games released for retrovgs exclusively? Seems like a duplication of efforts here. Ok so we might not see VCS-retrovgs exclusive games. Or like neogeo, you have your original old console and a library of games. Now assuming someone devs a neogeo game, wouldn't it be better to market for the old original console instead of this? If not, why not? For how long will this system remain state of the art? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) There's 16 pages of rants already about this: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/ Edited July 29, 2015 by phoenixdownita 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIO2 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 ... Or like neogeo, you have your original old console and a library of games. Now assuming someone devs a neogeo game, wouldn't it be better to market for the old original console instead of this? If not, why not? For how long will this system remain state of the art? I agree. I think the author would do better making the cart for the original console. But, if there is an easy way to load the ROM or an original cart via adapter on RVGS then it expands the RVGS library and makes it more useful. This thing won't be state of the art for long if it even qualifies now. Neither is my 7800 but I love it still. We will just have to see if RVGS finds some love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 ...Perhaps a Retro VGS daughter board is in order? Daughterboard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 That thing sunk the fail boat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I agree. I think the author would do better making the cart for the original console. But, if there is an easy way to load the ROM or an original cart via adapter on RVGS then it expands the RVGS library and makes it more useful. This thing won't be state of the art for long if it even qualifies now. Neither is my 7800 but I love it still. We will just have to see if RVGS finds some love. The cartridge slot is "patent pending". See their FAQ for more details. I've asked if I'm allowed to make my own carts and converters, but they haven't replied to my e-mail yet. Edit: "soon-to-be-patented"... The (soon-to-be-patented) RETRO VGS cartridge interface supports many different configurations, including cartridges that temporarily reconfigure the FPGA inside the RETRO VGS console, enabling hardware optimization for kinds of games we haven’t yet even imagined. Edited July 30, 2015 by 5-11under Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 That thing sunk the fail boat! Maybe, but I would have probably bought one had they been much easier to purchase. Like, did anyone ever even really stock these things? My PC of the late 90s was definitely ready to rock it =) had a WinTV and FM card, a dedicated MPEG2 decoder card, a nice hefty 3DFX VooDoo 3000 card and still room for this . And Windows 98 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Maybe, but I would have probably bought one had they been much easier to purchase. Like, did anyone ever even really stock these things? My PC of the late 90s was definitely ready to rock it =) had a WinTV and FM card, a dedicated MPEG2 decoder card, a nice hefty 3DFX VooDoo 3000 card and still room for this . And Windows 98 I just remember them being sold via the internet or mail order. The packaging totally sucks. Makes it look like yet another me-too multimedia upgrade for your PC and there were TONS of them BITD that included a CD-ROM, SB card, etc. They should have ditched that generic/standard SoundBlaster look and kept with the 3DO styling, with it's font and artwork. They may have had a better box/package than what I showed above, but it probably wouldn't have mattered. Adding a game system to a game system seemed a bit redundant to most people at the time I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) They should have ditched that generic/standard SoundBlaster look and kept with the 3DO styling, with it's font and artwork. They may have had a better box/package than what I showed above, but it probably wouldn't have mattered. It was part of the "Blaster" marketing theme. Nothing generic about it. They had 3D Blaster, SoundBlaster, ModemBlaster, WaveBlaster, and maybe a few others I don't recall at the moment. These "generic" Blaster products enabled the PC to stay on the map when it came to gaming and multimedia. I would even argue it put the PC there. These delivered real non-native functionality to the PC. Over time they would become standards. My particular favorites were the SoundBlaster and WaveBlaster. Just before and around the Doom and Raptor era. No amount of marketing and package design effort would make the already lame 3DO succeed as an add-on. And by default development had a time limit imposed. All this was tied to the ISA bus, specific CD-ROM drives and Windows 3.1. Technology destined to be superseded. To carry this into the future would require too many things to remain stagnant. It was a perfect example of the DotCom era of trying things for the sake of trying things. Giving a blind eye toward anything realistic and enduring. And the whole shebang was a house of cards. Ready to fall whenever the PC farted out a change in infrastructure. Much like RetroVGS trying to appeal to classic gamers. There's just too much hassle and conditions and limitations when you shed light upon the advantages of the original consoles (INTV, VCS, CV). I wonder if we don't have another Ouya, or OnLive with this? Adding a game system to a game system seemed a bit redundant to most people at the time I'm sure. And for all of time. This style of upgrade has rarely been successful. Maybe the system conversion modules that let you play VCS on Colecovision or 32X on Genesis had some sales. But give the choice, people would rather go with the original console for which a game was written as opposed to getting a non-native console and a barrage of adapters. You still have to swap the adapters in and out. And flying in the coffin-corner is easier with native hardware. Even the Apple II's Arcade Board or Sprite Board system-within-a-system failed pretty hard. No one bought them. And the typical source of consternation was how much future utility would the add-in offer. And the, "Ohh I've had this computer long enough, I'm not gonna put more money into it" camp. Developers weren't interested and the installed base was non-existent aside from curious hackers. But one example of real success of a system-within-a-system was CP/M. Z-80 cards were huge in the Apple II sphere. Edited July 30, 2015 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I feel like this console will end up in the $159-$179 price range.... and it's so bizarre to me to see all these funky labels on Jaguar carts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) They just published 3D renderings of the back panel .... hilarious, 4 different video ports (HDMI, RGB, SVideo and composhit) ..... and support for power for external RF mod ..... it's sinking. Oh and 2 more USB A ports and 1 USB B .... likely there was no place left for USB3.0 or Firewire. I believe they also missed a phone line jack (in case someone wants to turn the FPGA into a modem for online playing you know). http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-16?do=findComment&comment=3289375 Edited July 31, 2015 by phoenixdownita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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