DiscoDr.Bones Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Hi, Pac Man is one of my favorite games of all time… lately I have been very interested in comparing the official various ports on home consoles/computers, and if there tends to be something distinct about a port, I try to collect a full copy of the game. Right now I’m looking at the 8-bit (the cart that I have is CXL4022) and when compared to my 5200 version, it… doesn’t feel right for reasons I can’t quite put my finger on. It felt slow and choppy I guess. I notice that Datasoft did cassette and disk versions, and trying the Datasoft ATR bridged the gap and included intermissions. I also notice that there is another cart release (RX8022). I did a search on here that resulted in me getting even more confused, as there never seemed to be absolute consensus. So my question is 3 part: Are the two Pac-Man carts the same in terms of the code contained within, and if not, is there any consensus on the differences? Is there any difference between the cassette and disk for the Datasoft release? I can’t seem to find any pricing data on the Datasoft versions. What about would I be looking at in terms of price to find them in reasonable condition? Thanks for the info in advance. --SilvahaloOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Westphal Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 If I remember correctly, the disk version has a better " wonka " sound, and has the character introductions. One of the two cart versions may also have the improved wonka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoDr.Bones Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hey Paul, I spent a bit more time playing the Datasoft releases (Cassette and Disk) and after a few games, I started noticing some of the control issues mentioned in this conversation: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/161982-pac-man/ I don’t know that I would call any of this game breaking, but it definitely takes it out of contention for collecting a physical copy, as I’m now looking at it as inferior to what I already have. If anyone knows, I would still be interested in what it is going for in the wild, especially since I can’t seem to get any pricing data here or on Ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 If you like Pac-Man, you should try the best Pac-Man available, Pac-Man Arcade (2012): http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=6571 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoDr.Bones Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hey, thanks Philsan, I actually spend most of my A8 Pac-Man time playing Pac-Man Arcade (and my 7800 Pac-Man time playing "Fast Random Maze Ms. Pacman" via Pac-Man Collection), what I was considering here were the releases from back in the day... I was surprised to learn of the Datasoft releases and was after some information on them. But after finding that control glitch I decided it wasn't worth any more of my time, unless someone knows a compelling reason otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Hey Paul, I spent a bit more time playing the Datasoft releases (Cassette and Disk) and after a few games, I started noticing some of the control issues mentioned in this conversation: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/161982-pac-man/ I don’t know that I would call any of this game breaking, but it definitely takes it out of contention for collecting a physical copy, as I’m now looking at it as inferior to what I already have. If anyone knows, I would still be interested in what it is going for in the wild, especially since I can’t seem to get any pricing data here or on Ebay. I just bought the Datasoft floppy version off ebay for $20 shipped. That's disk only. I dont know if that's a bad price but I wanted it so don't really care. I'm very curious to see if it has the control bug discussed in that other thread, or if Datasoft managed to fix it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoDr.Bones Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Excellent, I’m very interested in what you have to say about it, both in terms of what has already been discussed here and in terms of the ghost AI. I have spent a lot of time in the past couple of months playing the 8-bit Pac-Man games, and the more I played the Datasoft conversions… the more they felt off to me, like I was even seeing ghosts going up into the “safe zone” above their home location in chase mode and other violations of what I understand to be their AI logic. Could I be playing bad dumps? I feel like your “Pac-Man Arcade” nails it… the speed, AI, the graphics… my score and the experience when playing it with an Epyx 500XJ is very comparable to doing the same in MAME. I also greatly enjoy the 5200 original Atari release of Pac-Man, while it isn’t in the same league at “Pac-Man Arcade,” the speed and ghost AI are acceptable and enjoyable, even if not necessarily accurate. However, IMO, the ghost AT in both the Atari and Datasoft releases for the 8-bit feels drastically different, and aside from what has already been described here, I can’t figure out why. Any insight you might have, even public shaming of me if I am way off in my assessment, is appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I'll report back on what I learn about and I'll try not to shame you too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I received the disk yesterday and spent a little bit of time checking it out. The disk loaded fine and I was able to easily make a backup with my 810 Archiver drive. It amazes me how these 30+ year old disks still work after all this time. Here are my observations on game play.- Ghosts exhibit very few of the behaviors from the arcade game. They seem to behave exactly the same as the Atari 400/800 cart version. - don't follow the rule for not going up passages above and below the pen. - targeting behaviors seem quite different from arcade. - don't change direction when switching between chase and scatter modes - don't spend the correct amount of time in each mode - timing of when they leave the pen is different - speeds seem slower than arcade- I did observe the control glitch. There seems to be a bug that often prevents pacman from going right at start of certain levels. I found I can overcome it by holding the stick to the upper right. Pac will then move to the right when the action starts.- The wacka wacka sound is improved from cart version.- Intermissions are present and seem to be the same as in the 5200 version. conclusion: It's still a fun game and pretty good for a Pac-man game from the time period. I like that it has the intermissions and animation sequence on the menu screen. I was playing around with the 5200 version and I don't think the ghost targeting is correct either, but it does seem to correct most of the deficiencies of the 400/800 version. They don't go up the passages above the pen and I was able to sit there without ever getting killed as long as the ghosts were in a certain region of the screen. They would go into a pattern and never run into me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Westphal Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Pac-man arcade is sweet. There is also Ms. Pac-Man Enhanced....great game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I figured out why the control glitch happens in the Datasoft version. Here's a modified ATR which should work ok now. I'm going to use a sector editor to update my backup floppy. I'll keep the original floppy as-is. PacmanDatasoftFixed.atr 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoDr.Bones Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 Awesome! This makes me wonder why Datasoft kept the ghost AI similar to the 400/800 version when, with the space on the disk, they could have had ghost AI comparable to the 5200 version... which when coupled with the digital joystick, would have been the ultimate home Pac-Man conversion for an Atari system back in its day. Quite the missed opportunity it seems... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I figured out why the control glitch happens in the Datasoft version. What was the problem? If it's not too difficult, this Datasoft version with added throttle would be a nice candidate for the fix as well. Hold down the button for a little speed boost: Pac-Man (Throttle).xex 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 What was the problem? If it's not too difficult, this Datasoft version with added throttle would be a nice candidate for the fix as well. Hold down the button for a little speed boost: Pac-Man (Throttle).xex The game has a memory location where the joystick command is saved and another where the current direction being travelled is saved. But it only updates the joystick command if it differs from the previous command. And it will only change his direction if the command is updated. The bug occurs if the last commanded direction before a screen ends is different from his initial direction (left) at the start of the next screen. It happens because the joystick command is not initialized at the start of the screen so remembers your last command. If that last command happens to be right, it won't accept the command to go right and Pac will just keep going left. If you press some other direction to change the command, like up, it will then let you go right. To fix the problem I initialize the command to left so it matches Pac's initial direction. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Awesome! This makes me wonder why Datasoft kept the ghost AI similar to the 400/800 version when, with the space on the disk, they could have had ghost AI comparable to the 5200 version... which when coupled with the digital joystick, would have been the ultimate home Pac-Man conversion for an Atari system back in its day. Quite the missed opportunity it seems... Yes, it could have been much better. It seems as if they took the 400/800 version and added to it. What's strange is that it appears that they copied the 5200 intermission, but they failed to utilize it's better AI. Maybe they didn't realize the AI was different between the two versions. Also, it would have been relatively easy to just convert the 5200 version to run on the 400/800 if they had access to the source code. I'm very curious how much code, if any, was provided to Datasoft by Atari. If any of the Atari podcasters are reading this, I hope they will consider interviewing some former Datasoft employee's at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 um the pac man at the arcade we all dropped quarters in had the joystick to the right problem as well... we used to wait till the last fraction of a second and time slamming that joystick to the right to get it to go to the right at the start without have to do the left right jiggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 That's funny. So Atari must have thought replicating the control bug was more important than the AI. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Yeah it took a year and a month before the proms arrived that fixed that and a couple other glitches on the actual arcade game had.... why someone would replicate such bugs? maybe they worked from the older code and no provided them with the latest code? Maybe old internals laying about got shipped to be duplicated and no one thought hey lets replace the proms before we send it to em... It was Friday and the beer was going to go flat.... had to rush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 It was Friday and the beer was going to go flat.... had to rush I wouldn't be surprised at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 So if the 5200 pacman AI is better could one of our resident 5200 conversion experts do a conversion for us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) I figured out why the control glitch happens in the Datasoft version. Here's a modified ATR which should work ok now. I'm going to use a sector editor to update my backup floppy. I'll keep the original floppy as-is. PacmanDatasoftFixed.atr Funny thing that glitch.... the Arcade machine at the local diner had that same glitch back in the 80's... I always held it to the left and in a split second of the start of action banged it to the right.... we played for money back then.... so are we keeping to the arcade or improving on it? Thanks for confirming what I have said time and time again that the datasoft version had the intermissions.. it wasn't just the cassette but the disk as well! Can you talk with Atarimania about comparing/preserving your disk. Edited October 30, 2016 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Funny thing that glitch.... the Arcade machine at the local diner had that same glitch back in the 80's... I always held it to the left and in a split second of the start of action banged it to the right.... we played for money back then.... so are we keeping to the arcade or improving on it? Thanks for confirming what I have said time and time again that the datasoft version had the intermissions.. it wasn't just the cassette but the disk as well! Can you talk with Atarimania about comparing/preserving your disk. If they need a copy of the original disk I'd be happy to make one for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultrasteve Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I have the original Datasoft cassette version. I've not tried it yet, so no idea if it works or not, but if anyone here has any interest in me running it to see if it exhibits the same control problems etc. I'm happy to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultrasteve Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 I loaded up my UK PAL version of the Datasoft Premier Arcades release tonight, and can confirm it has both the control bug, and interludes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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