+KaeruYojimbo Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I was thinking about Chase the Chuckwagon the other day. When I started collecting in the 90s, it was the holy grail game. There was an online list of people who owned it. Serious collectors payed over one hundred dollars for it. Currently, it has a rating of 8 on the AtariAge rarity guide, which in theory means I own 2 games which are more rare and several that are about as rare. No one really talks about it anymore. There's one listed on eBay for $69.95 or best offer. I guess Air Raid is the current the holy grail. Were there any in between that I missed? Will something one day knock it off its perch? Red Sea Crossing and The Extra-Terrestrials seem to be too rare. There just aren't any out there so they've fallen off the radar. Any thoughts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombstone Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I think as time has revealed more and more the true rarity of games the scale has adjusted accordingly. It by no means has stopped adjusting. A few games are known in terms of their very limited quantity as the programmers have been contacted and interviewed and have given a fairly reliable sense of the number of games that were produced. Others remain a mystery but likely the developers will be discovered and more info gained as time goes by. Ebay, like it or hate it, has revealed a truer rarity of many games, including Chuckwagon. There are members here who can answer this better than I can, but this is my two cents. I am convinced there are folks here who have stuff that only a very select few even know about, which is fine. It only makes collecting for the 2600 more fun. Someone here likely has a lone copy of something like Water Raid by Menavision, a Xante copy of E.T., or Video Death by Commavid. Hell, someone here may even have the real Holy Grail tucked away somewhere. At any rate, Air Raid seems to be the Big Sexy right now in terms of overall popularity but I am not convinced it is THE Holy Grail. I would like to see Eli's Ladder in its entirety (meaning overlay, charts, etc.) go on eBay and see how it would fare compared to a CIB Air Raid. And of course those you mentioned that are limited to one or two known copies would be interesting auctions as well. Nice post 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philflound Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I have to agree with the whole Ebay thing bringing light to the essence of what rare is. I think the rare numbers that are in existence may not be accurate. Unless there is something to define what a 9 or 10 is, like actually gauge how many copies come up for sale each year in say Ebay, Amazon, Game Gavel, and even the conventions, then rarity may be inaccurate. Documented sales will also help, along with collectors coming forth with the knowledge of what they own. There are some variations of boxed games that are next to impossible to find, and many times you may see 1 copy of that particular variation in 10 years. So where a game may be a holy grail, so may a specific variation. That is why I work on my site. In fact I'm working diligently on getting everything updated so I can continue to pursue acquiring scans of variations I never knew existed. I've found many in the past week that no one has come forth with for myself or Atarimania, and when I get my list done hopefully by the end of the week, I'll post exactly the scans I'm searching for. So if anyone would like to take on the task of trying to document sales (I think someone was doing this, but stopped a few years ago), then maybe we can get a better grasp on rarity numbers. Phil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I remember when CTCW was "holy grail" status and THE game to obtain... I think a big part of it was the background story. "Never available in stores" and "mail order only" When Atari collecting was new and basically every known fact wasn't plastered all over the internet as it is now this was the kind of hype that made games desirable to collectors. I remember Kool Aid man also having a little bit of hype since it was also a mail order game (although available in stores later on, I bought mine from a Grocery store Applebaums) Now that time has passed, the internet is in everyone's possession and most everyone has raided their closets to put their old Atari stuff on Ebay...the truth has come out that it is not a grail and more of a semi rare to rare game. The internet killed the hobby shop... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I remember going to a game shop sometime around 2000 and they had Chase The Chuckwagon for $300. Good thing I waited, ha.Other Holy Grails at the time included Quadrun, Crazy Climber, Gravitar (silver label), Swordquest Waterworld, Magicard, and Video Life, which no one seems to discuss anymore (despite the fact that Video Life, being available BITD only to owners of the already insanely rare Magicard, is probably quantifiably more rare than Air Raid, at least loose). Games like Motorodeo, Ikari Warriors, and Xenophobe were once in forgetaboutit territory as well, before large stashes were located in South America.It is interesting that a lot of these games have come down quite a bit in price, while the floor for commons/uncommons has crept up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Other Holy Grails at the time included Quadrun, Crazy Climber, Gravitar (silver label), Swordquest Waterworld, Magicard, and Video Life, which no one seems to discuss anymore (despite the fact that Video Life, being available BITD only to owners of the already insanely rare Magicard ALL Mail order games 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KaeruYojimbo Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 I think the "legend" of Chase the Chuckwagon definitely contributed to its grail status. Air Raid has a little of that going for it too. The only game released by a company the essentially nothing was known about until very recently. Plus the discovery of a boxed copy a couple of years ago and the fact that whenever one does show up for sale, even the non-video game media picks up the story. That helps make it sexier than rarer games like Birthday Mania and Video Life (the fact that, unlike those two, it's an actual game, and a pretty notoriously bad one to boot, doesn't hurt either). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintagegamecrazy Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Out of curiousity how many copies each of Motorodeo, Ikari Warriors and Xenophone did they find. These games seem to be everywhere now and back then they costed hundreds. I just picked up a brand new Motorodeo for $20 at a game store and that seems expensive compared to other prices I've seen now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Birthday Mania is my kinda holy grail. Chase is still a holy grail cib, for example Video Jogger/Reflex are also holy grails, cib. Edited October 15, 2015 by high voltage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Chase the Chuck Wagon is kind of synonomous with Tooth Protectors and Quadrun. All mail order games that are rare as crap. The real grails are stuff like Coke Wins or yes, Air Raid, which in fact rolls slowly on my CRT. I saw an episode of Antique Road Show long ago when someone brought an Atari and a bunch of old games. One of them was Quadrun. They valued the Atari at $100 and Quadrun at $1000... Similar things have happened with NES. Tengen Tetris was the grail to own for the longest time. I still remember walking into Game X Change one fateful day in 2004 and buying it outright for $40. Only recently has it's value started to climb above that level, whereas others have gone from $5 to triple digits easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxpressed Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Out of curiousity how many copies each of Motorodeo, Ikari Warriors and Xenophone did they find. These games seem to be everywhere now and back then they costed hundreds. I just picked up a brand new Motorodeo for $20 at a game store and that seems expensive compared to other prices I've seen now. I was thinking about Motorodeo and Ikari Warriors too. There's a long thread here on AA where you can read about the fall of these two once rares in real time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Out of curiousity how many copies each of Motorodeo, Ikari Warriors and Xenophone did they find. These games seem to be everywhere now and back then they costed hundreds. I just picked up a brand new Motorodeo for $20 at a game store and that seems expensive compared to other prices I've seen now. Thousands and Thousands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 The rarity and value in holy grails depends completely on the popularity of the title in the collecting market. Value to rarity is a small factor. People like T handles and smelly garbage carts. Just feel lucky that it is a popular retro market. Other more rare systems rarity of carts etc. prices are hardly a drop in the bucket compared to even an r7-8 2600 game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KaeruYojimbo Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Chase the Chuck Wagon is kind of synonomous with Tooth Protectors and Quadrun. All mail order games that are rare as crap. The real grails are stuff like Coke Wins or yes, Air Raid, which in fact rolls slowly on my CRT. I saw an episode of Antique Road Show long ago when someone brought an Atari and a bunch of old games. One of them was Quadrun. They valued the Atari at $100 and Quadrun at $1000... Similar things have happened with NES. Tengen Tetris was the grail to own for the longest time. I still remember walking into Game X Change one fateful day in 2004 and buying it outright for $40. Only recently has it's value started to climb above that level, whereas others have gone from $5 to triple digits easy. I remember seeing an episode of Antiques Roadshow where they did a little side piece on video games becoming collectible. No one brought anything in, but it was when the game market was just kind of becoming a thing. I think the guy said Pac-Man was worth 10 dollars. I have a Tengen Tetris I found at a thrift store. I knew it was more rare than the Nintendo version, but I've never followed the NES scene so I had no idea it was ever considered a grail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I remember seeing an episode of Antiques Roadshow where they did a little side piece on video games becoming collectible. No one brought anything in, but it was when the game market was just kind of becoming a thing. I think the guy said Pac-Man was worth 10 dollars. I have a Tengen Tetris I found at a thrift store. I knew it was more rare than the Nintendo version, but I've never followed the NES scene so I had no idea it was ever considered a grail. Read up on the history of Tengen Tetris. One of the most epic court battles in the history of video gaming. Nintendo won FTR. Also the Black Tengen and Gray Licensed versions of both Tetris and Ms Pacman are completely different games. Some game stores, especially thrift type stores, will not know the difference between the variants. Tengen Tetris is much rarer than Nintendo Tetris. Namco Ms Pacman is moderately rarer than Tengen Ms Pacman. IMO Tengen Tetris is better for casual players (there's even a 2-player coop mode) while Nintendo Tetris is better for hardcore players. Tengen Ms Pacman is the better game overall, and this superior version got ported to SNES and Genesis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KaeruYojimbo Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I read a little of the Tetris story years ago. Essentially a lot of confusion over who had what rights to it in the U.S. If i'm remembering right, Atari got the arcade rights, Nintendo got the console rights and someone else got the home computer rights, and the Russians may or may not have sold the same rights to more than one company. Atari produced a home version of their arcade game on their Tengen label, which made Nintendo double mad because a) Nintendo had the console rights and was selling their own version of the game and b) Tengen was manufacturing their own NES carts and violating Nintendo's lockout patent (which Atari/Tengen thought violated antitrust laws). I've honestly never really played the Nintendo version, but it seems like that's the preferred version for tournaments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I've honestly never really played the Nintendo version, but it seems like that's the preferred version for tournaments. I've owned both for the longest but have spent far more hours over the years playing the Tengen variant. Probably my #2 most played NES game after Mario + Duck Hunt combo cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philflound Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Always about supply and demand. Supply jumped up for those two titles with Venezuela. I wouldn't be surprised if other titles turn up in massive quantity as years go by. Warehouse finds are common. I remember several years ago Wacky Packs had several cases of one or two of the series show up. Boxes went down a bit, but eventually the supply got absorbed into the market. When supply gets absorbed, you may see prices go back up. Until then, many years will have to go by. I still sell many of my O Shea sealed titles for like $6 or $7. Just no real demand for RS BB, RS FB, Venture (Atari)... plus many 7800 titles. I like how the topic shifted to NES Tetris. Phil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totallyterrificpants Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I remember seeing an episode of Antiques Roadshow where they did a little side piece on video games becoming collectible. No one brought anything in, but it was when the game market was just kind of becoming a thing. I think the guy said Pac-Man was worth 10 dollars. I have a Tengen Tetris I found at a thrift store. I knew it was more rare than the Nintendo version, but I've never followed the NES scene so I had no idea it was ever considered a grail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyUpT0g2KAE Chuckwagon is easy to get if you are willing to pay and go online for it. I got a copy a few years back for $80. To me the game is a grail if you get the box. I'm only collecting CIB games and so some games go from being common to uncommon, uncommon to kinda rare etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyUpT0g2KAE Chuckwagon is easy to get if you are willing to pay and go online for it. I got a copy a few years back for $80. To me the game is a grail if you get the box. I'm only collecting CIB games and so some games go from being common to uncommon, uncommon to kinda rare etc. I remember that episode well, but it was a long, long time ago before I ever got serious into collecting Nintendo games, much less Atari. Part of the segment appears to be clipped. The Atari itself was valued at $100 so it's very likely the whole lot was over-appraised. I'm not sure what a six switch Atari sold for in the early 00s but true holy grail stuff like Air Raid and Red Sea Crossing wasn't even discovered yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Weis Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I'm not sure what a six switch Atari sold for in the early 00s but true holy grail stuff like Air Raid and Red Sea Crossing wasn't even discovered yet. we found out the name of it in 1999 when Ben (pitfall harry) researched it. there was even a loose one that was auctioned off on ebay in 1999 for 550.00 it's been around for a long time. interested what a boxed Karate by Ultravision will go for when/IF one is ever found. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 interested what a boxed Karate by Ultravision will go for when/IF one is ever found. Rick I wonder if it even exists honestly. Since Ultravision was a division of K-Tel and they pretty much only did mail order games, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was just mailed in a generic envelope or plain box/etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Chase the Chuck Wagon is kind of synonomous with Tooth Protectors and Quadrun. All mail order games that are rare as crap. The real grails are stuff like Coke Wins or yes, Air Raid, which in fact rolls slowly on my CRT. I saw an episode of Antique Road Show long ago when someone brought an Atari and a bunch of old games. One of them was Quadrun. They valued the Atari at $100 and Quadrun at $1000... Similar things have happened with NES. Tengen Tetris was the grail to own for the longest time. I still remember walking into Game X Change one fateful day in 2004 and buying it outright for $40. Only recently has it's value started to climb above that level, whereas others have gone from $5 to triple digits easy. Tengen [Atari Games!] Tetris for the NES has been going up in the past year. However, it doesn't approach the value it held back when Atari Games lost their lawsuit with Nintendo and was ordered to recall and destroy all of them. That's when people started checking them out of Blockbuster and paying the $50 lost fee because not only was the game that good but also because the value shot up to $350 back then. I hope someone finishes that port - was it Kenfused? - of Tengen Tetris to the 7800 and then adds the POKEY audio from the arcade original. That would be pimp! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Read up on the history of Tengen Tetris. One of the most epic court battles in the history of video gaming. Nintendo won FTR. Also the Black Tengen and Gray Licensed versions of both Tetris and Ms Pacman are completely different games. Some game stores, especially thrift type stores, will not know the difference between the variants. Tengen Tetris is much rarer than Nintendo Tetris. Namco Ms Pacman is moderately rarer than Tengen Ms Pacman. IMO Tengen Tetris is better for casual players (there's even a 2-player coop mode) while Nintendo Tetris is better for hardcore players. Tengen Ms Pacman is the better game overall, and this superior version got ported to SNES and Genesis. Let's clarify this a bit. The black Tengen cartridges - and they are black because they are referencing the color of Atari 2600 cartridges due to Tengen being Atari Games and all - are the un-licensed cartridges whereas the gray standard carts [for Gauntlet and Ms. Pac-Man] were officially licensed. Nintendo eff'ed over Atari Games over their allotment of cartridges and strictly maintained the agreement to annual title limits while allowing Konami to skate the rules by claiming their Ultra sub-brand was a separate company and thus had a separate allotment is the main reason why Atari Games went rogue. They also hated Nintendo too for being upstarts who had no right to dominate the industry Atari created. Remember, Atari Games always maintained that they were the Real Atari. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Let's clarify this a bit. The black Tengen cartridges - and they are black because they are referencing the color of Atari 2600 cartridges due to Tengen being Atari Games and all - are the un-licensed cartridges whereas the gray standard carts [for Gauntlet and Ms. Pac-Man] were officially licensed. Black is cool. Black is awesome. Color of the night. Famicom was a rainbow. Everything else by Nintendo was boring-assed gray. Name one non-Nintendo system that used a color other than black for it's 1st party carts. PC-Engine doesn't count. Those were white cards... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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