Happy birthday Amiga

[Guest]

Chr**t on a bike fella - you need to get out more!

and while you're at it...try learning to read replies properly instead of selectively cut n paste hatchet jobs constructing your contrived misquoted replies.

 

you're one of those people who is impossible to reason with, and bearing that in mind. i'll leave you to go shout at the pigeons.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Guest

[+wood_jl]

Chr**t on a bike fella - you need to get out more!

I'm not sure what "Chr**t" is supposed to mean, nor what a bike has to do with it, but I do get out enough. Thanks so much for your concern.

 

and while you're at it...try learning to read replies properly

I do read replies properly. Once again, thanks for your concern.

 

 

instead of selectively cut n paste hatchet jobs constructing your contrived misquoted replies.

Since you clearly don't get it, I'll explain the obvious to you: I reply *AT EACH PART* of what I am replying to. I make it quite relevant *exactly what* I am replying to, by posting exactly what I am replying to, and then replying directly below it. I'm so sorry that doesn't make sense to you. Perhaps you should get out more.

 

you're one of those people who is impossible to reason with,

Actually, you're one of those people who *are* (rather than "is", since 'people' is a plurality) impossible to debate with, because you can't deal with people who disagree with you. That's why you choked on this one, and why you didn't address anything I said, but left this rather pathetic non-specific reply. See, what you call "cut and paste," I call addressing and/or refuting each of your attempted points. I guess that's too much, eh? That's ok. Move along.

 

and bearing that in mind. i'll leave you to go shout at the pigeons.

I don't know what that's supposed to mean, but that seems to be your style. Thanks for the laughs!

 

edit: I forgot to address the accusation of "misquoting." What I quoted was EXACTLY YOUR VERY ASCII THAT YOU TYPED. If you disagree, please provide a counterexample to what I just said. Good day!

[baz67]

Wowser,

1-2 merchants on here getting all hot around the SIO port over some dumbass Amiga birthday celebration, huh?

For what it's worth, we all love our nostalgic trips down silicon memory lane and depending upon what machine did 'it' for us, back in the day, god, we defend their honours like some medieval knight and his bit of handmaiden skeg-piece.

I can see that we all love our Atari Classics - ie. the 8bit generation - it's what unites us so let's embrace that fact.

As for the other crap - I agree that the majority of Amoeba users in my experience were indeed ex-64 upgraders. The Amoeba doesn't look or feel anything like an Atari 800/400/800/600XL or 65/130XE. It doesn't really resemble a 64 either - only the Commodore label - which is what someone else on here has already pointed out - makes it the natural successor to the 64 for those users wanting to remain loyal to the brand.

I had a 520 STFM and the only thing I was impressed by was its ability to produce some semi-serious DTP stuff - my 'poor man's Private Eye' was regularly being output on an ST/SMM804 in the late 80s and I was chuffed with it. Others enjoyed the cheap MIDI possibilities and to be brutally honest, IMHO, the games were... disappointing. The Amoeba won in that department hands down. Its demos, graphic and sound capabilities were superior, but oddly enough, when you wanted to do something semi-serious on the heap, ie. I bought one to try out its DTP offerings, the damn thing would system GURU so often, if you didn't save your work every 2-3 minutes, you were gonna get seriously mad with the shitpile.

So, I look back with a mixture of feelings when it comes to the 16bit generation - the computers were a tad bit disappointing for all their supposed 'improved power/architecture' and as for the games consoles of the time... I never got involved but I heard Atari's offerings just didn't get marketed/priced right and the company made some terrible mistakes in those areas.

For me, yeah, with me rose tinted specs firmly in place, you cannot beat a sesh on DROPZONE, CHOPLIFTER, BOUNTY BOB or M.U.L.E. on the good old 8bit.

The rest were also rans - let's praise the ORIGINAL and the BEST ATARI systems - long live our beloved first loves - our Atari 8bit systems.

All the best,

BAZ67

[FifthPlayer]

It's really kind of sad that an innocent thread intended to note a significant anniversary in computing history has been crapped all over, and turned into a flame war.

 

Good work, guys.

[Bryan]

Here's a friendly reminder of what *really* killed Atari....

 

Yeah, how did Atari become the most un-cool video game company in the world? Boggles the mind.

[UNIXcoffee928]

It's really kind of sad that an innocent thread intended to note a significant anniversary in computing history has been crapped all over, and turned into a flame war.

 

Good work, guys.

I think that most users are too busy, rolling their eyes, than to even reply, after the majority of posts in this thread. Basically, the purpose this thread serves, at the present, is to be a "relevance metric", with regard to posts, by these users, on other, future, topics.

 

"You're only young once, but you can be immature forever", ha!

 

= )

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZW3F9u33Cs

[+wood_jl]

It's really kind of sad that an innocent thread intended to note a significant anniversary in computing history has been crapped all over, and turned into a flame war.

 

Good work, guys.

 

Yeah, "good work" for you, too, in missing the entire point. The facts are that, (1) when I come to an Atari 8-bit-specific forum, I shouldn't have to read "Happy Birthday Amiga" threads, to begin with. Secondly, I shouldn't have to (2) read "I hate the ST" whiner crap. When I read the Atari8 forum, I should be reading about Atari8 computers, not Amigas or ST-shitting. If you want to post about Amigas, there is a specific forum for that. If you want to shit on the ST, go to the ST forum and shit on it there. Are you going to argue with that? It's very simple.

 

I take a less-emotional view on this, than do you. I don't consider it "sad." I consider it "inappropriate", for the reasons I just stated in the above paragraph. This is really small potatoes. Sick babies, abused animals, and Cecil the lion are "sad." You have my sympathy for becoming so emotional over such a small, non-issue.

 

edit: As well, I'm simply not going to let such mistruths stand, such as the lie that "the 520ST did not save Atari." Anybody with 2 brain cells knows that the only reason Atari Corp. didn't go tits-up in 1985 was because of strong sales of the Atari 520ST. If some yokel comes in here and denies that (which is, in fact, what happened) then there's no way I'm NOT going to counter that inaccurate bullshit. If countering someone with the facts makes you "sad," then perhaps a seratonin reuptake inhibitor can offer some relief.

[Guest]

 

Yeah, "good work" for you, too, in missing the entire point. The facts are that, (1) when I come to an Atari 8-bit-specific forum, I shouldn't have to read "Happy Birthday Amiga" threads, to begin with. Secondly, I shouldn't have to (2) read "I hate the ST" whiner crap. When I read the Atari8 forum, I should be reading about Atari8 computers, not Amigas or ST-shitting. If you want to post about Amigas, there is a specific forum for that. If you want to shit on the ST, go to the ST forum and shit on it there. Are you going to argue with that? It's very simple.

 

 

As well, I'm simply not going to let such mistruths stand, such as the lie that "the 520ST did not save Atari." Anybody with 2 brain cells knows that the only reason Atari Corp. didn't go tits-up in 1985 was because of strong sales of the Atari 520ST. If some yokel comes in here and denies that (which is, in fact, what happened) then there's no way I'm NOT going to counter that inaccurate bullshit. If countering someone with the facts makes you "sad," then perhaps a seratonin reuptake inhibitor can offer some relief.

 

1] forums and even specific conversations/threads often divert in all directions - that's what conversations are. say what you like - but you are not going to impose constraint on free-flowing thought - or would YOU be persecuting people that "walk on the cracks in the pavement" too?

2] does the site have moderators? if it does, and these people would've surely "moderated" any serious transgressors by now...i don't understand why it bothers you so much that something could "be in the wrong section" - don't like it? ignore it

3] mistruths [sic] ? nah...your "truths" are no more/less accurate than anyone else's - they're all subjective...you may think the ST saved atari....others don't agree - all are "truths" to the person that believes it

4] one thing worth considering - atari skirted and flirted with bankruptcy half a dozen times in 15 years....going out of business on more than one occasion - before finally dying (for good?). the fact is the ST did NOT save anything...all it did is forestall the inevitable, much like the XL, XEGs and other "innovations" before it. if you care to look at Atari's actual business at the time of the ST - you'll see that atari had loans that far exceeded its assets, and eventually, even the most patient of bank managers "call in the ir loans"

5] as for the machine itself....it doesn't matter that YOU think it was Jesus Christ Made Semi-conductor, the fact is lots of long-time atari buyers/fans didn't like the ST - and their opinion is NO LESS VALID than yours

 

have a good weekend, and leave those pigeons alone :-)

Edited July 31, 2015 by Guest

[FifthPlayer]

If you want to post about Amigas, there is a specific forum for that.

 

I was one of the people who asked Albert for the forums specific to Amigas and Commodore 8-bit machines, so I know they are there.

 

The "Happy Birthday" thread in this forum was intended, I think, for those of us A8 owners who migrated to the Amiga back in the day due to their common design heritage, which was more important to us than the logo on the outside of the machine.

 

There's nothing wrong with addressing that subset of the A8 community from a post in the A8 forum. We can tolerate a little deviation from the rules here and there - one Amiga post amongst hundreds isn't hard to skip.

 

And 30 years on, the system-bashing is just plain silly. From today's perspective, all these systems are fascinating. I have space to own only one classic system in actual hardware (130XE) but I'd love to own an ST of some sort now.

[baz67]

Personally speaking,

and at the end of the day that's what it's down to - our own OPINIONS...

the Atari classic is worthy of much adoration... it truly was revolutionary and no wonder so many of us hark back to the good old days and still DAILY use our machines for a blast on this or that. I wouldn't like to say exactly what total the software library stands at... several thousand titles at the least, so there's something there for everyone and the durability, expandability and longevity of the machine stands up to anyone's scrutiny. It sits pride of place in my retro cave, my 130XE, and it easily beats the pants off, entertainment wise, my Beeb, ZX81, Spectrum, Amiga, PC and... Oric (look that one up!)

 

However, going back to the ST and Atari history, again IMHO, the ST just sat in and held the fort - for perhaps 2-3 years at best - until papa PC came along and completely swamped, trampled and homogenised the whole sodding market... game over to everyone else save Apple,

I used to keep my ST in the garage... with the spiders, slugs and sprouts.

I sold it recently to some bloke for a tenner (in its original packaging with a diskbox of software).

Regrettably, it was unloved and other than producing some long forgotten magazine, it's use was transient.

I think there's room on here to say WHY we prefer a certain computer system and constructively criticise another without it becoming 'crapping' or 'flamewar'.

It certainly adds some colour to the forum so vive le difference.

[Guest]

"what's that alcohol smell then?"

"embalming fluid"

"barmy fluid? - i'll have some of that then!"

[+wood_jl]

2] does the site have moderators? if it does, and these people would've surely "moderated" any serious transgressors by now...i don't understand why it bothers you so much that something could "be in the wrong section" - don't like it? ignore it

**OR**, flag is as inappropriate for being in the Atari 8-bit section, which it is. "Happy Birthday Amiga" belongs in the dedicated Amiga sub-forum. Only a fucking idiot would argue otherwise. Yet such a person may take such a stance....

 

3] mistruths [sic] ? nah...your "truths" are no more/less accurate than anyone else's - they're all subjective...you may think the ST saved atari....others don't agree - all are "truths" to the person that believes it

Strong 520ST sales saved the newly-formed Atari Corporation. Once again, most people who were alive and coherent at the time know this. Again, this will be chronicled in the upcoming book "Atari Corp" Business is War." You can argue with the authors then, rather than me. The Atari 520ST/1040ST were great successes for the Atari Corporation, period. Just because YOU didn't like them (and can't admit that you are w....w....wrrrr.....WRONG (Fonzie reference, there)) doesn't change that fact. Read about it in upcoming book that knows much more than you do.

 

4] one thing worth considering - atari skirted and flirted with bankruptcy half a dozen times in 15 years....going out of business on more than one occasion - before finally dying (for good?).

Totally irrelevant. Please name and enumerate these "half a dozen times," since you seem to feel you're a historian. Which six times are you talking about? But what's more, is that it's irrelevant to my point. I'm talking about the time period when the newly-launched 520ST literally saved Atari Corporation. After that, Atari *never* filed for bankruptcy. They reverse-mergered into JTS. They didn't file for bankruptcy. Get it right, if you're going to pretend to be able to.

 

the fact is the ST did NOT save anything...all it did is forestall the inevitable

That is NOT FACT. That is, ahem, "Armchair Quarterbacking With 30 Years of Hindsight." It's a tactic that children - or adults intellectually less-enabled than children - frequently engage in, in these sorts of discussions. In the first place, strong 520ST sales saved the Atari Corporation from bankruptcy. That's just a fact that happened, and one that history has recorded.

In THE SECOND PLACE, what "is inevitable" IS NOT apparent at any given moment of time. So "forestall the inevitable" is a completely-full-of-shit reference, for the time period of concern. Did you eat well, exercise, and take care of yourself, today? WHY? You're going to die anyway. Perhaps you saved yourself from inevitable death today, but you're going to die anyway. Therefore, should I laugh at your feeble attempts when I know you are going to die of cancer, anyway? "You're just delaying the inevitable."

Well, it's not "the inevitable." It's history unfolding as it happens, with surprising ups and downs along the way. Oh yeah, you're clairvoyant. That's why you're so rich....HA HA HA!!!!!

 

much like the XL, XEGs and other "innovations" before it.

What the fuck are you talking about? The XL did some good (at least by the time 800XL rolled around), but only a complete idiot would even *suggest* that the XEGS had *anything* to do with "saving" the Atari computers. Everybody with a brain knows the XEGS was too-little-too-late and was just a nice gift for us collectors, nothingmore.

 

 

if you care to look at Atari's actual business at the time of the ST - you'll see that atari had loans that far exceeded its assets, and eventually, even the most patient of bank managers "call in the ir loans"

I see that the original 520ST and shortly-thereafter, the original 1040ST kicked-ass in the marketplace, and gained Atari Corp some successs. The later machines, much less, period. But that's all I was claiming, the original machines' success. Duh!

 

 

5] as for the machine itself....it doesn't matter that YOU think it was Jesus Christ Made Semi-conductor,

According to you, "I think" (whatever that means) it was "Jesus Christ Made Semi-conductor?" HA HA HA!!! Whatever, buddy!!! Slow down on that drinking and those blunts. You're bringing Jesus Christ into this? I'll just laugh at you for what you are......ridiculous! HEH! Tell me another!

 

 

the fact is lots of long-time atari buyers/fans didn't like the ST - and their opinion is NO LESS VALID than yours

As well, the fact is lots of long-time Atari buyers/fans DID like the *original* Atari ST, and their opinion is just as valid as mine. Period.

 

have a good weekend, and leave those pigeons alone :-)

There's that weird pigeon fetish of yours, again. Please explain???

 

 

I was one of the people who asked Albert for the forums specific to Amigas and Commodore 8-bit machines, so I know they are there.

All the more curious, then, why you didn't post your "Happy Birthday" thread there, in the more-appropriate place, to begin with, then.

 

The "Happy Birthday" thread in this forum was intended, I think, for those of us A8 owners who migrated to the Amiga back in the day due to their common design heritage, which was more important to us than the logo on the outside of the machine.

Fine, but when I fire up my Amiga (which I do own), I don't hear SIO beeps. It doesn't run the same software. I can't really tell (upon using it) that it's any more (nor any less) related to my Atari8 than is a Sony Playstation, or anything else.

Having observed that, why not then (in all fairness) start......

 

Happy Birthday Atari ST thread - in the Atari8 forum - for all those who went from A8 to ST????

 

Happy Birthday IBM PC thread - in the Atari8 forum - for all those who went from A8 to PC??????

 

Happy Birthday Macintosh thread - in the Atari8 forum - for all those who went from A8 to Macintosh????

 

Happy Birthday Commodore 64 thread (some made a lateral transition) - in the Atari8 forum - for all those who went from A8 to C64?

 

Happy Birthday Kaypro II thread - in the Atari8 forum - for all those who went from A8 to Kaypro II?????

 

I think I've made my point. Let's now move on. Let's use the appropriate sub-forums to advocate for whatever platform one wishes to advocate for. There' quite-simply no valid counter-argument to that common sense, which was my original point, to begin with.

 

There's nothing wrong with addressing that subset of the A8 community from a post in the A8 forum. We can tolerate a little deviation from the rules here and there - one Amiga post amongst hundreds isn't hard to skip.

Sure we can, but we can also put Amiga advocacy in the Amiga forum, ST-bashing in the ST Forum, because they are there *specifically* for that purpose. Is there actually an a counter-argument to that truth??

 

And 30 years on, the system-bashing is just plain silly. From today's perspective, all these systems are fascinating. I have space to own only one classic system in actual hardware (130XE) but I'd love to own an ST of some sort now.

Who is advocating system-bashing, other than brenski shitting on the ST? How about we just advocate for each system in the God-Given (or Albert-Given) appropriate section? So much to ask?????

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

Close this discussion of dick, I broke !

[Guest]

Who is advocating system-bashing, other than brenski shitting on the ST? How about we just advocate for each system in the God-Given (or Albert-Given) appropriate section? So much to ask?????

 

wrong again. i didn't "shit on" anything. i gave an opinion about BOTH 16-bit machines. one which quite a few on this thread agreed with/stated the same before me.

yet you single me out for an argument several times - that's just a little bit stalker-ish fella, calm down, (btw - my replies are to defend myself from your ludicrous accusations).

 

if this thread had no link (no matter how tangible) to the A8, i'm sure it would've been "relocated" by now.

please stop telling people(plural) what they can/can't say and where they can/can't say it...

 

who died and made you God? how are the pigeons doing?

[Albert]

It is not a big deal that a "Happy Birthday Amiga" thread was posted in the Atari 8-bit forum. The Amiga was the spiritual successor to the Atari 8-bits. If you don't want to read about the Amiga in the 8-bit forum, you are free to IGNORE this one thread and move on to the next Atari 8-bit thread. Not everything is black and white, and not every thread has to rigidly be about only the Atari 8-bits. The thread started innocently enough, and it's sad to see how quickly it devolved. IF you cannot discuss this topic rationally without attacking other users, please move on. Let the moderators and myself worry about moving threads when we feel it's appropriate to do so.

 

..Al

[Guest]

this ^^

[UNIXcoffee928]

There are a lot of really neat ideas in this 2015 Amiga demo, many of which could be used to great effect on the Atari:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_K81sZA3xc

 

[+wood_jl]

It is not a big deal that a "Happy Birthday Amiga" thread was posted in the Atari 8-bit forum. The Amiga was the spiritual successor to the Atari 8-bits. If you don't want to read about the Amiga in the 8-bit forum, you are free to IGNORE this one thread and move on to the next Atari 8-bit thread. Not everything is black and white, and not every thread has to rigidly be about only the Atari 8-bits. The thread started innocently enough, and it's sad to see how quickly it devolved. IF you cannot discuss this topic rationally without attacking other users, please move on. Let the moderators and myself worry about moving threads when we feel it's appropriate to do so.

 

..Al

 

You bring up a good point, and in fact, even if it wasn't, it's still law on you site, as well it should be. I stand corrected, then, as well I should be. I respect the Amiga (and enjoy the one I bought from Amiga-Extraordinare AA user "save2600," so I'm not against the machine. Since using the actual Amiga isn't *anything* like using an Atari 8-bit (the user experience is no similar to using an A8 than is using an ST, and IBM, or a Mac), I see this "A8 Spiritual Successor" business as - while true-in-part, as completely overrated. To each his own. I've learned to really like the Amiga in recent years, but I'm just sick of Anti-ST crapping. The ST was a good machine at a good price at the time, which is why I presume you owned one.

However, if I "attacked" other users (rather than simply disagree, which was my intent) then I apologize to those users. I like and respect both machines, and I simply maintain that the *original* 520ST/1040ST (not the TT, not the Falcon, and that later stuff) was a success. I'm sure others disagree. The Amiga was also a success. But one shouldn't have to be accused of attacking other users who disagree that the 520ST/1040ST was a success that saved the newly-formed Atari Corporation, because that's exactly what happened. Sure, after the Jaguar failed, "the inevitable" occurred, but in 1985-1987, the Atari ST was a bit of a success. I do apologize if it's "attacking" to point out this fact to someone who vehemently denies that fact.

Because it's your site, if you disagree, then I'll have to agree with you that I'm wrong. I'll play ball.

 

 

 

this ^^

Looks like you won. Oh well. Please explain the pigeon thing, for a lack of a more coherent point.

 

And now...HAPPY BIRTHDAY AMIGA!!! THE AMIGA RULES!! TRUE ATARI 8-BIT SUCCESSOR! ATARI ST SUCKS!!!! Now that we're all on the same page, let's move on, and I apologize for ever suggesting anything other than the former. Amiga Forever! Love my A500, and especially playing Electronic Arts "Archon" and "Dr. J and Larry Bird Play One on One" on the A500. I'm not making that up; those are a couple of my *actual* favourites on the Amiga, as next-gen versions of the A8 games they were based on. I suppose it's safe to talk about that, eh? Apologies to the management.

[Guest]

when written work loses objectivity or effectiveness, and it ends up reading like someone shouting at the pigeons.

In other words, the written work loses the reader's attention - words become pointless.

flocks of pigeons gather in town squares, and someone will (usually) attempt to scare them off, but the pigeons usually;

fly a short distance away, and return quickly, or ignore the person attempting to scare them.

end result: the person doing the shouting just looks crazy..carrying out a pointless action

therefore; someone shouting at pigeons is doing something pointless

[kiwilove]

My 2 cents worth - for anyone who wants to read it?

 

I'd guess that anyone's first computer (no matter what it is) will have a special position within their heart, etc etc - and no other computer thereafter will take that place - unless everything else clicked in your life - that becomes associated with it (with that other computer?)

 

The Atari ST was a bit of a disappointment to me - being spoilt by seeing silky smooth scrolling and movement of sprites on the Atari 800, etc - that the ST had to resort to a smaller screen size - and still could not do super smooth movement, unless you drop colours out.

The Amiga should have outclassed the ST in this regard - if it's hardware etc was used to it's utmost. However I turned to the 16-bit games consoles (and SNES) because the difference between people/design teams/etc were significantly different, ie. superior generally - for the action arcade games.

Although I started with an ST, went Amiga eventually - then games consoles.

However for the other types of games - you can say that the ST and Amiga delivered fine.

 

It's all a question of what does hold your interest - and go where that takes you - to be happy.