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Comparison of TI-99/x and Geneve 9640 emulators


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#1 globeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:29 AM

I was thinking about to create a comparison table for TI-99/x and Geneve 9640 emulators

(after doing the UCSD-P Code Pascal card test on the different systems),

 

but today I saw coincidentally that there was one already, but it need to be updated

and include JS99er.net

 

 

>>>  Spreadsheet produced by and courtesy of Eric Bray (November 14, 2012)!

>>>  http://ti99ers.org/v...e.php?page_id=6

 

 

 

Here are some others

 

Windows/Linux
- MESS/QMC2 - /4, TI-99/4A, QI, EVPC, /8, Geneve 9640.and many more
- MESS/QMC2 - TI-99/8 built-in OS
- V9T9 - TI-99/4A
- Classic99 - TI-99/4 and TI/99/4A or QI (V2.2)
====================================
Android
-------
- Android99 (Android phone)

 

Java
-------
- JS99er.net (online / webbrowser) - Rasmus
- JS99er (Java 1.5) offline - Rasmus

 

Windows
-------
- Ti99w (v4.4) - Fred
- Win994a-TI-99/4A Simulator for Windows - Version 3.010 (2/Apr/2013)
- PC99

 

Older emulators:
(http://www.99er.net/emul.shtml)
---------------

DOS (e.g. use "Dosbox 0.74") to run these systems
---
PC99 - DOS/WIN
V9T9 - DOS/WIN (TI6.0)
TI-99/4A Emulator by Ton Brouwer (For the PC)

Windows
-------
ami99- WIN

Apple MacinTosh
---------------
MACV9T9- MAC

Amiga
---------------
TI4Amiga- Amiga
TI-99/4A Emulator by Ton Brouwer, ported by Stefan Haubenthal (For the Amiga)

Linux versions
--------------
TI99SIM - Linux
TI-99/4A Emulator by Ton Brouwer - Linux

Tomy Tutor
----------
The Tutti Emulator by Cameron Kaiser
(For the Commodore 64, or a C64 emulator)



#2 Schmitzi OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:32 PM

OK, as we have a list for all... :)      .... I am working on this here:

 

 

 

 

Attached File  TI-99-EMU-Compare-v1.0.pdf   17.56KB   16 downloads

 

 

ScreenShot:

Attached File  TI-99-EMU-Compare-v1.0-ScreenShot.JPG   143.73KB   3 downloads



#3 mizapf ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:35 PM

Even though QMC2 is often used with MESS, I'd rather not join them to one entry. It's just one front-end, but maybe there will be better ones in the future. Me, I never use QMC2; no added value for me, as I start MESS by a bash script.



#4 TheMole OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:40 AM

Some corrections to your list, Globeron:

  • js99er.net is actually written in javascript, not Java. Even the offline version will need a browser to run. There is v9t9j, which is written in Java though.
  • ti99sim works on Linux, Mac and Windows.
  • MESS works on Linux, Mac and Windows; (as does QMC2, by the way, but as Michael says we should split those out since QMC2 is only a frontend and a lot of people use MESS without it, myself included).
  • Classic99 and v9t9 (no j), do not work on anything besides windows, so no Linux support. v9t9j, being Java based, does work on Linux and Mac.

Edited by TheMole, Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:40 AM.


#5 Tursi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:11 PM

V9T9 was DOS, not Windows - it's listed right in the DOS section so maybe the first entry was meant to be V9T9J?

(Ami99 was DOS too, but does anyone actually HAVE that anymore? I don't. For that matter, it was originally for Amiga, but I only have a video of that anymore. ;) I don't know if it matters to record lost software.)

And to echo TheMole, Classic99 is Windows only.

#6 Shift838 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:48 PM

I like MESS for emulating the more expanding systems.  Has a lot more versatility than other that I have found.  One of the best features I like with MESS is it's ability to map actual communications ports and use a serial device like a UDS10 that is own the PC to modem out.  I have done that with MESS with Geneva 9640 emulation.

 

 

I also like Classic99 as it is very easy to use.  I would be nice to have some additional functionality around hardware expansion.  But Classic 99 is very stable.

 

My experience with using QMC2 on my Windows 64 bit machine has proved it to be very unstable.  At least for me.  QMC2 crashed on me at some point while I am using it.



#7 Schmitzi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:04 AM

New list:

 

I have added the operation-systems, but I am not sure if that is all right :)

 

/EDIT: I like updates :)

 

Attached File  TI-99-EMU-Compare-v1.21.pdf   19.47KB   6 downloads



#8 Schmitzi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:54 PM

...much more corrections :)

 

/Edit3: Attached File  TI-99-EMU-Compare-v1.23.pdf   27.05KB   5 downloads

 

 

any infos and corrections welcome.



#9 Schmitzi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:01 PM

/EDIT4:   Attached File  TI-99-EMU-Compare-v1.24.pdf   26.92KB   13 downloads



#10 Tursi OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:01 AM

A couple updates for Classic99, based on what I see in that latest table:

 

Writing to disk images is probably better listed as "Xper" since it is possible (so, read/xper write?). You can either configure the TI Disk Controller (DSK1-DSK3, max size 180k), or it works across the board if the software in question writes sectors, only file writes are blocked.

 

Under CF you have Classic99 listed as read and nobody else... if you meant 400 sector disk images compatible with the CF device, yes. But it can't read CF card images today.

 

Classic99 does NOT support HDD RAW SEC-Dump at all. (No hard drive image support, nor is it likely to come, ever :) ).

 

-TI Disk CTRL - xper - it's implemented and it works but it's not exposed because it is limited to the TI disk controller limitations of DSK1-DSK3, and 180k images.

-TI 32k says "w" - not sure what that means? Also... does "TI 32k" mean /any/ 32k? Classic99 doesn't emulate the initialization side-effects of the TI 32k card, which causes the issues with Turbo Pascal. It more accurately emulates a simple 8-bit 32k SRAM expansion. I don't intend to change that either, I'd like software to work with modern memory expansion options. ;)

-TI Speech Synth should still be listed as xper - it's not right by far.

-Cassette seems to be listed twice.

 

The sound columns are a bit weird these days -- PC speaker versus Soundblaster is really more of a DOS thing - modern operating systems interface to the audio hardware via drivers and often don't care what hardware is underneath. To that end none of the Windows/Linux/Mac emulators really "support" a SoundBlaster and yet they'll all work on it. ;) Likewise for game controllers - Classic99 doesn't even /know/ if you're using a game port, USB, a hacked in parallel port interface, or what, it just asks Windows "hey, can I have a game controller #1?" I'd probably just indicate "audio support" and "game controller support (0/1/2)".

 

Classic99 has two other older variants if you care to list them ( I don't care if they are, but you list Ami99-Win). There's also Ami99-DOS and Ami99-Amiga. ;)



#11 globeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:21 AM

Some corrections to your list, Globeron:

  • js99er.net is actually written in javascript, not Java. Even the offline version will need a browser to run. There is v9t9j, which is written in Java though.
  • ti99sim works on Linux, Mac and Windows.
  • MESS works on Linux, Mac and Windows; (as does QMC2, by the way, but as Michael says we should split those out since QMC2 is only a frontend and a lot of people use MESS without it, myself included).
  • Classic99 and v9t9 (no j), do not work on anything besides windows, so no Linux support. v9t9j, being Java based, does work on Linux and Mac.

thank you! funny all the Java. Yesterday coincidentally had a reunion with all the Sun Microsystems
Team from Singapore and Bangkok. Thailand from 15 years ago. I should know the difference but was doing other networking
And security business. Java script for browsers. I remember J2se J2me J2ee runtime etc.


For v9T9j Ed told me it is the same code both for Unix and windows
I am not aware of without j. Probably missed it. I do use ti6.0 for dos

#12 globeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:25 AM

V9T9 was DOS, not Windows - it's listed right in the DOS section so maybe the first entry was meant to be V9T9J?(Ami99 was DOS too, but does anyone actually HAVE that anymore? I don't. For that matter, it was originally for Amiga, but I only have a video of that anymore. ;) I don't know if it matters to record lost software.)And to echo TheMole, Classic99 is Windows only.


ti60 or v9t9 runs in dosbox. I used it to transfer disks to the Pc
te transfer tool works wit Forth. I have my pdf how to do it.
But can share once access to pc.

#13 globeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:30 AM

/EDIT4:   attachicon.gifTI-99-EMU-Compare-v1.24.pdf


hi Ralf. Thanks. Will look into it later!

#14 Tursi OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:58 AM

ti60 or v9t9 runs in dosbox. I used it to transfer disks to the Pc
te transfer tool works wit Forth. I have my pdf how to do it.
But can share once access to pc.


Yes, but DOSBox is an emulator, I use it too. It doesn't turn V9T9 into a Windows program any more than Classic99 turns Parsec into a Windows program. ;)

#15 Schmitzi OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:05 AM

A couple updates for Classic99, based on what I see in that latest table:

 

Writing to disk images is probably better listed as "Xper" since it is possible (so, read/xper write?). You can either configure the TI Disk Controller (DSK1-DSK3, max size 180k), or it works across the board if the software in question writes sectors, only file writes are blocked.

 

Under CF you have Classic99 listed as read and nobody else... if you meant 400 sector disk images compatible with the CF device, yes. But it can't read CF card images today.

 

Classic99 does NOT support HDD RAW SEC-Dump at all. (No hard drive image support, nor is it likely to come, ever :) ).

 

-TI Disk CTRL - xper - it's implemented and it works but it's not exposed because it is limited to the TI disk controller limitations of DSK1-DSK3, and 180k images.

-TI 32k says "w" - not sure what that means? Also... does "TI 32k" mean /any/ 32k? Classic99 doesn't emulate the initialization side-effects of the TI 32k card, which causes the issues with Turbo Pascal. It more accurately emulates a simple 8-bit 32k SRAM expansion. I don't intend to change that either, I'd like software to work with modern memory expansion options. ;)

-TI Speech Synth should still be listed as xper - it's not right by far.

-Cassette seems to be listed twice.

 

The sound columns are a bit weird these days -- PC speaker versus Soundblaster is really more of a DOS thing - modern operating systems interface to the audio hardware via drivers and often don't care what hardware is underneath. To that end none of the Windows/Linux/Mac emulators really "support" a SoundBlaster and yet they'll all work on it. ;) Likewise for game controllers - Classic99 doesn't even /know/ if you're using a game port, USB, a hacked in parallel port interface, or what, it just asks Windows "hey, can I have a game controller #1?" I'd probably just indicate "audio support" and "game controller support (0/1/2)".

 

Classic99 has two other older variants if you care to list them ( I don't care if they are, but you list Ami99-Win). There's also Ami99-DOS and Ami99-Amiga. ;)

 

 

Yes, all is entered, see the new version here :)

 

- for the CF-format/card I added an column

- the "W" at the 32k exactly means what you say (you told it to me before :) added as text on the bottom of the list. interimsolution :)

- Removed one of the "cassettes"

- added 2 rows for the AMI99 (sorry, not more, as I don´t know more about)

- entered all other infos you gave me. at least, I hope so :)

- played a bit around with green color. If not better, pls let me know

 

Ralf

 

 

Attached File  TI-99-EMU-Compare-v1.25.pdf   29.28KB   14 downloads



#16 Tursi OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:54 AM

- the "W" at the 32k exactly means what you say (you told it to me before :) added as text on the bottom of the list. interimsolution :)


I see... then why does only Classic99 have the mark, then? As far as I know only MESS attempts to emulate the DRAM powerup pattern of the TI 32k?

Edited by Tursi, Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:55 AM.


#17 globeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:05 AM

Hi Ralf,

More to be edited :-)

 

Maybe good to add the websites as well where to find all the emulators and to include more

details like the other table  (but honestly I think that the developers are the best to ask what

is inside and what not)

 

* TI latest version is 1983 (V2.2) which cannot handle 3rd party command cartridges (like Atari)

   (thus the 1981 OS version is better actually)

 

Furthermore I believe the developers never sleep, I do not know where people get the time...:-)

but I like it much !

 

*  Classic 99 is v382 already

    http://www.harmlessl...earch=classic99

 

*  V9T9j  (of Ed Swartz),  latest version is 21st of July 2015:  http://eswartz.github.io/emul/

    (I have not tested this one, 2nd of July is the latest I saw)

 

*   Rasmus is the best to ask,

     js99er.net is the online version with all software installed (via ...more option)

 

    and here is the JavaScript offline version

    js99er-1.9.zip  (for offline running it in a browser)

     http://atariage.com/...r/page-6?hl= js



#18 globeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:16 AM

Yes, but DOSBox is an emulator, I use it too. It doesn't turn V9T9 into a Windows program any more than Classic99 turns Parsec into a Windows program. ;)

 

Hi Tursi,

I understand the difference, but I had to run the native TI60 (v9t9) "Transfer" programme as that time I had no other clue how to transfer

disks to the PC (using non-adjusted hardware and HDX did not get it to work that time with a normal RS232). 

 

Even it is old Transfer was still a "fast way" to transfer floppies.  VDM99 is also good with the normal equipment  (I like the hook feature)

but the best / fastest is what Ralf setup (an old PC with all type of drives connected to it and use OmniFlop or similar)

 

I also saw MFM (Magic File Manipulator) https://www.youtube....h?v=Yt7rc2fulgc

(have not tried that one yet).

 

Overview of transferring files between PC and TI    (work in progress !) 

http://www.globeron....nsfer-v1.12.pdf



#19 gferluga OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:57 PM

Actually, somebody was able to compile ti99sim under OS X Yosemite with Xcode 6.4?

I'm getting a link error.

Thx



#20 Schmitzi OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:38 PM

I see... then why does only Classic99 have the mark, then? As far as I know only MESS attempts to emulate the DRAM powerup pattern of the TI 32k?

 

..maybe because I am oblivious... :)  what should I write where to ?



#21 Schmitzi OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:43 PM

Teaser:

 

the new EMU-list will look somehow like this:

 

 

Attached File  TI-99-EMU-Compare-v2.00-beta.pdf   32.4KB   13 downloads

 

 

ScreenShot:

 

Attached File  TI-99-EMU-Compare-v2.00-beta.JPG   240.98KB   2 downloads



#22 Tursi OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:21 AM

..maybe because I am oblivious... :)  what should I write where to ?


I think maybe it's a mistake to get too deep in the details, honestly. I think each column maybe should just be "None/Partial/Full" - you'll save a lot of heartache trying to get every detail right.

Since there's only one known piece of software in the history of the TI-99/4A that appears to rely on the side effect of the TI 32k memory card power-up state, and since that same software would potentially have unpredictable issues with warm boots even on that card, and because there were many, many alternatives to the 32k card that were used over the years (NONE of which had the same effect), I think I'd just list "32k memory expansion: yes/no" and be done with it. The Turbo Pascal artifact is a bug.

#23 globeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:14 PM

Latest list of TI and/or Geneve 9640 emulators:

 

Attached File  TI-Emulators-Part-1.jpg   118.98KB   0 downloads

 

Attached File  TI-Emulators-Part-2.jpg   18.27KB   0 downloads

 

 

 

Some of them you can see here at YouTube -- channel TI99 VIDEOS (open up all videos):

https://www.youtube....sable_polymer=1



#24 RickyDean ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 2, 2019 7:34 AM

V9T9 was DOS, not Windows - it's listed right in the DOS section so maybe the first entry was meant to be V9T9J?

(Ami99 was DOS too, but does anyone actually HAVE that anymore? I don't. For that matter, it was originally for Amiga, but I only have a video of that anymore. ;) I don't know if it matters to record lost software.)

And to echo TheMole, Classic99 is Windows only.

I still have it stored in my TI archives.  :-D



#25 ewbray OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 4, 2019 8:13 PM

In my opinion:

 

For the better sound emulation I suggest you use Win994a (tested running XB version of Axel F on both of them, then recording the sound in .wav format with Audacity and comparing the graphic representations on the two graphs that were produced)

 

For the better speech emulation I suggest you use Win99a (tested running Lincoln's Gettysburg Address on both of them, then recording the sound in .wav format with Audacity and comparing the graphic representations on the two graphs that were produced; same was performed again with the music in the program)

 

For the better bitmapped graphic emulation I suggest you use Classic99 (tested viewing converted Convert9918 files on both of them; images appear to have more definition with Classic99)

 

Classic99's speech portion of the emulator still isn't finish (according to author); used "old" version of speech synthesizer software and needs to correct the interrupts 

 

Classic99's sound portion of the emulator still isn't finish (according to author); used "old" version of sound chip software

 






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