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Easy ROM to CAR Utility

ROM car

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#26 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 17, 2017 3:05 PM

time to update flow charts and such to include the ultimate and unocart



#27 megarat OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 17, 2017 11:34 PM

 

There is one built-into The!Cart Studio. Just create a new project and drop/add all your file on it.

 

http://www.wudsn.com...s/thecartstudio

 

Outstanding, thanks for the info.  I'll give it a try.



#28 JAC! ONLINE  

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Posted Mon May 22, 2017 12:42 AM

time to update flow charts and such to include the ultimate and unocart

Ultimate card is already in the overview. 

http://www.wudsn.com...0/tools/thecart

But like for it's little brother Unocart, there is no need to use The!Cart Studio or similar at all for them, as you can just put the files on the SD without it. 



#29 CZroe OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 23, 2017 1:13 PM

A couple questions:

First, what is a "switchable" XEGS cart? The!CartStudio doesn't seems to differentiate whether or not a particular XEGS format title is "switchable" so I've been converting every XEGS title twice. Second, a large number of XEGS titles from AtariMania do not work with RomToCar.html. These are the ones I found:

Length of Ace of Aces.rom is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of AIRBALL.BIN is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Barnyard Blaster.BIN is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Crime Buster.BIN is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Crossbow.rom is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Fight Night.BIN is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Lode Runner.rom is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Summer Games.rom is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Crystal Castles.rom is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Food Fight_Atari.BIN is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Bug Hunt.rom is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Choplifter! _ Atari (US).rom is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Dark Chambers.rom is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of David's Midnight Magic.BIN is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Mario Bros..rom is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Thunderfox.BIN is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Tower Toppler.BIN is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Desert Falcon.rom is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of Deflektor.rom is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
 
Length of BattleZone.rom is not a multiple of 1024 bytes
The AtariMania archive for Food Fight also included "Food Fight_Atari.rom" alongside "Food Fight_Atari.BIN." RomToCar.html accepted the *.rom file just fine. AtariMania didn't say why there were two different files.

Edited by CZroe, Tue May 23, 2017 1:34 PM.


#30 electrotrains OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 23, 2017 1:37 PM

If the files are not a multiple of 1024 bytes, then they may already have the CAR header - they've just been named incorrectly.

 

I've had a quick look at AIRBALL.BIN from AtariMania, and sure enough its 16 bytes bigger than a plain 128k ROM dump, and the first few bytes look like the 16 byte CAR header.

 

So all you need to do is rename these files to *.CAR - no need to use the utility at all.

 

I should improve it so it spots if a file already has the CAR header, and simply offers to rename the file in this case.

 

Robin



#31 CZroe OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 23, 2017 11:49 PM

If the files are not a multiple of 1024 bytes, then they may already have the CAR header - they've just been named incorrectly.

 

I've had a quick look at AIRBALL.BIN from AtariMania, and sure enough its 16 bytes bigger than a plain 128k ROM dump, and the first few bytes look like the 16 byte CAR header.

 

So all you need to do is rename these files to *.CAR - no need to use the utility at all.

 

I should improve it so it spots if a file already has the CAR header, and simply offers to rename the file in this case.

 

Robin

Thanks! I thought the Ultimate Cart would recognize if that were the case so I tried them anyway and they would fail to load with a message saying something like "Bad ROM?" A simple "REN *.bin *.car" and "REN *.rom *.car" and now they all work!

 

Now, another question: To determine what needed to be converted I loaded all 200+ titles I had into The!Cart Studio and sorted by Content Type. I only had 18 titles that were not standard 8 or 16KB. I converted the 18 XEGS 32, XEGS 64, XEGS 128, Atarimax 1MB (Space Harrier) and Bounty Bob Strikes Back 40KB files to CAR and tested every single one. They all worked but, surprisingly, so did all the UNconverted ROMs (except for Bounty Bob). Do these really need to be converted for any reason?

 

The next issue I'm having is with "Loas with OS-B" titles like Demon Attack and Astro Chase. I just get a blue screen with a cursor when I load these. AtariMania says "Load with OS-B" under "Additional Comments." Is that something the Ultimate Cart can do? I have no idea what they even mean but my guess is that it isn't compatible with whatever OS is in my 800XL's ROM and so I need to load a different OS, a version B, first. I have no clue how that is done considering that the Ultimate Cart and a few other carts are literally my only content for the thing. Do I need a floppy drive? SD2SIO?



#32 electrotrains OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 24, 2017 1:28 AM

They all worked but, surprisingly, so did all the UNconverted ROMs (except for Bounty Bob). Do these really need to be converted for any reason?

 

 

If you have a look at the Ultimate Cart user guide, you'll see a table that shows what the cartridge will emulate when a file is a plain ROM (i.e. not a CAR).

I picked these defaults so you wouldn't need to bother converting files for the most common types.

 

So e.g. if you provide a 64k ROM file, it will assume that it is a XEGS format 64k ROM.

Bountry Bob is also a 64k ROM file, but since it requires different emulation, you'll need to convert this to a CAR.

 

Not sure how you'll go about using a cartridge that requires OS-B. Maybe someone else can suggest something? (or you could try to find a patched XEX version)

 

regards,

 

Robin



#33 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 24, 2017 3:58 AM

um can't the os be appended to the rom? failing that.... load the os then the rom.... a look towards atarimax osb patch method or mybios could give insight



#34 DrVenkman OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 24, 2017 6:53 AM

Or use an OS-B for one of your slots in an Ultimate 1MB. :D

#35 kenames99 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 24, 2017 6:37 PM

very cool electrotrains. thanks for your efforts.



#36 MrFish ONLINE  

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Posted Wed May 24, 2017 6:54 PM

...Bounty Bob Strikes Back 40KB files to CAR and tested every single one.

 

Bountry Bob is also a 64k ROM file, but since it requires different emulation, you'll need to convert this to a CAR.

 

?

 

BBSB is a 40KB file as stated above.



#37 CZroe OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 24, 2017 6:55 PM

Or use an OS-B for one of your slots in an Ultimate 1MB. :D

I'm tying to figure out what this means. I take it that Ultimate 1MB is a cart type. If that isn't the Ultimate Atari Cart itself, it must be one of the types of carts it simulates, like Atarimax 1MB. If that cart had "slots" I take it that it's a flash cart that allowed you to load dumps/ROM images into different slots.

So, you're saying that I can make a CAR file for an Ultimate 1MB cart with both the game and the OS to run it on the Ultimate Atari Cart?

Edited by CZroe, Wed May 24, 2017 6:56 PM.


#38 DrVenkman OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 24, 2017 7:09 PM

I'm tying to figure out what this means. I take it that Ultimate 1MB is a cart type. If that isn't the Ultimate Atari Cart itself, it must be one of the types of carts it simulates, like Atarimax 1MB. If that cart had "slots" I take it that it's a flash cart that allowed you to load dumps/ROM images into different slots.

So, you're saying that I can make a CAR file for an Ultimate 1MB cart with both the game and the OS to run it on the Ultimate Atari Cart?

 

Sorry, no. I was being cheeky. :)

 

The Ultimate 1MB is a memory expansion (among a number of other things) that also provides 4 different user-selectable flash-ROM slots to store the OS of your choice. In my case, I use one of the slots to keep a copy of OSb, padded out to the proper 16K (OSb is only 10K so must be filled out with a hex editor with dummy data when used with a multi-OS system that expects 16K roms like the XL, XE and XEGS rom versions). I keep OSb around for the few games and software titles that weren't ever hacked or patched to use XL or XE OS versions. Also, just for giggles it's fun to see Memo Pad on my 800XL, lol.

 

Here's the U1MB by the way: 

http://www.lotharek....duct.php?pid=67



#39 CZroe OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 24, 2017 7:19 PM

 
Sorry, no. I was being cheeky. :)
 
The Ultimate 1MB is a memory expansion (among a number of other things) that also provides 4 different user-selectable flash-ROM slots to store the OS of your choice. In my case, I use one of the slots to keep a copy of OSb, padded out to the proper 16K (OSb is only 10K so must be filled out with a hex editor with dummy data when used with a multi-OS system that expects 16K roms like the XL, XE and XEGS rom versions). I keep OSb around for the few games and software titles that weren't ever hacked or patched to use XL or XE OS versions. Also, just for giggles it's fun to see Memo Pad on my 800XL, lol.
 
Here's the U1MB by the way: 
http://www.lotharek....duct.php?pid=67


Ah! Thanks. That makes a lot more sense. Is Memo Pad an indicator of OS-B? I ask because my original Atari 800 boots into Memo Pad and, if so, I can test Demon Attack there.

#40 DrVenkman OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 24, 2017 7:39 PM

Memo Pad is a feature of the original Atari OS versions for the 400/800 (OSa, which I've never seen, and OSb) - it appears when you boot without a cartridge installed, or if you boot to a DOS menu, if you select Run Cartridge or the equivalent command. Your 800 *SHOULD* have OSb unless it was modified somewhere along the way. The fact that Memo Pad appears without a cartridge inserted is a good indication that it is using OSb.

#41 electrotrains OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 25, 2017 2:38 AM

BBSB is a 40KB file as stated above.

 

 

 

Oops. You are quite right. Not sure why I didn't put in a default handler for 40k ROM files - it probably didn't seem right to do it for a single game, though I don't think there were any other 40k cartridges?

 

Regarding OS-B, you'll get exactly the same behaviour when you use the file from the Ultimate Cart as you would get if you plugged the original cart in your machine. If the original cart wouldn't work on your machine, it won't work when you emulate it using the Ultimate Cart either.

 

Although in theory I could change the Atari's OS from the Ultimate Cart using the "soft" OS method I used with the UnoCart for disk drive emulation, it would only work on 64K+ XL/XE machines and isn't a 100% reliable method. I'm not planning to upgrade the firmware to support this - I don't think it would be worth the effort.

 

You could get a SysCheck v2.2 ECI/PBI device, since this supports alternative OS ROMs. Its a plug-in device, you don't need to modify your machine.

Or an Ultimate 1Meg device (which requires installation inside your machine).

 

Or you could just try to find a XEX file. If this has already been patched for the XL/XE OS, you're good to go - otherwise you could use the AtariMax cartridge studio software to make a AtariMax format CAR file from the XEX, since (I think) this software can append a Soft-OS OS-B to a XEX file.

 

Robin



#42 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 25, 2017 4:09 AM

with a real cart you can load the translator as I described in a  translate kit thread and then hot plug the real cartridge and play/run the real cart and it's all good

can't do it with the ultimate cart.... the only fix is  firmware fix.....it would be worth it since a number of persons have mentioned it in round about terms.... the work around is a bit convoluted,,,, using atarimax workbook to create an os-b and cart ad using it in the ultimate...just to get tomatoes thrown.. howsa boutsa atr.. loader :)

run as fast and far as he can



#43 gozar OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 25, 2017 6:07 AM

with a real cart you can load the translator as I described in a  translate kit thread and then hot plug the real cartridge and play/run the real cart and it's all good

can't do it with the ultimate cart.... the only fix is  firmware fix.....it would be worth it since a number of persons have mentioned it in round about terms.... the work around is a bit convoluted,,,, using atarimax workbook to create an os-b and cart ad using it in the ultimate...just to get tomatoes thrown.. howsa boutsa atr.. loader :)

run as fast and far as he can

 

The Uno cart can already load an alternative OS for ATR emulation, couldn't this be extended to loading OS-B for certain programs? Maybe use .osb as a file extension so it knows, or use a different boot key instead of RETURN.



#44 electrotrains OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 25, 2017 6:09 AM

The Uno cart can already load an alternative OS for ATR emulation, couldn't this be extended to loading OS-B for certain programs? Maybe use .osb as a file extension so it knows, or use a different boot key instead of RETURN.

 

 

Firmware is open source, any contributions welcomed  ;-).



#45 MrFish ONLINE  

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Posted Thu May 25, 2017 6:30 AM

Oops. You are quite right. Not sure why I didn't put in a default handler for 40k ROM files - it probably didn't seem right to do it for a single game, though I don't think there were any other 40k cartridges?

 

Out of the almost 600 cartridge ROMs that I have, BBSB stands alone at 40KB.



#46 CZroe OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 25, 2017 7:21 AM

 
Oops. You are quite right. Not sure why I didn't put in a default handler for 40k ROM files - it probably didn't seem right to do it for a single game, though I don't think there were any other 40k cartridges?
...

Well, so far I haven't found a game yet that needs to be converted to CAR before it will work... other than Bounty Bob. Would boost the "it just works" compatibility that much closer to 100% (no need to convert to CAR), if that's a concern. :)

#47 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 25, 2017 5:48 PM

would be nice to have all naked roms without the headers....



#48 Supergun OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:23 PM

would be nice to have all naked roms without the headers....


Yes, I am in serious need of this myself.

99% of all the Atari Computer line rom images that I can find all over the internet are in .xex format. (or some other abnormal file extension).

Is there a place to download the roms in their native & normal .bin (.rom) format? Or perhaps a program that can strip these modified rom files of their headers (or whatever the heck they have had implemented into them) and extrapolate the original raw binary rom image that is found on the actual physical cartridges.

#49 JAC! ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:43 AM

99% of all the Atari Computer line rom images that I can find all over the internet are in .xex format. (or some other abnormal file extension).

 

I think there is a misunderstanding here, these files are no ROM images at all.

Most programs were actually never released as ROM after the day disk drives were introduced.

They were coded to run from disks / DOS and are only available in the corresponding file formats (COM/EXE/XEX/ATR/XFD).

There is no simple conversion and often there is no conversion at all (esp. of the program is >16k).



#50 Supergun OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:16 AM

Thanks for the responses so far. And I completely understand what your saying here above. But I think that what Im specifically asking is not clear. So please allow me to state the long & detailed version of what Im asking.

Atari had cartridges, diskettes, & cassettes available for play on their 400/800/1200/etc. computer system line. The memory (rom space) they had on cartridges during the late 70s/early 80s was small. (8K/16K using 2732/2764 roms/eproms) They soon outgrew it, so cassettes & diskettes (which could hold more memory) became the new standard.

Later on, in the late 80s, with the XE (XEGS) Atari brought about the super cart which could hold much more memory; as much in fact as many of the earlier diskette games, whereby making for the ability to put a 64K/128K rom image on 27c512/27c1001 eproms. (see another thread here where I posted about having the diskette game Tapper - 64K on an XE super cart)

But what Im asking here is not even that complex. I understand that in order to do the above, it requires rom modding & hacking in order to accommodate it. Rather what Im asking here (this time) is far simpler.

Whats happened is that (for example) if you go to the Atarimania website, and click on a cartridge rom image download, after you unzip it, you find that it is in an xex or car or whatever weirdo format. Granted, doesnt matter if your using the ultimate cart or some other similar device to play it in your system. But if your trying to burn the image onto an eprom to then put on an individual cartridge to build yourself, it doesnt work because it isnt in the correct rom or bin format.

And in many cases, Im not even talking about large rom files. Im talking about actual released rom cartridges that clearly exist/existed in that format originally/natively but for whatever reason, as the years have passed, the only rom images you can find for them on the net are the ones that were modified from bin to xex.





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