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Intellivision 'Dual Action' Controller...


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#1 nurmix OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:52 PM

TRON Deadly Discs / Night Stalker / AD&D Cloudy Mountain anyone?

...more details soon



#2 mr_intv OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:05 PM

Very interested! Sign me up! :)

#3 intvsteve OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:19 PM

Sounds like fun!



#4 nurmix OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:21 PM

Dual_Action_Controller_prototype_r2.jpg



#5 killersquirel OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:28 PM

I know what you're doing, and I'm extremely interested.



#6 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:31 PM

Im not sure what this will accomplish but definitely interested.

#7 intellivotion OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:40 PM

with that it seems that you can run and shoot at the same time in games like A.D.& D., Tron D.Discs and N. Stalker (and even Ms. N. Stalker).

 

Nice!



#8 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:50 PM

with that it seems that you can run and shoot at the same time in games like A.D.& D., Tron D.Discs and N. Stalker (and even Ms. N. Stalker).
 
Nice!

ahh i see so he managed to seperate the keypad and disc. Im interested in seeing how it was accomplished internally.

#9 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:06 PM

ahh i see so he managed to seperate the keypad and disc. Im interested in seeing how it was accomplished internally.

 

Me too. Most hacks like this are pretty simple and obvious. Knowing how signals get pulled off the mylar, I'm extremely curious what the hell kind of witchcraft is involved here.



#10 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:24 PM

 
Me too. Most hacks like this are pretty simple and obvious. Knowing how signals get pulled off the mylar, I'm extremely curious what the hell kind of witchcraft is involved here.

yeah mylars not a fun thing to try to attach wires to. Possibly solder paste?

#11 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:31 PM

yeah mylars not a fun thing to try to attach wires to. Possibly solder paste?

Well it's that... but also just how the signals come off in the first place. I'd have to assume we're talking about 2 inserts, each with their own discrete signal paths, cut just so to fit with each other. I'm sure I'll slap my head and go "oh, right" when I see it, but damn - looks like a lot of hard work on the surface. I sold a console to a guy last year who is a HUGE Night Stalker fan. I bet he'd pay $50 for something like this given how much he plays it.

 

Personally I've always wanted a decent Deadly Discs controller, but a la Robotron or SmashTV. The keypad+disc is still awkward to hold for long periods. I've thought about making a dual-joy controller but man, so much work for just one game...



#12 SiLic0ne t0aD85 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:37 PM

Robotron 2084, here we come!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :P



#13 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:38 PM

Well it's that... but also just how the signals come off in the first place. I'd have to assume we're talking about 2 inserts, each with their own discrete signal paths, cut just so to fit with each other. I'm sure I'll slap my head and go "oh, right" when I see it, but damn - looks like a lot of hard work on the surface. I sold a console to a guy last year who is a HUGE Night Stalker fan. I bet he'd pay $50 for something like this given how much he plays it.
 
Personally I've always wanted a decent Deadly Discs controller, but a la Robotron or SmashTV. The keypad+disc is still awkward to hold for long periods. I've thought about making a dual-joy controller but man, so much work for just one game...

yes i will probably slap my head too. But im definitely interested in learning something new. Not sure i have the desire to do one myself though. Especially since those arent really the games i play.

#14 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:25 AM

Dual_Action_Controller_prototype_r2.jpg

 

 

ahh i see so he managed to seperate the keypad and disc. Im interested in seeing how it was accomplished internally.

 

It's probably something as mundane as using both controller cables, but one #1 is hooked up to the disc and buttons, and #2 to the keypad only.



#15 First Spear OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:20 AM

It's funny... My brother in I played everything 2-player all the time, since we had to share the Intellivision. When we played Tron Discs, I moved with my controller and he shot/blocked. Same for AD&D. etc. Always with 2 seperate controllers. We never knew that there was an Intv hardware limitation with keypad buttons and disc, never. I think that's also the reason why we were able to find out tricks like running fast vertically in AD&D in a narrow hallway and shooting horizontally and making an arrow wall that will bounce forever until a monster hits it; there is no way you could find that out on your own since the maneuver requires 3 hands. Crazy.

 

I think an Intellivisonaries-branded double action controller would be a great thing for those that have to play with themselves. :)



#16 JasonlikesINTV OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:51 AM

 
I think an Intellivisonaries-branded double action controller would be a great thing for those that have to play with themselves. :)


Meow?

#17 nurmix OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:21 PM

 
 
It's probably something as mundane as using both controller cables, but one #1 is hooked up to the disc and buttons, and #2 to the keypad only.

Mundane. Nice.

It's a bit more nuanced than that. I've taken what others have done (like our own Dr Clu) and [hopefully] improved on it.

It involves using 2 Flashback controllers for parts. 2 matrices - with certain areas cut out and/or masked off.

It involves using the small edge connectors (de-soldered from the controller daughterboards) and filed down to fit one on top of the other.

The 18 wires are soldered to those connectors. And there is some Dremel work internally so it all fits.

Most importantly, it plays great - for the limited games that will take advantage of it.

Edited by nurmix, Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:27 PM.


#18 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:37 PM

Mundane. Nice.

i wouldnt consider it mundane. As a fellow tech i would love to see how you accomplished it though. Im very intrigued but glad i dont play those games which means i dont gotta mod one of these for myself. :) if you dont want to publicly show how you did it feel free to pm me. And i have 100% no interest in doing it myself so i will not take business away from you.

Edited by pimpmaul69, Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:40 PM.


#19 nurmix OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:13 PM

i wouldnt consider it mundane. As a fellow tech i would love to see how you accomplished it though. At least tell me this: is the keypad or the disc the one with the second wire? Im very intrigued but glad i dont play those games which means i dont gotta mod one of these for myself. :) if you dont want to publicly show how you did it feel free to pm me. And i have 100% no interest in doing it myself so i will not take business away from you.


I'll do a full breakdown with pictures once I refine the process a bit more, and get some time to work on it. So far I only have my prototype, and I'm trying to make sure it works as well and reliably as it can. There are a few other adjustments I want to try.

But yeah, basically the bottom matrix is disc and side buttons, the top matrix is keypad (with disc portions cut out so they don't interfere with the disc response of the bottom matrix). The real challenge was getting everything to fit while remaining fully functional.

#20 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:01 PM

I'll do a full breakdown with pictures once I refine the process a bit more, and get some time to work on it. So far I only have my prototype, and I'm trying to make sure it works as well and reliably as it can. There are a few other adjustments I want to try.

But yeah, basically the bottom matrix is disc and side buttons, the top matrix is keypad (with disc portions cut out so they don't interfere with the disc response of the bottom matrix). The real challenge was getting everything to fit while remaining fully functional.

ok so you cut the matrix how i would have expected you to since double stacking the disc could have made the disc movement akward or inaccurate where overlapping the keypad you wouldnt notice as much.

#21 wongojack OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:21 PM

Awesome!  Now someone can create a homebrew that let's you use the controller like a NES pad with the disk on the left and the keypad on the right.  Keypad buttons can be jump/run or fire/fire2 etc.



#22 nurmix OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:41 PM

ok so you cut the matrix how i would have expected you to since double stacking the disc could have made the disc movement akward or inaccurate where overlapping the keypad you wouldnt notice as much.


Exactly. I did some experiments with erasing traces on some parts of the matrix (as opposed to cutting), but for the disc the best performance was obviously going to be having nothing else on too of it getting in the way.

But the keypad on top makes it the most responsive, since nothing is getting in the way above it. The bottom keypad is masked off, as it wasn't necessary to cut it out.

The thing that took a bit of sorting out was connecting the wires to the matrices. Soldering is obviously out. Conductive glue was suggested by Willie from the Colecovisions Podcast, who was also working out how to make a controller like this, but after playing around, I figured why reinvent the wheel. Just use the connectors already present.

But keeping the daughterboards was out because they'd never fit, so desoldering the connectors and filing them down was the best solution.

To be honest, this is a lot of work I doubt many people will want to attempt. It's only really useful for a handful of games. And you have to sacrifice 2 Flashback controllers to get one 'Dual Action' controller (the name is a play on Triple Action and the Colecovision Super Action controllers).

I may offer to make these for others if there is any interest. But for the most part, anyone who wants one would have to send me the two Flashback controllers - unless I can find a good cheap supply somewhere.

#23 nurmix OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:51 PM

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1439931065.033216.jpg

#24 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:14 PM

Mundane. Nice.

It's a bit more nuanced than that. I've taken what others have done (like our own Dr Clu) and [hopefully] improved on it.

It involves using 2 Flashback controllers for parts. 2 matrices - with certain areas cut out and/or masked off.

It involves using the small edge connectors (de-soldered from the controller daughterboards) and filed down to fit one on top of the other.

The 18 wires are soldered to those connectors. And there is some Dremel work internally so it all fits.

Most importantly, it plays great - for the limited games that will take advantage of it.


You really do not have to take every single word I say personally. ;)

In this case, I wasn't suggesting that there was no labour or effort involved in the process, but that the technical approach was simple or straightforward enough, which you have confirmed: using two matrices and capture only some signals from each.

dZ.

#25 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:14 PM

Mundane. Nice.

It's a bit more nuanced than that. I've taken what others have done (like our own Dr Clu) and [hopefully] improved on it.

It involves using 2 Flashback controllers for parts. 2 matrices - with certain areas cut out and/or masked off.

It involves using the small edge connectors (de-soldered from the controller daughterboards) and filed down to fit one on top of the other.

The 18 wires are soldered to those connectors. And there is some Dremel work internally so it all fits.

Most importantly, it plays great - for the limited games that will take advantage of it.


You really do not have to take every single word I say personally. ;)

In this case, I wasn't suggesting that there was no labour or effort involved in the process, but that the technical approach was simple or straightforward enough, which you have confirmed: using two matrices and capture only some signals from each.

dZ.




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