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Ultimate Cart (SD multicart) - Technical thread


electrotrains

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I opened mine and it fit fairly well with just a bit of Dremel work for the reset switch and SD card opening middle post reduced for lack of hole in PCB and space for the programing pins.

 

For me Roy no! :(

And my placement above is because I told to some members who ask me by p.m.'s, the opposite. If now someone still want to do it, is free to do it. But no with mine suggestion. ;)

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The original cart in the first post of the preorder thread looks like a regular XE ridged cart with blue paint and looks pretty well adapted. However unless the programming header is exposed on the back (and that would be no fun to create) I can't see how the Firmware could be easily updated. Every time you open the cart you have to worry about the latches breaking.

 

I would be very interested in seeing the back of that cart, and also the interior of the case to see what modifications needed to be made. I'm going to PM electrotrains and see if he can post to the thread... Also curious what the two holes at the bottom of the PCB are for.

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There are basic instructions on how to modify the shell in cartridge documenation doc/pdf (available on the github site).

The cartridge was designed to fit in one of the ridged grey shells (look at the picture on github), since I have a few shells of this type.

 

I didn't leave a hole for the programming header, since I didn't intend to update the firmware very often. In my case, some of the clips broke of when I opened the shell the first time, so its pretty easy for me to get the PCB out anyway.

 

I added the screw holes to the pcb in case I needed to fix the cartridge inside the case (since there was no room for the central post). However, it turned out fine without, so I've never used them.

 

EDIT - I wonder if there is more than one type of this grey shell, and santosp has one that has different dimensions from mine?

My cart looks the same inside as the picture posted by TheMontezuma above.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Robin

Edited by electrotrains
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I opened mine and it fit fairly well with just a bit of Dremel work for the reset switch and SD card opening middle post reduced for lack of hole in PCB and space for the programing pins.

 

Yes, it is not that bad ;)

However this is a manual work and requires time and some basic skills. It is very easy to make a mistake.

It would be better to allign the PCB dimensions to the following shell.

 

I attached some photos, which may help people using the original Atari shell:

 

post-29824-0-02581700-1455778443_thumb.jpgpost-29824-0-28116800-1455778459_thumb.jpg

post-29824-0-16302000-1455778471_thumb.jpgpost-29824-0-30076700-1455779073_thumb.jpg

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Very good work. :thumbsup: I had in my mind to try exact the same, but I am bit busy now to finish the SDX carts for Lenore. So no time for other occupation. :-D

For one more time, very good work!

 

BTW because all this isn't possible for everyone, if in the future make again from these, I will redesign the pcb to fit some known cartridge. ;)

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TheMontezuma - good work! That's exactly how I intended it to fit.

 

I realise it requires a bit of work, and (to be fair) I did say this in the original post when I started the pre-orders thread. I managed using some simple tools (I don't even have a dremel), so I figured it wasn't a big deal.

 

Btw - I didn't use the Polish shell mentioned because as soon as somebody suggests it, others start complaining that it doesn't fit in a 1200XL. I should have probably just ignored these complaints, since the 1200xl is a pretty obscure machine and 95% of people wouldn't have cared. It also annoys me that I've made something that requires old cartridges to be destroyed just to put a case on it.

 

First project = learning experience. I'll know better next time.

 

Robin

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. . .

Btw - I didn't use the Polish shell mentioned because as soon as somebody suggests it, others start complaining that it doesn't fit in a 1200XL. I should have probably just ignored these complaints, since the 1200xl is a pretty obscure machine and 95% of people wouldn't have cared. It also annoys me that I've made something that requires old cartridges to be destroyed just to put a case on it. . . .

 

Those Polish carts that don't fit a 1200XL also don't fit 400s and 800s. I don't like the idea of destroying anything, but it is much better to sacrifice a Bug Hunt than to use that awful Polish shell.

 

There has got to be a better solution.

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Ah I'd forgotten the Polish shell also didn't fit 400/800s.

 

Martin8Bity (or a friend?) has designed a case for the Ultimate Cart which can be 3D printed. I hope he won't object to me posting a image of it here.

 

Any chance of this design being open-sourced?

 

post-41252-0-65177700-1455797453_thumb.jpg

 

That way, anyone with a 3d printer could produce it, and perhaps the rest of us could use one of the online 3d printing services?

Alternatively, someone could do a small run and offer them on the forums.

 

Robin

Edited by electrotrains
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Yes, it is not that bad ;)

However this is a manual work and requires time and some basic skills. It is very easy to make a mistake.

It would be better to allign the PCB dimensions to the following shell.

 

I attached some photos, which may help people using the original Atari shell:

 

attachicon.gifIMG_20160217_203004.jpgattachicon.gifIMG_20160217_210005.jpg

attachicon.gifIMG_20160217_210031.jpgattachicon.gifIMG_20160217_210117.jpg

 

Excellent, that's exactly what I was looking for...

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First project = learning experience. I'll know better next time.

 

 

 

For a first project you came out of the gate running. I don't want you to think I'm bagging on the Cart enclosure issue, I just wanted to get a visual of the best way to get that sucker done.

 

Now I just need someone to make me a label sticker :D

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Yes, it is not that bad ;)

However this is a manual work and requires time and some basic skills. It is very easy to make a mistake.

It would be better to allign the PCB dimensions to the following shell.

 

I attached some photos, which may help people using the original Atari shell:

 

attachicon.gifIMG_20160217_203004.jpgattachicon.gifIMG_20160217_210005.jpg

attachicon.gifIMG_20160217_210031.jpgattachicon.gifIMG_20160217_210117.jpg

 

 

The big question: How did you get it open without breaking the tabs?

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MacRorie,

 

I think it may be largely down to luck - the first shell I opened none of the tabs broke, later attempts were not so successful. It may also depend on where/how much glue has also been applied, but there's nothing you can do about that.

 

In practice, the shells will click nicely back together with only some of the tabs remaining, so it's not a disaster if you lose a couple.

 

Robin

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There is some amazing work going on here in the time since I last read through. That WiFi card is sheer genius! The one thing I really, really like the most about the UltimateCart is its amazing versatility. I keep hoping that one day soon someone will come up with a firmware to replace the SIDE2 under SDX and... Wow - that tallied up with the potential WiFi access and... The sky is the limit!!!

 

In regards the case... Yeah - I am still on the hunt for an appropriate sacrificial cartridge. I shall look for 'Bug Hunt', previously I was searching for 'BallBlazer'. If we could get a custom 3D printed shell that would be the perfect solution. Oddly, now I have a 130XE however the case is no longer as big a deal. For all its failings the ECI slot does make it much easier to use bare circuit boards. Obviously though the case is required eventually just to reduce wear/tear and dust.

 

One question relating to this; I have been almost paranoid in making sure I insert the UltimateCart the right way around - obviously not a big deal if you have a case. However, if the worst happens and I do reverse it accidentally at some point, what are the consequences? Will it toast the thing or will it just sit there happily and not work? In the past I have seen off an - increasingly irreplaceable - 6502 CPU chip by reversing it in the socket, so I am very wary about this!

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One question relating to this; I have been almost paranoid in making sure I insert the UltimateCart the right way around - obviously not a big deal if you have a case. However, if the worst happens and I do reverse it accidentally at some point, what are the consequences? Will it toast the thing or will it just sit there happily and not work? In the past I have seen off an - increasingly irreplaceable - 6502 CPU chip by reversing it in the socket, so I am very wary about this!

Would be catastrophic, and this is the reason who I add all these smilies on the sd socket. For the same reason I have add this big "warning" message within P.M. Edited by santosp
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  • 2 weeks later...

This may be a more technical question, but is I think a valid 'user' question also. From the beginning UltimateCart was envisioned as open-source and user-expandable. There have been many passing suggestions of where future firmware might take the device - indeed the sheer versatility of the chips is amazing to consider. For instance, Robin has mentioned in the past that there is room and capability on the CPLD itself to describe an entire A8 system. That fact alone is pretty mind-boggling to me!!!

 

I wonder therefore if Robin or FJC or one of the other chaps who are working to mass-produce UltimateCart could give us some ideas of what is actually possible with the underlying hardware? Is it technically feasible for the device to replace the SIDE2? Could it operate as a hard-drive simulator of a completely new design? Is it possible it might become a 'SIO2SD' type floppy-drive emulator? These are just three specific applications I can think of but I am more interested in general potential.

 

In short I suppose; what directions does the CPLD and how it is mounted in the cartridge allow to be done? Maybe tallied with this is the larger question; what does the Atari cartridge slot allow to be done?

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This may be a more technical question, but is I think a valid 'user' question also. From the beginning UltimateCart was envisioned as open-source and user-expandable. There have been many passing suggestions of where future firmware might take the device - indeed the sheer versatility of the chips is amazing to consider. For instance, Robin has mentioned in the past that there is room and capability on the CPLD itself to describe an entire A8 system. That fact alone is pretty mind-boggling to me!!!

 

I wonder therefore if Robin or FJC or one of the other chaps who are working to mass-produce UltimateCart could give us some ideas of what is actually possible with the underlying hardware? Is it technically feasible for the device to replace the SIDE2? Could it operate as a hard-drive simulator of a completely new design? Is it possible it might become a 'SIO2SD' type floppy-drive emulator? These are just three specific applications I can think of but I am more interested in general potential.

 

In short I suppose; what directions does the CPLD and how it is mounted in the cartridge allow to be done? Maybe tallied with this is the larger question; what does the Atari cartridge slot allow to be done?

to be perfectly honest, you've got so much potential with an FPGA on cartridge like this, that I can't even begin to describe 'what you can do with it.' Yes, 'harddrive' capability is certainly possible. However, as a cartridge, it cannot act as a PBI device, which means any OS support is limited to RAM OS, unless it specifically models a SIDE or SIDE2 and is thus compatible with the U1MB PBI support. Another interesting thought, perhaps, is that the FPGA could implement a simple coprocessor of sorts, perhaps a 3D calculation GPU even, who knows...

 

The problem, as always, is that you're still partially limited by how fast the 6502 can move data

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As JoeyZ says, you should be able to do more or less anything that is possible via the cartridge port.

So, PBI devices are out, though hard drive functionality could be implemented in the same way as SIDE(2).

 

Specifically, this means it could be a hard drive compatible with the U1MB PBI support.

Or it could be a stand-alone device, with a specific driver written for SDX to access the SD card.

 

However, I personally don't have much need for a hard drive on my Atari, and both the U1MB BIOS and SDX are closed-source projects, so I'm not personally planning to get involved in writing the firmware to support the above. I'm happy for others to do so though.

 

I am more interested in some kind of SIO2SD (i.e. ATR) support and I've been thinking about this over the last few days. The obvious options are:

- modifed OS running from RAM patching the SIO calls through to the FPGA firmware/SD card.

- modifying ATRs in the FPGA firmware to patch the SIO calls

- maybe other options?

 

The key things I'd like to support are writeable ATRs (i.e. changes saved back to the SD card) and support for disk swapping. But it seems like most solutions will not be 100% compatible, and therefore its hard to justify the effort when my SIO2SD does its job so well.

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Hello Robin,

I wondered if you could add the emulation of the Megacart 2MB (type 64) and 4MB (type 63) modules?

More info: https://sourceforge.net/p/atari800/source/ci/master/tree/DOC/cart.txt

You can find out how these carts work if you look at the atari800 source code. If you need more info, please let me know.

 

The benefit is that you can use the following JAVA tool (Megacart Studio) to generate *.car files:

http://www.abbuc.de/~bernd/4MB_FLASH_MEGACART/assets/megacartstudiov5.8.zip

with collections of xex and atr files ( see also http://herale.org/4MB_FLASH_MEGACART )

 

I attached 3 *.car files (512K, 2MB and 4MB) for testing:

Megacart.zip

 

Best Regards

Marcin

Edited by TheMontezuma
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Hello Robin,

I wondered if you could add the emulation of the Megacart 2MB (type 64) and 4MB (type 63) modules?

More info: https://sourceforge.net/p/atari800/source/ci/master/tree/DOC/cart.txt

You can find out how these carts work if you look at the atari800 source code. If you need more info, please let me know.

 

The benefit is that you can use the following JAVA tool (Megacart Studio) to generate *.car files:

http://www.abbuc.de/~bernd/4MB_FLASH_MEGACART/assets/megacartstudiov5.8.zip

with collections of xex and atr files ( see also http://herale.org/4MB_FLASH_MEGACART )

 

I attached 3 *.car files (512K, 2MB and 4MB) for testing:

attachicon.gifMegacart.zip

 

Best Regards

Marcin

Not possible, the ultimate cart only has 1MB of RAM with which to emulate carts. That puts a maximum cap on the biggest cartridge sizes it can emulate.

Edited by Joey Z
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Hello Robin,

I wondered if you could add the emulation of the Megacart 2MB (type 64) and 4MB (type 63) modules?

More info: https://sourceforge.net/p/atari800/source/ci/master/tree/DOC/cart.txt

You can find out how these carts work if you look at the atari800 source code. If you need more info, please let me know.

 

 

Not possible, the ultimate cart only has 512K of RAM with which to emulate carts. That puts a maximum cap on the biggest cartridge sizes it can emulate.

 

Marcin,

 

As Joey Z says, its not possible since the cart doesn't have enough SRAM - though it is actually 1024K not 512k.

So MegaCarts dumps up to 1 megabyte (8 mbits) in size should work (CAR types 26-32).

 

Robin

Edited by electrotrains
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Marcin,

 

As Joey Z says, its not possible since the cart doesn't have enough SRAM - though it is actually 1024K not 512k.

So MegaCarts dumps up to 1 megabyte (8 mbits) in size should work (CAR types 26-32).

 

Robin

I changed the post to reflect the 1MB of memory, apparently after you started writing your post ;)

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