Obtaining Rights to Atari 2600 Games

[bmadgames]

Hey!

 

I'm a longtime Atari collector and first-time poster here. One of my interests of late has been to try to acquire the rights to some of the Atari 2600 games that are held by defunct companies. As I have found, sometimes it is a very difficult task to track down who still holds the rights to these games (deaths, sold off to an odd company, etc.). As time goes on, I think it is only going to become more difficult to seek out these rights-holders.

 

Why do I care? 1.) I think it is a potential business opportunity. These games could be re-released as part of a compilation on newer devices or as part of Flashbacks or whatever. 2. I think that having this library available to the community to legally modify/recreate/reproduce/whatever would be cool.

 

I might totally be off in left field on this one, but let me know what y'all think. Also, I am looking for one (or more) people to partner with on this project as it seems to be rather research intensive (and I am getting my Master's in Accounting, so I don't exactly have all day to mess with it). Any leads would also be helpful.

[jaybird3rd]

What games in particular are you interested in? I think most people would agree that the top three 2600 publishers were Atari, Activision, and Imagic. Imagic's library was supposedly acquired by Activision (although there seems to be differing views on that), and both Activision and Atari in their modern incarnations are already pretty active about publishing compilations of their 2600 games for modern platforms.

[bmadgames]

I was thinking of going after ones that are slightly less popular. It would obviously be too difficult and to get rights from the big companies and as you noted, they are already well taken care of. I'm thinking of starting with the smaller publishers and moving upwards from there.

[Keatah]

What I'd like to see are more arcade ports and 8-bit computer ports made for the VCS. Even re-writes of the older hits could be a big plus, for the ones that need re-writes anyways. As long as they are native to the VCS.

 

It has already been proven that previously unimaginable things are possible. Look at the Xevious dump, BallBlazer (wip), Pac-Man 4k/8k, and various Spiceware homebrews already on the market.

 

I don't get excited by re-writes of the older classics, good ones or bad ones, for new devices like phones and tablets. Maybe others do. Just that I don't.

[sloth-machine]

I never understood how homebrews of games that still retain active rights are AtariAge store. For example the Pac-Man games, Defender Arcade, the 5200 version of Tempest, etc.

 

But, since pretty much every rom from third party companies are freely available (Parker Brothers, Coleco, etc.) that they could be probably be considered 'abandonware', unless the rights holders actively seek out their property. Abandonware has always been a grey area in terms of legal dispute, basically the publisher and developer saying that they no longer care or support the software.

 

Seems like such a small window of demographic you are shooting for with the re-release of these basically offbeat games. Atari enthusiasts have the actual carts, or just use 2600 emulators on their phones, tablets and PC (like me). A flashback console would prove to be a tough investment. Atari's flashback console had, the name, the iconic games, and the consoles look. I hate to be blunt, but I just wouldn't buy any re-releases of say Tunnel Runner or Spikes Peaks. All the worthwhile classics are held by Atari and Activision. And all the arcade ports would have double licensing (bump n jump, frogger, etc) through the Atari game rights holders and the arcade rights holders.

 

For homebrew carts, I'd rather just give my money to the developer directly, since they are mostly works of passion. If legal loopholes are involved, most homebrewers probably won't bother and just make an all new original game ala Space Rocks.

[Keatah]

I never understood how homebrews of games that still retain active rights are AtariAge store. For example the Pac-Man games, Defender Arcade, the 5200 version of Tempest, etc.

 

 

Ho, ho, ho

It's magic, you know

Never believe it's not so

It's magic, you know

Never believe, it's not so..

[bmadgames]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm getting the impression that it might not make that much sense at this point in time

[Keatah]

Probably not. Many people have gotten nowhere trying to cash in on "retro". They didn't understand we're a picky bunch, nor did they realize how small in numbers we are.

 

ADDED:

On the other hand many of those retro guys get hot and bothered over any kind of hardware, especially the cheaper things like adapters, cables, mods, connectors, and other doodads.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Keatah

[sloth-machine]

Probably not. Many people have gotten nowhere trying to cash in on "retro". They didn't understand we're a picky bunch, nor did they realize how small in numbers we are.

 

ADDED:

On the other hand many of those retro guys get hot and bothered over any kind of hardware, especially the cheaper things like adapters, cables, mods, connectors, and other doodads.

Yeah, I personally bought the Atari Flashback 2 just for the controllers, since they are faithful to the original and are also compatible with the original console.

[Shawn]

Yeah, I personally bought the Atari Flashback 2 just for the controllers, since they are faithful to the original and are also compatible with the original console.

 

Flashback 2 controllers are garbage. The screw in joystick poles break and they are far from faithful to the CX-10\40.

[Opry99er]

^^true, but they CAN be used on a 2600. I think that was the poster's point.

 

But yea... they're garbage. I have one and it is total junk.

[sloth-machine]

 

Flashback 2 controllers are garbage. The screw in joystick poles break and they are far from faithful to the CX-10\40.

 

I disagree completely, but that's just me. I never cared for the stock controllers until the flashback ones. I still have several original CX-40's ranging from like new condition to the broken in ones I grew up with. They are too stiff with little leeway, only thing going for them is the rubber grip.

 

I've used Flashback controllers for years and they still result in better scores due to the smoothness of the joystick. Never had one break, or even unscrew unless I forcefully unscrew. How hard do people play?

Edited August 27, 2015 by sloth-machine

[The Eyeball Mural]

At the very least, I am always interested in research into the provenance of intellectual property rights regarding the Atari 2600 software catalog. Given that there doesn't seem to be a concrete answer on the nature and extent of Activision's absorption of Imagic, it is no surprise that tracing the rights of less prominent game producers from back in the day is a substantially foggier quest. If there is a document online, or a thread on this site, which details the ownership through the years of the various 2600-related properties, I would love to be pointed to it.

 

If the aim is to advance the hobby and preserve history, then identifying and purchasing properties would be worthwhile, would it not? As a profit center, why would it be any less profitable than homebrew game production, custom controller manufacture, book publishing or console repair and upgrading? There is not a gold mine to be had from the Atari 2600 hobby today, but opportunities are there to help the hobby, save games from being swallowed by the mists of time, and perhaps make a small amount of money.

 

Also see this:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/227735-data-age/

 

Any thoughts on 2600 hobbyists forming a trust and buying rights to old games, and perhaps recruiting a board of directors from the admins or senior members of this community to direct the trust? Or simply releasing the properties to the public domain as a service to the hobby?

 

My first question for the original poster is: what market value is there in the more obscure games from the old catalog (e.g. Data Age, Spectravision, US Games/Vidtec, Mythicon)? My second: does the answer to the first question align with your own assessment of value, vis-a-vis your entrepreneurial ideas or any altruistic ideas you have for the games in question?

 

I think the whole idea is worth exploring, at least. The worst outcome would be to add to the existing scholarship on the 2600 phenomenon.

[NIKON]

My thought is to aquire the ATARI company from whoever owns it now...that would cover a multitude of games...as far as Activision and Imagic...forget it they are still cashing in on their games.

Edited August 27, 2015 by NIKON

[SIO2]

I disagree completely, but that's just me. I never cared for the stock controllers until the flashback ones. I still have several original CX-40's ranging from like new condition to the broken in ones I grew up with. They are too stiff with little leeway, only thing going for them is the rubber grip.

 

I've used Flashback controllers for years and they still result in better scores due to the smoothness of the joystick. Never had one break, or even unscrew unless I forcefully unscrew. How hard do people play?

I also had good luck with my original CX-40's but I must have a gentle touch.

 

To the OP. I think Atari related retro is especially hard to try to turn any profit on for reasons already stated but also because I think many Atari users are do it their selfers and bargain hunters. Some people will spend years designing something just to prove it can be done. Others I have to wonder if the reason they collect Atari is just because they would never shell out for a new system.

 

It is a great group of people here on AA though.

[Keatah]

I think that anyone who buys the rights to the former Atari should be a gamer and should come from that era and have a strong interest in retrogaming. They would have a better chance of propelling Atari to new heights as opposed to someone with just a degree looking for a potential business opportunity. I can speak from 100% direct hands-on experience in the matter.

 

 

For homebrew carts, I'd rather just give my money to the developer directly, since they are mostly works of passion. If legal loopholes are involved, most homebrewers probably won't bother and just make an all new original game ala Space Rocks.

 

Exactly. I would find a way to compensate the author of a homebrew or emulator directly and cut out the middle man. As a matter of fact I have a list of several here on AA that I feel have contributed well on the technical side of things. To me (right or wrong) that is where it begins. The technical area. Software, hardware, support, answering questions, fixing bugs and problems.. And they have my gratitude now, and will get something more later in the future when the time is right.

[The Usotsuki]

If I had the money, I'd consider it - even though I was from a slightly later era in gaming.

[+Random Terrain]

I think the surviving members of Men At Work should snatch up the rights to every game they can, then make a ton of money suing web sites like AtariAge.

[SIO2]

I think the surviving members of Men At Work should snatch up the rights to every game they can, then make a ton of money suing web sites like AtariAge.

Your post reminded me that I had never heard how that trial turned out. According to what I found online, Larrikin Music won the case but didn't get the 40-60% of total royalties they wanted. It looks like Larrikin got 5% of royalties from the year 2002. Maybe by 2002 Down Under wasn't the hottest song.

 

So, what do you suppose 5% of a remake of an obscure 35 year old game would be worth? Probably not worth the price of the phone call to say "hey this is Collin Hay callin".

Edited August 27, 2015 by SIO2

[bmadgames]

A couple of points:

 

1.I think my first post was a bit misleading. I don't think, as many of you have noted, that there is any big money to be made holding the rights to old games. I do think you could break even though or make a little that it's worth the investment.

 

2. The rights holders that I have been able to track down don't really seem to want big $$ for their IP. Granted, I haven't been in contact with many rights holders, so that may not hold true.

 

3. If anyone is interested in partnering with me on this, PM me.

 

4. Thanks for all the feedback

[Philflound]

My question is has any of the copyrights expired where you can just snatch up the games? Maybe not the major companies, but maybe the smaller ones.

 

Phil

[bmadgames]

Copyrights usually last 75 years except in very limited circumstances.

[Lynxpro]

I never understood how homebrews of games that still retain active rights are AtariAge store. For example the Pac-Man games, Defender Arcade, the 5200 version of Tempest, etc.

 

 

 

.

 

5200 Tempest is a special instance. For one, it isn't homebrew. Second, the current Atari consented to it.

 

Why isn't it homebrew? Because Keithen Hayenga wrote the majority of the code while he was employed at Atari Inc. Due to the industry crash and him being laid off by Tramiel's successor Atari Corp, he didn't get to finish the game. The code was lost/misplaced for decades. Then it was found and he finished coding it and AtariAge released it. Basically, it's a commercial release. It just took longer than Duke Nukem Forever to get finished and released. That and it's a lot better than DNF.

[+bfstats]

Copyrights usually last 75 years except in very limited circumstances.

 

Copyrights on intellectual property expire 75 years AFTER THE DEATH of the rights holder. That's why most classical music is Public Domain.