christo930 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Is there any particular reason DK for the ColecoVision has only 5 levels on the first screen instead of 6 and only 3 levels on the second screen instead of 4? The resolution is 256x192 and the C64 is 160 (with color) x200, only 8 additional pixels (and has all the planes and all the levels in a 16k cart). It doesn't seem that ram or cartridge space held it back. 1K of working ram seems like it's enough for the whole screen to be there and each ramp is made with existing tiles anyway (I assume). Was it just rushed or is it truly a limitation of the machine? I notice even the super versions suffer from this lack of height. Even if it meant shushing everything a bit, I think it would have been a better trade off. Also, when did Atari and it's competitors start putting ram in the cartridges? Burgertime has a full 2k of ram in the cart, you have the 128byte superchip and a bunch of others IIRC. It seems it was either rushed or the CV had some poor design features. IE... 16k Video ram and only 1k work ram seems silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+evg2000 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 go to : http://opcodegames.com/ and on the left side under coming soon select donkey kong, is this more what you are hoping for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo930 Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 go to : http://opcodegames.com/ and on the left side under coming soon select donkey kong, is this more what you are hoping for? It's more of a "why is this?" question. It seems to me there is no reason that all 6 platforms don't exist on the first screen (DK is on the wrong side of the screen because of it) and the second screen (or screen 4 in the JP version) is missing a level too. I don't see what technical limitation could have caused it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 It's not a limitation of the CV, it's a limitation of the programmer or programming team. There could be a lot of reasons for these changes that were made as well as the omissions to the game and being rushed is one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColecoDan Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 your ram questions are because it was expensive back then and they wanted to save as much money as possible in order to make as much profit as possible. They would even lower the chip size in the games and tell game makers they had to lose data so they could put smaller size chips in their games. Remember it isn't some group of guys with love of games making the product. It is business people letting their people do as little as possible as fast as possible to make a game sell. The screen I thought I read somewhere that there wasn't enough screen pixels to fit the extra level or would make stuff look weird but not sure about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 It's more of a "why is this?" question. It seems to me there is no reason that all 6 platforms don't exist on the first screen (DK is on the wrong side of the screen because of it) and the second screen (or screen 4 in the JP version) is missing a level too. I don't see what technical limitation could have caused it. There could be a number of design reasons. The most probable one is that the game's programmer wanted Mario to have ample room to jump over barrels without being hit in the head by other barrels rolling down the girder above him. This simplified the collision detection between Mario and the barrels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Yurkie Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 It would have looked too wide and squashed with more beams. Keep in mind the original game is a vertical monitor and the crt tv was a horizontal monitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo930 Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) I don't think it was a technical limitation caused by resolution as the C64 version uses all 6 floors with a vertical resolution a mere 8 additional vertical pixels. I also think it would have been better if that had been the problem to make the platforms thinner or some other way of allowing all the floors. The missing screen probably is because of rom space and if I am not mistaken, this was the first game made for the Colecovision and so there might have been a learning curve. The marketing strategy of the gaming industry in general back then turned out to be completely wrong and that consumers will eventually get sick and tired of throwing down good money for sub-par products. It is surprising the Colecovision wasn't supported longer than it was. It had a large base installed and was good enough to keep going and give decent conversions of arcade games for a couple more years. The 2600 and Intellivision were supported up until about 1989 or 90. It makes you wonder what they could have accomplished with a few more years of professional game making for the machine and improvements in cartridge design like bigger roms and extra ram on the cart like with the nes and the 2600. Edited September 22, 2015 by christo930 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 VCS has 6 floors on the first level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I'm guessing that it had more to do with the programmer's preference at the time. If you compare the two side by side, you can see how much more empty space the Atari version has on the sides to better mimic the original vertical orientation of the game, where the Coleco version fills those in much better. Perhaps also since this was meant to be a flagship game, not just for gamers, but to sell to retailers, they felt that filling up more of the screen looked better and more impressive. Personally, I would agree with that from a marketing and presentation point of view, but as a gamer I would have preferred to have a more arcade accurate version of the game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Through and through, the DK version that was programmed In-House was limited solely by the Coleco programmer's knowledge of the system (it was the 3rd game developed with Cosmic Avenger by Nuvatec first as a proof of concept for their redesign of the CV and Smurf Rescue second and the first In-House programmed game), the restriction of the game code size seeing as rom chips were expensive (the original version is 24K and in late '82 the code was further optimized down to 16K) and a full 32K rom probably wasn't an option especially considering DK was a pack-in game, the programmer choosing to go with a 4:3 aspect ratio instead of the arcade's 3:4 aspect ratio (Coleco choose this 4:3 aspect ratio on all there arcade ports, see Pixelboy's post above which also discusses aspect ratio for further info, the time constraints placed on the programmer to get the game completed, plans for an updated/enhanced version was probably on the drawing board fairly early on (with or without the never released SGM) in order to capitalize further financially on owning the videogame system rights, etc., etc., etc. The full arcade game or one very close could have been ported to the CV, but it wasn't and we got what we got... which was still a pretty damn amazing game to pack-in with the system especially when you consider what other companies packed-in with their system at the time. A good example is Opcode's unreleased DKA. This version (or demos that I have seen and played) is a perfect arcade port in 3:4 aspect ratio and the version I played only used the additional RAM provided by the Opcode SGM. I'm sure with some very optimized programming and maybe some omissions like the cut-scenes between levels, Coleco could have given us all four levels without losing any platforms and supplied it on a 32K PCB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tkat5200 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Through and through, the DK version that was programmed In-House was limited solely by the Coleco programmer's knowledge of the system (it was the 3rd game developed with Cosmic Avenger by Nuvatec first as a proof of concept for their redesign of the CV and Smurf Rescue second and the first In-House programmed game), the restriction of the game code size seeing as rom chips were expensive (the original version is 24K and in late '82 the code was further optimized down to 16K) and a full 32K rom probably wasn't an option especially considering DK was a pack-in game, the programmer choosing to go with a 4:3 aspect ratio instead of the arcade's 3:4 aspect ratio (Coleco choose this 4:3 aspect ratio on all there arcade ports, see Pixelboy's post above which also discusses aspect ratio for further info, the time constraints placed on the programmer to get the game completed, plans for an updated/enhanced version was probably on the drawing board fairly early on (with or without the never released SGM) in order to capitalize further financially on owning the videogame system rights, etc., etc., etc. The full arcade game or one very close could have been ported to the CV, but it wasn't and we got what we got... which was still a pretty damn amazing game to pack-in with the system especially when you consider what other companies packed-in with their system at the time. A good example is Opcode's unreleased DKA. This version (or demos that I have seen and played) is a perfect arcade port in 3:4 aspect ratio and the version I played only used the additional RAM provided by the Opcode SGM. I'm sure with some very optimized programming and maybe some omissions like the cut-scenes between levels, Coleco could have given us all four levels without losing any platforms and supplied it on a 32K PCB. I must has....Opcodes DKA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozartpc27 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 NIAD is one of the most amazingly informative posters of any message board I post on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 NIAD is one of the most amazingly informative posters of any message board I post on. Thanks... although I do tend to ramble at times and my grammar still leaves a lot to be desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Thanks... although I do tend to ramble at times and my grammar still leaves a lot to be desired. What are you blabbing about? I don't speak mumblish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHW Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 It's a judgement call whether to convert a 3:4 arcade game to a 4:3 port or retain the 3:4 aspect ratio with lower resolution and wasted space. Note that the Pac-Man prototype also switched the playfield from vertical to horizontal. I, for one, think it was the right call to maximize use of the home system and TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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