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Is anyone successfully using bB and VbB on Windows 10?


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#1 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:41 PM

If you are using bB and VbB on Windows 10 and they are working, please post your experiences. Did you have to do anything special? There seems to be 2 people so far that are having trouble using bB and VbB with Windows 10.



#2 Mountain King OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:58 PM

I have been using Windows 10 for about a month with no issues.

 

I am getting this error with my current game:

 

[9/14/2015 6:28:35 PM] bblint found the following errors in islands position test.bas

warning(): Found 30 commands that use end,  and 39 "end" commands.
 
I think it has to do with assigning one sprite to multiple virtual sprites.
 
if _map=0 then player3-4color:
 $C6
 $C8
 $C6
 $C4
 $C2
 $C0
 $F4
 $F4
 $F6
 $F6
 $F6
 $F6
 $F6
 $F6
 $F4
 $F2
end
 if _map= 0 then player3-4:
 %01110110
 %11111101
 %10011110
 %00111111
 %01101101
 %01000100
 %00000100
 %00000010
 %00000010
 %00000010
 %00000010
 %00000010
 %00000010
 %00000110
 %00001100
 %00011000
end
 
The code still compiles, it just flags that warning.

Edited by Mountain King, Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:59 PM.


#3 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:30 PM

Just dumped my bB folder from a Windows 8 machine to a Windows 10 machine without issue.  The only trouble I've had is with some Win 8 or 10 systems that refuse to save the settings for VisualbB.



#4 freshbrood OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:06 PM

Please tell me exactly what editors and compliers I can use on a Windows 8.1, 64bit machine. It's driving me crazy.

 

VisualbB.exe v1.0 will not compile anything for me. I cannot save edits. 

 

2600bas.bat - no clue

 

Jedit- encoding error every damned time. 

 

Please, links to the programs and a step by step how to get them working in a 64bit machine is sorely needed Please.  I have them all in the same folder. 



#5 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:24 PM

Please tell me exactly what editors and compliers I can use on a Windows 8.1, 64bit machine. It's driving me crazy.

 

VisualbB.exe v1.0 will not compile anything for me. I cannot save edits. 

 

2600bas.bat - no clue

 

Jedit- encoding error every damned time. 

 

Please, links to the programs and a step by step how to get them working in a 64bit machine is sorely needed Please.  I have them all in the same folder. 

 

Have you read this:

 

randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-batari-basic-commands.html#gettingstarted

 

 

And have you read this:

 

randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-batari-basic-vbb.html#install_vbb



#6 freshbrood OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:42 AM

Thank you! So far, I can successfully create a new project from scratch, and it seems to compile it properly.. or I can modify their existing sample projects..

 

But how can I open an existing .bin file, edit it, and re-complie it? So far, I can't figure out how to open and edit a .bin file, I can only play it in an emulator.

 

I'm trying to learn by deconstructing and reverse engineering code. I'm not interested in any 3rd party game hackers. Thanks.



#7 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:26 AM

But how can I open an existing .bin file, edit it, and re-complie it? So far, I can't figure out how to open and edit a .bin file, I can only play it in an emulator.


You can't do that with batari Basic. You can play around with .bas files created by other people, but .bin files can't be un-compiled into batari Basic code.



#8 freshbrood OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:24 PM

Random thank you very much for your tips, I really appreciate it.

 

It is really hard to believe that a 30+ year old code doesn't have ANY way to decompile it. 

 

Is there ANY program that would allow me to at least READ the code in a .bin file? Even if I can't edit it, just to see it?



#9 SpiceWare OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:40 PM

It is really hard to believe that a 30+ year old code doesn't have ANY way to decompile it.


Distella is used to disassemble Atari programs.  It'll create a source file compatible with dasm, not bB; after all, that 30+ year old code wasn't written using bB.



#10 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:49 PM

Is there ANY program that would allow me to at least READ the code in a .bin file? Even if I can't edit it, just to see it?


If you're using Stella, you can look at the code for any game:

stella.sourceforge.net/docs/debugger.html

 

 

There are also commented disassemblies online:

 

bjars.com/disassemblies.html

 

atariage.com/2600/archives/combat_asm/index.html



#11 freshbrood OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:06 PM

@Quad, Random, thank you! Hopefully I'll make something decent soon. 

 

One final question.. Does it matter if the source code is compatible with bB or dasm for putting it onto a physical cartridge? 

 

For making a 2600 game that actually plays in a real Atari console on a cartridge, does it matter which program I use? I don't want it ONLY playable in an emulator.

 

 

 

Sorry to inundate you guys with questions. I appreciate your advice.


Edited by freshbrood, Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:15 PM.


#12 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:25 PM

Does it matter if the source code is compatible with bB or dasm for putting it onto a physical cartridge?


You can have a physical cartridge made whether you use batari Basic (compiled) or assembly language.

 

Related page from Atari Age magazine:

 

atariage.com/magazines/magazine_page.html?MagazineID=3&CurrentPage=2



 

For making a 2600 game that actually plays in a real Atari console on a cartridge, does it matter which program I use? I don't want it ONLY playable in an emulator.


People who are serious about making games test their works in progress using Stella, but they also test using something like a Harmony cart.



#13 freshbrood OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:09 PM

RT, thank you for your gracious advice. 

 

Now I would like to know, when using the playercolors and player1colors multicolored sprites kernel, I understand it disables both missiles.

 

It is possible to toggle it on and off? For example, if I wanted to fire a missile, write the entire sprite as a solid color while the missile is enabled? Once missile is disabled, re enable multi sprite colors again?

 

*Caveat. Rom must stay under 4k. 



#14 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:01 AM

Now I would like to know, when using the playercolors and player1colors multicolored sprites kernel, I understand it disables both missiles.
 
Is it possible to toggle it on and off? For example, if I wanted to fire a missile, write the entire sprite as a solid color while the missile is enabled? Once missile is disabled, re enable multi sprite colors again?
 
*Caveat. Rom must stay under 4k.


It's not possible for the average user of batari Basic. I'm sure an assembly language master might tell you that it's possible, but he's probably not going to spend the time trying to make something special for batari Basic since most assembly language masters are too busy (and it doesn't help that some assembly language masters seem to hate batari Basic with a passion).



#15 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:21 AM

RT, thank you for your gracious advice. 
 
Now I would like to know, when using the playercolors and player1colors multicolored sprites kernel, I understand it disables both missiles.
 
It is possible to toggle it on and off? For example, if I wanted to fire a missile, write the entire sprite as a solid color while the missile is enabled? Once missile is disabled, re enable multi sprite colors again?
 
*Caveat. Rom must stay under 4k.


Yeah. You'd need at least the 32k Multikernel Framework to switch between two kernels.
http://atariage.com/...nel-frameworks/

#16 winkdot OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:54 AM

Only issue I've seen under Windows 10 is that it does not save it's options, so each time you run it you have to re-set it up. Other than that I have not had any issues under Windows 10.



#17 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:59 AM

Only issue I've seen under Windows 10 is that it does not save it's options, so each time you run it you have to re-set it up. Other than that I have not had any issues under Windows 10.


You're the only other person to confirm this issue. On one hand I'm glad it's rare.. on the other it's good to know it's not just me :)

#18 freshbrood OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:57 PM

Thank you guys for your tips. I'm trying to make the best looking, most playable game possible, but it must be under 4k. No superchip, just a standard cart. 

 

I really don't understand why you would want 32k+ games on the vcs/2600. The entire appeal to me is trying to squeeze the most you can out of the meager limitations of the 2600 4k cart. Anything more is cheating, and you might as well program for a new console. 

 

That said, is it possible to only stretch *part* of a sprite with the nusize command?

 

For example, I don't want the entire sprite to become twice as wide when I press the button, only 2 lines of it that would represent the arm extending.. How would I do that?



#19 SpiceWare OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:48 PM

I really don't understand why you would want bB games on the vcs/2600.  The entire appeal to me is trying to squeeze the most you can out of the meager limitations of the 2600.  Using BASIC is cheating, and you might as well program for a computer.

 

:ponder:



#20 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:18 PM

I really don't understand why you would want 32k+ games on the vcs/2600.

 

One reason is that batari Basic users are more limited than pure assembly language programmers. For example, batari Basic users can't have the detailed single-height sprites and colorful higher resolution playfields that assembly language programmers are free to create unless we use the DPC+ Kernel.
 
 

 

The entire appeal to me is trying to squeeze the most you can out of the meager limitations of the 2600 4k cart.


Then you should probably be using assembly language.
 


 

The entire appeal to me is trying to squeeze the most you can out of the meager limitations of the 2600 4k cart. Anything more is cheating, and you might as well program for a new console.

 
Some people would consider using a BASIC-like language to be cheating. They might also say that using a modern computer and an emulator to quickly test your works in progress is cheating. You should use the same tools that they had back in the late 1970s or early 1980s if you don't want to cheat.
 
You might want to check out these links:
 
Isn't using more than 4k considered cheating?
 
Isn't it lazy to use batari Basic?
 
Why do people make Atari 2600 games these days?
 


 

That said, is it possible to only stretch *part* of a sprite with the nusize command?

For example, I don't want the entire sprite to become twice as wide when I press the button, only 2 lines of it that would represent the arm extending.. How would I do that?


You can do it if you use assembly language. Check out these two posts:
 
atariage.com/forums/topic/242977-player0-over-more-than-8-bits/?p=3326527
 
atariage.com/forums/topic/242977-player0-over-more-than-8-bits/?p=3326533



#21 freshbrood OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:07 PM

Ok ok I stand corrected. Still, a standard ROM in the late 70's/early 80's for an Atari 2600 was under 4k, am I correct? 

 

Yeah I don't know crap about programming. So a noob like me needs bbasic, I appreciate it. Does using it add much extra to the code memory than programming from pure assembly?

 

I would ultimately like to put what I make on an actual (Harmony?) physical cartridge, that would have the same amount of memory as an original would- basically, whatever I make in 2015 to be something that -could have been made- in 1980. 


Edited by freshbrood, Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:09 PM.


#22 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:25 PM

Ok ok I stand corrected. Still, a standard ROM in the late 70's/early 80's for an Atari 2600 was under 4k, am I correct?

 
Check out the link below and excerpt:
 
2600connection.com/articles/longevity/longevity.html

Atari's Asteroids [1981] was the first game released to use bank-switching, resulting in an 8K ROM. Unfortunately, even with the huge success of Asteroids, Atari was slow to accept the higher cost of using larger ROMs, and finally agreed to after the backlash it received over Pac-Man [1982]. By the following year (1983), all 'A-list' titles used ROMs of at least 8K. Other companies soon learned from Atari's mistake and started using bank-switching by 1983 as well; most companies simply used Atari's method for bank-switching. Activision developed their own method (for Decathlon and Robot Tank), as did Parker Brothers and Tigervision.





Yeah I don't know crap about programming. So a noob like me needs bbasic, I appreciate it. Does using it add much extra to the code memory than programming from pure assembly?


There is extra code and limitations that assembly language programmers don't have.



 

I would ultimately like to put what I make on an actual (Harmony?) physical cartridge, that would have the same amount of memory as an original would- basically, whatever I make in 2015 to be something that -could have been made- in 1980.


Every type of kernel mentioned on the batari Basic page will work using the regular Harmony cart (except the 256k/128k Multikernel Frameworks).



#23 freshbrood OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:31 PM

Hrm. So I can consider a banked 8k rom. Thank you. 



#24 ZackAttack OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:40 PM

Hrm. So I can consider a banked 8k rom. Thank you. 

I think as you become more familiar with programming the system, especially if you go the assembly route, you will find that the true limitation of the system is how often and when a TIA register can be written to. Limiting rom size will mostly just limit the amount of game content you can fit in.

 

Writing a solid 4k game is an admirable goal, but I hope you keep an open mind when it comes to utilizing more complex cart hardware. At the end of the day you can give a 4k and 32k cart to a user and they will only judge them on gameplay and graphics.

 

That said. Welcome to the forum. I'm sure whatever cart technology you work with will be a fun and challenging experience.



#25 freshbrood OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:48 PM

Thanks. I think I'm going to do a port (I know) in Bbasic (I know I know) because I am such a noob, and I want to accelerate the process of learning. Output the best playable >8k game that way, then work on making the same game in assembly. It seems like the easiest way to learn. I wish there were more tutorials. Assembly still seems a bit steep to me right now. 






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