FPGA Based Videogame System

[gulps]

The super gameboy runs the GBCPU off the 21.47727Mz/5 which is kinda close to the nominal 2^22hz. (4.295454MHz vs. 4.194394MHz) This is a difference of around 2.4% faster. This doesn't affect compatibility with any GB games, but it does make the audio pitch slightly higher and the games run slightly faster. The framerates are not synchronized, and the GB still runs slightly slow relative to NTSC. The SGB2 fixes the speed issue by using a custom rate crystal that is 5*2^22Hz (20.97152MHz). The hardware is mostly the same on the 2 but they use the GB pocket chip with built in VRAM vs. the original DMG chip + external VRAM on the SGB 1. The SGB2 also runs slower than the NTSC frame rate.

 

In both cases there is a tear line that slowly moves up? the screen (think it's up) on anything that scrolls horizontally every GB frame. When you run it on a PAL SNES the SGB1 still runs at pretty much the same rate it does on NTSC, except the frame is sent out 50x a second vs. 60 so it is dropping frames. This causes scrolling to be kind of "chunky" as a result.

 

I suspect the SGB1 didn't have a link port due to cost issues, and possibly the 2.4% speed issue but it is synchronous (data + clock) so I don't think it would've mattered too much if it ran slightly fast.

 

 

kevtris, If you finally release the cardtridge adaptor connector for GameBoy (GB) / GameBoy Color (GBC) cartridges at the Analogue Nt Mini don't forget to add if possible the Cable Link port. Will be usable for dual head battles, Pokemon or LSDJ...

 

 

Maybe some people would be interested too over the Game Gear connector cable "Gear-to-Gear" VS Cable.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

 

kevtris, If you finally release the cardtridge adaptor connector for GameBoy (GB) / GameBoy Color (GBC) cartridges

Um, already exists?

 

[gulps]

Um, already exists?

 

 

Yes, Super Game Boy (version 1) can be moded to attach a Cable Link port. And the Super Game Boy v2 has it!

 

 

My friend has one and works very well. But I'm talking about Analogue Nt Mini cartridge adaptors for support other consoles cartridges as kevtris has talked about months ago.

 

 

 

I see at the kevtris video that has a connector. I suppose is for the Cable Link but I don't known...

 

Cart Adapters for the nt mini Project

[cacophony]

Just on principle, I can pretty much guarantee that the Super NT will only work with cartridges (and flash carts) out of the box. What we're all speculating on is IF it will be JB'd and when, and what do we get with that.

Kevtris has made it very clear that he wants to do more than the minimum here (in the context of discussing SNES flash carts), so based on his track record I'd say that you're likely to be wrong. Unless you literally mean out of the box, in which case, sure, we might have to wait a few weeks:

 

... This is why I think having the entire system FPGA'd along with the cartridge part is a better thing for me. I can just eliminate the whole shebang and have the best quality video out right off the bat, along with the best game support that works on modern equipment while having the lowest possible lag.

 

That's my thinking on it anyways. Besides, doing the whole system seems to be a lot more fun and gives a better sense of accomplishment.

Edited November 23, 2017 by cacophony

[Great Hierophant]

The price difference between the SD2SNES and the Super EverDrive with DSP is about $91.00.

The RAM-based loading of games is light-years faster on the sd2snes compared to the flash burning on the Super EverDrive.

 

The number of additional games the sd2snes can run is not that much greater than the Super EverDrive: Mega Man X2, Mega Man X3, Star Ocean (decompressed), Daikaijuu Monogatari II, F1 ROC II: Race of Champions. But many of them as bare cartridges (or the price you would pay for a translation) would quickly add up to more than $91.

[Guspaz]

The everdrive is slow to change games, not load games. If you play the same game tomorrow as today, it will load fast because it's already in flash. The price differential between the SED and the SD2SNES used to be much larger, IIRC (I may be confusing currency exchange rates), so the value proposition isn't quite the same as before. Not everybody cares about the extra games that the SD2SNES supports: perhaps some people would be fine spending $30-40 on the SFC versions of X2/X3 instead of $91 on the SD2SNES.

 

Personally, I'd rather have the SD2SNES, because it's the best solution, the most robust solution, and the solution with the best compatibility, but I don't think the enhancement chip support should be oversold. SA-1 and SFX support is hypothetical. It does not support them. No meaningful work has been done to support them in the 5+ years the SD2SNES has been in production. It may never support them. Don't buy or tell people to buy the SD2SNES because of the SA-1 and SFX. It will be nice if it eventually does support them but it cannot be guaranteed.

[Kismet]

The everdrive is slow to change games, not load games. If you play the same game tomorrow as today, it will load fast because it's already in flash. The price differential between the SED and the SD2SNES used to be much larger, IIRC (I may be confusing currency exchange rates), so the value proposition isn't quite the same as before. Not everybody cares about the extra games that the SD2SNES supports: perhaps some people would be fine spending $30-40 on the SFC versions of X2/X3 instead of $91 on the SD2SNES.

 

Personally, I'd rather have the SD2SNES, because it's the best solution, the most robust solution, and the solution with the best compatibility, but I don't think the enhancement chip support should be oversold. SA-1 and SFX support is hypothetical. It does not support them. No meaningful work has been done to support them in the 5+ years the SD2SNES has been in production. It may never support them. Don't buy or tell people to buy the SD2SNES because of the SA-1 and SFX. It will be nice if it eventually does support them but it cannot be guaranteed.

The SD2SNES has the most potential to actually support additional chips or even theoretical ones. The ones it supports so far are the DSP type chips, not the most complex CPU's, and realistically, it is large enough to do the SFX or SA1, but might not happen. Those games might require an as-yet undeveloped followup. The reason it doesn't support it has more to do with cost than anything else, and if you buy a SD2SNES currently, it would already cost more than the Super NT, depending on exchange rates.

 

As it is, simply there is more value with the SD2SNES, and if and when something supports all the chips, that can supplant it, that bridge can be crossed then. Till then that's the only reason the chip carts cost $300 on eBay, while most others cost $10-$40.

 

 

Kevtris has made it very clear that he wants to do more than the minimum here (in the context of discussing SNES flash carts), so based on his track record I'd say that you're likely to be wrong. Unless you literally mean out of the box, in which case, sure, we might have to wait a few weeks:

 

 

Literately out of the box. That's the same as how the NT Mini is sold. As I mentioned earlier in the thread and was rudely shouted down earlier. Any JB work would obviously come later, and even if Analogue decided not to support it this time, wouldn't stop anyone from JB'ing it anyways. Kevtris is not the only guy who knows how to program a FPGA either, but why duplicate the work. Short of some hardcore "everything must be open source or it's evil" type of people that you frequently encounter online when you don't GPL software.

[kevtris]

 

Yes, Super Game Boy (version 1) can be moded to attach a Cable Link port. And the Super Game Boy v2 has it!

 

 

My friend has one and works very well. But I'm talking about Analogue Nt Mini cartridge adaptors for support other consoles cartridges as kevtris has talked about months ago.

 

 

 

I see at the kevtris video that has a connector. I suppose is for the Cable Link but I don't known...

 

Cart Adapters for the nt mini Project

yes, that is the link cable port. Unfortunately, GB and game gear both use custom cart connectors so these adapters probably aren't something I personally could make many of without destroying gameboys in the process. There are replacement GB connectors (for one of the newer systems AFAIR but still compatible) but there's no link port replacement connector that I know of. Maybe 4 player adapters? I don't know.

[Guspaz]

You could always make them with one of the after market gameboy cartridge connectors and just leave the link port unpopulated. Most people won't use it, the few people who really want to can source their own connector.

[gulps]

yes, that is the link cable port. Unfortunately, GB and game gear both use custom cart connectors so these adapters probably aren't something I personally could make many of without destroying gameboys in the process. There are replacement GB connectors (for one of the newer systems AFAIR but still compatible) but there's no link port replacement connector that I know of. Maybe 4 player adapters? I don't know.

 

Great kevtris! Your mind is always ahead of us!

 

No problem! We can use a Din-5 o Mini-din-5 connector or another (you decide ) and only we have to cut a cable link to change one connector side

[gulps]

I suppose this will work for the GB / GBC. But if is hard to find in quantities we can buy and solder it at our own

 

 

GBA/GBC/MGB link port (2$)

 

 

Game Gear connector "Gear-to-Gear" VS Cable seems harder to find. But a "din" connector could resolve this

[Tusecsy]

A) It only supports 4 more retail games, as you said msu-1 is used for fan hacks and some of the soundtracks and fmv stuff that has come out for it is simply amazing (okay fmv is still fmv and looks like garbage but A Link to the Past with fmv cutscenes is just WTF). Also the Bs-X games.

B) The SD2Snes can be updated in the future to support the Sa1 and SuperFX chips.

C) The build quality of the Super ED is not as good as the SD2Snes and may shorten its own lifespan or that of your snes: https://db-electronics.ca/2017/07/05/the-dangers-of-3-3v-flash-in-retro-consoles/#Super_Everdrive

 

Overall: To anyone looking to buy a snes flashcart today I would wait for the Super Nt because it costs less than the SD2Snes on its own and has hdmi out and a bunch of amazing quality improvements and I'm 99% sure it will make the SD2Snes obsolete. If I'm wrong then I would strongly suggest the SD2Snes over the Super Everdrive because the handful of games it can support in the future alone makes up for the cost difference so the awesome fan hacks and Bs-x games are just icing on the cake.

 

A) two of those games are mega man x2 and x3 though, very expensive. if you don't care about those 2 (or the loading times), the super everdrive is a fine option.

B) the sd2snes will never be updated, it's a pipe dream. guy got lazy and there's really no need to since he has no competition.

C) build quality of the super ED is great. that article you linked is full of lies such as saying a bunch of everdrives don't have ground leads, when in fact they do. there is actually no real world proof it has ever or will ever damage any system, just a lot of junk science and half-truths. krikzz himself debunked it with a youtube video.

 

But yes the super nt makes all of it obsolete imo, unless you absolutely have to have analog outs. And the inevitable super nt deluxe will probably come out about 9-12 months down the line anyway.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Tusecsy

[Wolf_]

A) two of those games are mega man x2 and x3 though, very expensive. if you don't care about those 2 (or the loading times), the super everdrive is a fine option.

B) the sd2snes will never be updated, it's a pipe dream. guy got lazy and there's really no need to since he has no competition.

C) build quality of the super ED is great. that article you linked is full of lies such as saying a bunch of everdrives don't have ground leads, when in fact they do. there is actually no real world proof it has ever or will ever damage any system, just a lot of junk science and half-truths. krikzz himself debunked it with a youtube video.

 

But yes the super nt makes all of it obsolete imo, unless you absolutely have to have analog outs. And the inevitable super nt deluxe will probably come out about 9-12 months down the line anyway.

A) Those games, the games it can support in the future, the Msu audio enhanced games, the Bs-x games, the better build quality, the instant loading, the auto region patching, the real time clock, and the increased max rom & memory size so you can run more complex homebrew/hacked games add up to be one hell of a difference well worth the $90.

B) You're talking out your ass. The last time it was updated in was in May 2017 and before that in October 2016. Updates are still coming out for it and while they are not the fastest because he works on so many projects at once the updates are still coming.

C) If you actually believe that then you're just wrong. He shows the stuff he is talking about in the article and explains it why it matters. If you're going to call something that was just proven to you a lie you're going to need to provide proof it is incorrect or else the only person lying is you. Even Kevtris commented on how the article was correct and how he was curious about some of the same things regarding ED build quality.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Wolf_

[Tusecsy]

While software companies usually own the IP of anything you work on while working there, I think Kevtris is in a unique position to negotiate more favorable licensing. His skills and specific interest in this niche field, along with his proven track record of actually completing cores is probably rare enough that Analogue would be willing to license his core rather than owning the IP outright.

 

Also, now that Kevtris is involved with Analogue in a more official capacity, I can see them going through his other already completed cores to use as the basis for future bespoke consoles. Specifically Gameboy/Gameboy Color and Atari 2600. I would definitely buy a portable FPGA-boy with a GB/C cart slot backlit screen (perhaps at double the native resolution), and hopefully jailbreak firmware to add other portable cores like Game Gear, Supervision, Gamate, Game King etc. as well as any cores that would fit and work with the simple Gameboy style controls. The FPGA could potentially be smaller if the screen is only 480p, so less space for the scaling would be necessary.

 

You sir are a very smart man, haven't heard this idea before and seems like a no-brainer. It is highly likely the next product from Analogue will be an all-in-one portable FPGA, and boy oh boy will it sell like hotcakes.

[Tusecsy]

double post please delete

Edited November 24, 2017 by Tusecsy

[Tusecsy]

A) Those games, the games it can support in the future, the Msu audio enhanced games, the Bs-x games, the better build quality, the instant loading, the auto region patching, the real time clock, and the increased max rom & memory size so you can run more complex homebrew/hacked games add up to be one hell of a difference well worth the $90.

B) You're talking out your ass. The last time it was updated in was in May 2017 and before that in October 2016. Updates are still coming out for it and while they are not the fastest because he works on so many projects at once the updates are still coming.

C) If you actually believe that then you're just wrong. He shows the stuff he is talking about in the article and explains it why it matters. If you're going to call something that was just proven to you a lie you're going to need to provide proof it is incorrect or else the only person lying is you. Even Kevtris commented on how the article was correct and how he was curious about some of the same things regarding ED build quality.

A) sd2snes or super nt....hmmm tough choice. most of those features you mention are irrelevant to most people, compatibility with games people actually want to play, and speed are all most people will care about. i own an sd2snes btw...

B) the last significant update was years ago when msu-1 etc was added. super-fx and sa1 are pipe dreams, but keep on dreamin.

C) again, he lied about ground leads left and right, and claimed he owned everdrives and tested them when he obviously didn't, if you wanna believe an article full of lies go ahead. i'll believe krikzz, who debunked it with an actual cart and a simple voltage test, you know, actual real-world proof.

 

"Original topic about this question were accidentally removed, but sense of this topic it two words sound like that: Rene's sensational "research" were based on wrong numbers, by some reason he decide that CMOS device current limits is 5.2mA per pin, but JEDEC specification clearly says that CMOS device current rating is 20mA. Old everdrive carts without level translators has around 7mA load per pin, and this is notably less than max acceptable 20mA, as we can see.

I say it to Rene in comments to his article, but he just ignored it. Anyone can read my comment in his article here: https://db-electronics.ca/2017/07/13/ac-analysis-of-clamping-diode-effect-in-5v-to-3-3v-mismatch/"

 

Now that's what you call a thorough debunking!

Edited November 24, 2017 by Tusecsy

[Sneakyturtleegg]

A) Those games, the games it can support in the future, the Msu audio enhanced games, the Bs-x games, the better build quality, the instant loading, the auto region patching, the real time clock, and the increased max rom & memory size so you can run more complex homebrew/hacked games add up to be one hell of a difference well worth the $90.

B) You're talking out your ass. The last time it was updated in was in May 2017 and before that in October 2016. Updates are still coming out for it and while they are not the fastest because he works on so many projects at once the updates are still coming.

C) If you actually believe that then you're just wrong. He shows the stuff he is talking about in the article and explains it why it matters. If you're going to call something that was just proven to you a lie you're going to need to provide proof it is incorrect or else the only person lying is you. Even Kevtris commented on how the article was correct and how he was curious about some of the same things regarding ED build quality.

 

Concur.

[Wolf_]

haven't heard this idea before... It is highly likely the next product from Analogue will be an all-in-one portable FPGA

 

There is a difference between liking an idea/how well you think it will do, and if that makes it likely or not. Making it "likely" would mean you had some evidence to support that analogue plans on making it... And you've ruled out that possibility because IN THE SAME SENTENCE you say it is "highly likely" you also say you've never heard of it before!

 

A) sd2snes or super nt....hmmm tough choice

B) the last significant update was years ago when msu-1 etc was added. super-fx and sa1 are pipe dreams, but keep on dreamin.

C) again, he lied about ground leads left and right, and claimed he owned everdrives and tested them when he obviously didn't, if you wanna believe an article full of lies go ahead. i'll believe krikzz, who debunked it with an actual cart and a simple voltage test, you know, actual real-world proof.

 

"Original topic about this question were accidentally removed, but sense of this topic it two words sound like that: Rene's sensational "research" were based on wrong numbers, by some reason he decide that CMOS device current limits is 5.2mA per pin, but JEDEC specification clearly says that CMOS device current rating is 20mA. Old everdrive carts without level translators has around 7mA load per pin, and this is notably less than max acceptable 20mA, as we can see.

I say it to Rene in comments to his article, but he just ignored it. Anyone can read my comment in his article here: https://db-electronics.ca/2017/07/13/ac-analysis-of-clamping-diode-effect-in-5v-to-3-3v-mismatch/"

 

Now that's what you call a thorough debunking!

A) Did you even read my post? Because I clearly said that I suggest waiting for the Super Nt before buying a SD2Snes and that I simply thought it was a far better product than the Super ED.

B) You said the product had never been updated. Now you are saying the last update that added a fx chip capable of playing cd quality audio soundtracks on a machine that previously used midi tunes and put fmv cutscenes on the snes wasn't a big enough update? https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

C) So you'll believe Krikzz, the person whose product you are saying not to buy over Kevtris, the person whose product you are suggesting, as well as every electrical engineer who is a member of the retroroundtable?

Edited November 24, 2017 by Wolf_

[Tusecsy]

 

There is a difference between liking an idea/how well you think it will do, and if that makes it likely or not. Making it "likely" would mean you had some evidence to support that analogue plans on making it... And you've ruled out that possibility because IN THE SAME SENTENCE you say it is "highly likely" you also say you've never heard of it before!

 

A) Did you even read my post? Because I clearly said that I suggest waiting for the Super Nt before buying a SD2Snes and that I simply thought it was a far better product than the Super ED.

B) You said the product had never been updated. Now you are saying the last update that added a fx chip capable of playing cd quality audio soundtracks on a machine that previously used midi tunes and put fmv cutscenes on the snes wasn't a big enough update? https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

C) So you'll believe Krikzz, the person whose product you are saying not to buy over Kevtris, the person whose product you are suggesting, as well as every electrical engineer who is a member of the retroroundtable?

 

how'd I know you'd be the type of person who watches anime...

[Wolf_]

 

how'd I know you'd be the type of person who watches anime...

What an excellent response. Not only did you contribute nothing of value to the discussion failing to refute any points I made, continue any discourse, or doing anything that could possibly have been productive but now evidently people that watch anime have a specific "type" you apparently don't think favorably of?

 

So you're not just void of any beneficial contributions you're also a bigot.

[Tusecsy]

What an excellent response. Not only did you contribute nothing of value to the discussion failing to refute any points I made, continue any discourse, or doing anything that could possibly have been productive but now evidently people that watch anime have a specific "type" you apparently don't think favorably of?

 

So you're not just void of any beneficial contributions you're also a bigot.

 

No no, you get me wrong. I love anime and am glad you're a fan too!

[Kismet]

yes, that is the link cable port. Unfortunately, GB and game gear both use custom cart connectors so these adapters probably aren't something I personally could make many of without destroying gameboys in the process. There are replacement GB connectors (for one of the newer systems AFAIR but still compatible) but there's no link port replacement connector that I know of. Maybe 4 player adapters? I don't know.

 

The GB/GBC/GBA all use the same cart connector. The only difference between the GB/GBC and the GBA cart edge is the cart depth. When you place a GB cart in a GBA it sticks out of the GBA/DS about an inch. You know this obviously. As for the link connectors, the SGB2, Gameboy Pocket, Gameboy Light, all use a second generation connector, and the third generation devices (eg GBA/GB Player) can accept the second generation connectors. So it might be easier to acquire the third generation connectors from broken GBA non-backlit devices that I'm sure there's still plenty of them out there gathering dust.

 

edit: Apparently AGB-005 (the official cable that allows 4 player play) is hard to find, though I see a few of them on eBay from 2-20$.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Kismet

[gulps]

I suppose this will work for the GB / GBC. But if is hard to find in quantities we can buy and solder it at our own

 

 

GBA/GBC/MGB link port (2$)

 

 

Game Gear connector "Gear-to-Gear" VS Cable seems harder to find. But a "din" connector could resolve this

 

 

I found more cheaper here: GBA/GBC Link Port (1$)

 

 

For the GameBoy (GB) "classic grey" connection we can use a Tomee 2 Player Link Cable for GBC/ GBP/ GB (9$). If this don't work as Analogue Nt Mini (GBA link socket) <-to-> GB connection we can cut and solder it!

 

 

The solution explained by Kismet for the cartridge socket will work

[NE146]

Everything else aside, the instant loading is what it's all about when talking SD2SNES vs. Super Everdrive. The fact that the SE takes "minutes" to load a game is the biggest elephant in the room at least to me.. because what do people often like to do with flashcarts? Yes, jump from game to game.

[cacophony]

Everything else aside, the instant loading is what it's all about when talking SD2SNES vs. Super Everdrive. The fact that the SE takes "minutes" to load a game is the biggest elephant in the room at least to me.. because what do people often like to do with flashcarts? Yes, jump from game to game.

My SE takes ~10-30 seconds to load a new rom (depending on the rom size)