FPGA Based Videogame System

[Jakir]

So 3 frames of lag is the inaccuracy you mean? I though accuracy was how the system process the games. I didn#t hear bob say there were any major inaccuracies with the Supa Retron. I have watched this review you linked me about 3 times already. Yeah, it has 3 frames of lag, which is terrible, and smears the image because of poor image processing. It still outputs HDMI and composite at the same time, and seems to work just fine out of a CRT. So if this is all you can say, I guess we just don't agree on what accuracy means.

 

Can you find any game the Supa Retron isn't compatible with?

 

What is so bad about the ASIC in these SNES clones?

 

I'm not even saying these consoles are any good. I am just legitimately asking, because I don't know the answer to these questions.

 

But please, just answer if you have a concrete response to the question being made. This is borderline off-topic here, and I don't want to derail the discussion. What isn't off topic, is the fact that claiming "total accuracy" and "Absolute accuracy" on a system that can't even properly play all games in the licensed library is false advertisement. That has nothing to do with Kevtris and his amazing work on the Super NT. That has to do with Analogue and their PR people. So when someone comes in here, and doesn't understand why the system doesn't replicate the Super Nintendo's behaviour, when it was claimed it was total and completely accurate, it's easy to understand where that comes from. It comes from a correct understanding of Analogue's own claims. Claims that are false. I don't even understand what there is to discuss about it.

3 frames of lag is inaccurate as the original console had virtually 0 lag, this discrepancy between two things is the definition of "inaccurate". It also renders a few of the tougher games with extremely tight reaction time windows virtually unplayable.

 

Once again out of the entire library of games available only a select few are currently having any issue at all, let alone issues that make them unplayable on the Super Nt, and it is still the first month after release. Most product launches experience hiccups and it is completely unreasonable to expect Kevtris to test every single snes game every time he updated his code as that would take literal lifetimes for a single person to accomplish. The situation was always going to be that early adopters would find some bugs and Kevtris would update the firmware. The fact that there are so few bugs and he is patching them so quickly is something to be praised. After the first month or two have passed I would be very surprised if we saw more than the occasional legit bug report.

 

As for displaying to a crt Analogue is already in development of a dac that will allow this and they claim it will run at the native snes clock speed. I have no clue how they plan to accomplish this but I hope that option becomes available via hdmi as well.

[romevi]

Yes, you're right, it's not a big deal. However it's interesting since yours seems to be one of a few (or the only one?) doing this, so far.

 

 

Wait, I thought others were reporting this, no? That's why I chimed in. I thought it was a failsafe to prevent damaging the console.

 

Have you tried a different power supply and cable just to check?

 

No, but I can tonight or tomorrow.

[kwnage]

 

I thought it was a failsafe to prevent damaging the console.

 

Well if it was, mine and others would be doing it, too.

[romevi]

Well if it was, mine and others would be doing it, too.

 

Ah, okay.

I'll double-check tonight. So far I've been playing SMW almost exclusively (never finished it and I want to now), and I'm pretty sure it's been happening with that game most, if not all, the time. Noticed it when I had the 8bitdo controller plugged in, then toyed with the other controllers.

 

I'll post later when I've tried it with the game running, the various controllers I have, and a change of the power cable.

[trismegistus]

 

 

Wait, I thought others were reporting this, no? That's why I chimed in. I thought it was a failsafe to prevent damaging the console.

 

 

No, but I can tonight or tomorrow.

I've had this happen too, when attempting to unplug the 8bitdo receiver and plug in a wired controller because the battery was low. I can't be certain that it was the direct result of unplugging the receiver, though, because I've also had it die as a result of just moving/touching the console (presumably because the cartridge wiggled). It didn't seem to lose power completely (LED was still on), but I lost the HDMI signal and had to power cycle to get it back.

[Zorlac]

What version of HDMI is in the Super Nt?
Is the spec version upgradable via software for future possible features like Variable Refresh Rate?

[CZroe]

 

Also weird that "font" has a checkbox next to it, considering it's not a toggle. Seems like maybe something got screwed up with that menu.

Guess I wasn’t the only one to notice that. Also, the Font sub menu checkboxes show extra pixels of the hi-light color when hi-lighted.

 

Seriously? Thats really interesting, I'd guess that the chinese factory nintendo had produce their chips didn't hold the design close to the vest.

If thats really true then the ASIC clones are as accurate as a 1-chip console (minus sound? that a different chip?) but are still considered garbage due to how they handle video? If you want analog you might as well just get the real thing, I say that as someone who plans on buying the DAC, but will admit that the vast majority of the "clone" market wants hdmi, which the clones that aren't the Super NT do terribly. I wonder why Analogue didn't just take the accurate 1-chip ASIC that already exists and get Kevtris to do the video? Maybe you can't do the video properly regardless if the ASIC is already outputting analog, so you'd need to reverse engineer and redesign the ASIC at which point we're back to using an FPGA and might as well reverse engineer an actual SNES.

 

tldr I think the other clones are considered shit due to bad video/audio rather than inaccuracies in the games themselves.

Exactly. Kevtris basically had to make his own FPGA PPU for the Hi-Def NES since you couldn’t get digital video any other way. Doing similar on the SNES would be a nightmare due to variants with two PPUs, a combined PPU, and a PPU+CPU, not to mention desoldering and interfacing with QFP packages. The only reasonable thing to do was to recreate the whole SNES in FPGA, which he did. [emoji4]

 

Yeah, I think Nintendo had the wrong partner for developing and manufacturing the 1chip... unless giving them access to the design was part of the deal (the SNES was at the end of its life and it may have had a clause for the partner to recoup costs if it doesn’t sell well or something). There’s a reason people say it’s more of “an official clone” than the previous versions of the SNES. First I recall seeing SNES clones was the Tristar 64 and the GameStation (SNES + CD-ROM backup unit with no cart slot). I always thought the GameStation was from UFO but others tell me it was Bung in disguise after being driven underground from lawsuits and import restrictions.

 

Bung actually made the Naki GameSaver+ (Bung-labeled chips inside). Makes sense: The GAME Doctor/Professor SF backup units had save states and slo-mo too.

 

 

Yes, we'll have to disagree then. Accuracy is about how it processes the games and controller input. It's a video game system not a media player! Achieving identical (or at the very least close to original) input lag is probably the single most important aspect of system accuracy as far as I'm concerned.

Then it’s important to distinguish input lag from display latency. With wired controllers, the clones have identical input latency to the real console.

 

 

I think it's perfectly fine to go after Analogue for false advertisement as you are doing. However, you really should research each and every other clone console if you're going to be so bold. Literally every single alternative clone console has some sort of audio or video flaw and simply is not up to par with this console, even since Day 1. Most people haven't even realized the obscure bugs that are being caught up to this point even.

 

They have made a claim for "Total Accuracy" indeed. However they did not state a timetable at all for such a claim -- you should not have expected this out of the box. If you wanted to win on the argument that the Super NT had false advertisement out of the box, you've won on that front. However (and more importantly), you should realize that Analogue/Kevtris is remaining fully committed to stamping out all bugs as they appear and are reported. They are actively striving towards the goal of total accuracy. This is definitely something that rival companies have never committed to at all up to this point (as someone else has mentioned in this thread).

 

If you are an owner of this console you should be happy and pleased that there is someone very hard at work and behind the scenes to please the user base at all, instead of making noise about something a PR team put together. You're literally one of two people making a kerfuffle over a PR statement. Everyone else is too busy enjoying the console.

It’s also important to note that even if it was perfectly accurate it was impossible to know until they had thousands of eyeballs and memories turned onto it. We only know what we know thanks to crowd-sourcing. Asking them to delay the product to fix things they don’t even know about to make their claims is basically asking them to never release it. But let’s say that they did continue the hunt for years while keeping the product unreleased... Considering that they didn’t even know about these issues (no one did), how would they know when they’ve discovered and fixed them all? Keep digging for years longer? Should they hold off release indefinitely at the expense of all users in fear that someone else discovers some obscure issue or should they accelerate the process by taking reports from users and quickly correcting those issue?

 

I think they did it the right way. It could take years to discover and fix the issues that have already been discovered and fixed if they did it all exclusively through internal testing. The Super Nt wouldn’t exist any other way. The accuracy was beyond reasonable for the claim in my book, since “accuracy” is, ironically, pretty vague anyway. “Total accuracy” for inputs? “Total accuracy” for color reproduction? “Total accuracy” for math?

Edited February 27, 2018 by CZroe

[SegaSnatcher]

 

I'm not sure I'd call those done right (three revisions a piece), but a licensed clone is at least held responsible for problems.

 

Unlicensed clones, are simply made to scam people out of their money, anyone selling them, assumes 100% of the risk, as the (chip) manufacturer is not going to be in business very long. Which is why Hyperkin (Retron) and Cybergadget (Retrofreak) both switched to SoC's and then stole open source emulators to run them.

 

This is where the AVS, NT Mini and Super NT simply beat the ASIC clones at their own game. Sure they're not as cheap, but the FPGA implementations can actually fix bugs.

They are still considered some of the best implementations of original hardware via an ASIC. Also. I was pretty sure the Flashback 2 only saw two revisions, unless you are counting the Flashback 2+ as well.

[Sho]

Guess I wasn’t the only one to notice that. Also, the Font sub menu checkboxes show extra pixels of the hi-light color when hi-lighted.

 

Exactly. Kevtris basically had to make his own FPGA PPU for the Hi-Def NES since you couldn’t get digital video any other way. Doing similar on the SNES would be a nightmare due to variants with two PPUs, a combined PPU, and a PPU+CPU, not to mention desoldering and interfacing with QFP packages. The only reasonable thing to do was to recreate the whole SNES in FPGA, which he did. [emoji4]

 

Yeah, I think Nintendo had the wrong partner for developing and manufacturing the 1chip... unless giving them access to the design was part of the deal (the SNES was at the end of its life and it may have been a clause for it not selling well or something). There’s a reason people say it’s more of “an official clone” than the previous versions of the SNES. First I recall seeing SNES clones was the Tristar 64 and the GameStation (SNES + CD-ROM backup unit with no cart slot). I always thought the GameStation was from UFO but others tell me it was Bung in disguise after being driven underground from lawsuits and import restrictions.

 

Bung actually made the Naki GameSaver+ (Bung-labeled chips inside). Makes sense: The GAME Doctor/Professor SF backup units had save states and slo-mo too.

 

Then it’s important to distinguish input lag from display latency. With wires controllers, the clones have identical input latency to the real console.

 

It’s also important to note that even if it was perfectly accurate it was impossible to know until they had thousands of eyeballs and memories turned onto it. We only know what we know thanks to crowd-sourcing. Asking them to delay the product to fix things they don’t even know about to make their claims is basically asking them to never release it. But let’s say that they did continue the hunt for years while keeping the product unreleased... Considering that they didn’t even know about these issues (no one did), how would they know when they’ve discovered and fixed them all? Keep digging for years longer? Should they hold off release indefinitely at the expense of all users in fear that someone else discovers some obscure issue or should they accelerate the process by taking reports from users and quickly correcting those issue?

 

I think they did it the right way. It could take years to discover and fix the issues that have already been discovered and fixed if they did it all exclusively through internal testing. The Super Nt wouldn’t exist any other way. The accuracy was beyond reasonably for the claim in my book, since “accuracy” is, ironically, pretty vague anyway. “Total accuracy” for inputs? “Total accuracy” for color reproduction? “Total accuracy” for math?

 

I agree on all points. It's pretty nonsensical & foolish to believe that any clone console could be released without any sort of bug or flaws in the system, especially if the method of reverse engineering is by probing it's internal functions (I assume some sort of black box analysis). With that said, the idea of total accuracy comes as a promise that the company themselves strive to achieve, and they've been proving that within the last few weeks of the first run's release (and even prior to it's release as MLiG and other outlets have been mentioning).

 

As far as the definition of "accuracy" -- for most outside of the absolutely hardcore retro enthusiasts, the idea of accuracy will go as far as being able to play this old games in exactly the same ways that they have in the last 25+ years. How the games looked and felt when they were children, only up-scaled for an HD era. From the looks of how the retro community has been going nuts in almost every avenue, Kevtris & Analogue hit this out of the park.

[leods]

I am sorry about what I said. I really shouldn't have said it. The Super NT is great, and as good as anyone could expect. I ask you please to not let my unreasonable negativity derail the conversation. Let's please stop talking about this. By bad. Let's move on.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

The locking mechanism is a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't. My CPU-GPM-02 model has the locking mechanism. Despite that I wish the Super NT had a mechanical Eject mechanism/grip rather than this death-grip on the cart. This is the one thing that the NES cart design almost did right. What would have been right (IMO) would have been to make it so that when the cartridge is inserted, it pushes down on the eject levers (like it does on a real SNES), but instead pushes the eject button up by the same distance the cartridge went down. So when you push the eject button, it pushes it with enough force to pop it out of the slot, and when there's no cart, it's flush with the console. That would make the "power button" locking mechanism disengaged by the eject button, thus turning it off if the eject button was pressed.

 

Though it would have been an even easier engineering thing to simply do what we do with hot-pluggable devices now and stagger the ground/power pins so that the ground pins always make contact first, and voltage last, so that the power is turned on once the cart starts pulling power. Then if it's pulled out while the power is on, it doesn't zap the sram or flash.

My SNES came with Super Mario World + Allstars and is a one chip model. I actually ordered a lockout mechanism from NES repair shop because I thought it was missing somehow. So one could argue I have an extremely rare SNES combination: A 1-chip SNES that still has the cart lockout intact!

[CZroe]

My SNES came with Super Mario World + Allstars and is a one chip model. I actually ordered a lockout mechanism from NES repair shop because I thought it was missing somehow. So one could argue I have an extremely rare SNES combination: A 1-chip SNES that still has the cart lockout intact!

I didn’t even know about it when I got my 1993 SNES and I was confused as to why they redesigned the cartridges like that. I recall that some other neighborhood kids were routinely yanking the cartridge out with the power on because it was how they ended every play session. It always grated my nerves because I was the kid who read the manual and knew you weren’t supposed to do that (guess they ignored the sticker). I immediately thought of them when I learned that the lock was intended to prevent warranty repairs for blown fuses and I wonder if they ever blew one (if anyone could... they could). Around 1995 or 1996 I got a junk SNES that had the locking mechanism, which I noticed right away since I was scrutinizing/troubleshooting it.

 

I’ve fixed a ton of SNES consoles since then and yet I still have that one... and it still doesn’t work. Only thing I haven’t tried is a PPU/CPU swap (probably CPU). Definitely not the APU or RF box or fuse or any of the other things I’ve tested/swapped for known-good parts.

Edited February 27, 2018 by CZroe

[Kismet]

I didn’t even know about it when I got my 1993 SNES and I was confused as to why they redesigned the cartridges like that. I recall that some other neighborhood kids were routinely yanking the cartridge out with the power on because it was how they ended every play session. It always grated my nerves because I was the kid who read the manual and knew you weren’t supposed to do that (guess they ignored the sticker). I immediately thought of them when I learned that the lock was intended to prevent warranty repairs for blown fuses and I wonder if they ever blew one (if anyone could... they could). Around 1995 or 1996 I got a junk SNES that had the locking mechanism, which I noticed right away since I was scrutinizing/troubleshooting it.

 

I’ve fixed a ton of SNES consoles since then and yet I still have that one... and it still doesn’t work. Only thing I haven’t tried is a PPU/CPU swap (probably CPU). Definitely not the APU or RF box or fuse or any of the other things I’ve tested/swapped for known-good parts.

 

I'm pretty sure they redesigned the carts first, and based on what I have sitting on my desk:

13 August 1991: Super Mario World: Can't eject (F16/B42)

November 21, 1991: The Legend of Zelda: A link to the past: can't eject (F27/B10)

26 March 1993: Star Fox: Can't eject (WF-11/WB-9)

July 14, 1993: Mario All stars: Can eject (F(A)-30/B-53)

October 4, 1995: SMW2: Yoshi's Island (WF(A)-7/WB-5)

So just based on production time tables, they had to have redesigned them sometime after Star Fox but before Mario All Stars, or that was simply when they exhausted inventory. Keeping in mind that the Super FX cart back shell is different from the non-expansion chip shells.

 

I think the numbers on the plastic might be suggestive that each game had new shells made, even though they were identical. The Japanese SFC games appear to have this same numbering as well.

 

Ah, F(A) are the redesigned fronts. WF are the Expansion chip front and WF(A) are the expansion chip front with the redesign, WB is the expansion chip back.

 

All of the games above except Yoshi's Island are games I've had since they were new. So I don't really see any logic with the actual numbers on the shells other than perhaps the production run.

 

Super Mario RPG (WF(A)-7/WB-16)

FFIII (F(A)-40)/B-2)

DKC (F(A)-16)/B-53)

DKC2 (F(A)-50/B - 8 )

Edited February 27, 2018 by Kismet

[CZroe]

 

I'm pretty sure they redesigned the carts first, and based on what I have sitting on my desk:

13 August 1991: Super Mario World: Can't eject (F16/B42)

November 21, 1991: The Legend of Zelda: A link to the past: can't eject (F27/B10)

26 March 1993: Star Fox: Can't eject (WF-11/WB-9)

July 14, 1993: Mario All stars: Can eject (F(A)-30/B-53)

October 4, 1995: SMW2: Yoshi's Island (WF(A)-7/WB-5)

So just based on production time tables, they had to have redesigned them sometime after Star Fox but before Mario All Stars, or that was simply when they exhausted inventory. Keeping in mind that the Super FX cart back shell is different from the non-expansion chip shells.

 

I think the numbers on the plastic might be suggestive that each game had new shells made, even though they were identical. The Japanese SFC games appear to have this same numbering as well.

 

Ah, F(A) are the redesigned fronts. WF are the Expansion chip front and WF(A) are the expansion chip front with the redesign, WB is the expansion chip back.

Yes. Even as a kid I noted that Star Fox was available with both shell types and Super Mario All*Stars (my first game; free by mail with my 1993 Control Set) was only available with the new design. I did some research looking for in the wild examples of new and old shells of titles released between Star Fox and Super Mario All*Stars and narrowed the switch down further. I posted that somewhere on NintendoAge but, IIRC, it was around May or June 1993. Of course, SNES really took off after that so most do not have the locking mechanism.

 

I also noticed that my friends who already had an SNES had printed L&R buttons with printed “Eject” on the console where mine were just molded. Even before that, the internal posts for winding the controller cord were strengthened with a rib that connects them (earlier ones were frequently broken with the wires hanging out of the controller). For the longest time I thought the locking mechanism was removed as part of the same cost-saving initiative and that the carts were redesigned so fewer people would notice the missing lock. I eventually realized that Japan and EU/AU would’ve done the same thing in that case, so I had to be wrong.

[Kismet]

Yes. Even as a kid I noted that Star Fox was available with both shell types and Super Mario All*Stars (my first game; free by mail with my 1993 Control Set) was only available with the new design. I did some research looking for in the wild examples of new and old shells of titles released between Star Fox and Super Mario All*Stars and narrowed the switch down further. I posted that somewhere on NintendoAge but, IIRC, it was around May or June 1993. Of course, SNES really took off after that so most do not have the locking mechanism.

 

I also noticed that my friends who already had an SNES had printed L&R buttons with printed “Eject” on the console where mine were just molded. Even before that, the internal posts for winding the controller cord were strengthened with a rib that connects them (earlier ones were frequently broken with the wires hanging out of the controller). For the longest time I thought the locking mechanism was removed as part of the same cost-saving initiative and that the carts were redesigned so fewer people would notice the missing lock. I eventually realized that Japan and EU/AU would’ve done the same thing in that case, so I had to be wrong.

 

The controllers I have all have printed L&R's, but the SFC controllers I have (that came with the launch model 1/1/1 SFC) have molded L and R's. But given how much time has past since launch and when I acquired it, it's likely those aren't the original controllers. I should have 6 controllers (2 from my original, 2 from my sister's and 2 from the SFC) but I haven't gone through all my boxes looking for my originals. I'll recognize them because Nintendo power released stickers to put over the controller, and when the sticker wore through I removed it, and it took the "Super Nintendo" paint off with it.

 

At any rate, all this info is more or less interesting in identifying what version of a (pre-1993) cart is without opening it. Carts with the locking mechanism are likely original versions, where as versions without the locking mechanism are later editions.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Kismet

[bikerspade]

Okay, thanks!

I knew he didn't implement it before but wasn't sure if that's changed. I may go the route of the FDSStick.

There is still a bug with the latest versions of the JB and the HiDef NES firmware where the sound of the doors opening and closing in FDS Metroid are absent when using the Everdrive N8. This doesn't occur on older firmwares. Last year I got an FDSStick and FDS RAM Adapter and they work perfectly with the NT Mini.

[kevtris]

 

Oh, I wonder if it is gone, then.

 

Yeah, I figured not many would notice since most people don't seem to use it, but I did and couldn't find it.

 

Here is a picture of what my settings show (shared on NintendoAge too but this thread seems a lot more active):

 

 

 

 

Also weird that "font" has a checkbox next to it, considering it's not a toggle. Seems like maybe something got screwed up with that menu.

Well that'd explain why no one had a menu bounce checkbox any more. The checkbox is for that, but it looks like the entry got removed somehow. I have fixed that without knowing it, so that should be working on the next rev. I think the two entries might be overlapping so pressing down selects font, down again selects bounce (not visible except its checkbox) and once more is dim game in menu.

[SubElement]

Great to see such amazing work on the firmware! Thanks Kevtris!

 

Can't wait to see these fixes some to the JB Firmware as well as some JB specific fixes. By uhh... whomever is doing that...

 

>_>

 

<_<

[zeroG]

Colors are still wrong in 4.3 if you use HQ2x, HQ3x and HQ4x scalers. Orange is almost yellow for example and overall it looks as bad as the old firmwares. "Scale 2x" and "Scale 3x" don't have that problem and use the same improved colors as "No Scaler".

So you shouldn't use HQ(2-4)x in 4.3 - I hope Kevtris will fix this behavior in a future update, because I like HQ2x for some games in 1080p mode.At the moment I would recommend "720p60", "no scalers", "Disable V Interpolation", "Normal Scanlines", "Gamma +1" as baseline for new users.

Edited February 28, 2018 by zeroG

[Andromeda Stardust]

Colors are still wrong in 4.3 if you use HQ2x, HQ3x and HQ4x scalers. Orange is almost yellow for example and overall it looks as bad as the old firmwares. "Scale 2x" and "Scale 3x" don't have that problem and use the same improved colors as "No Scaler".

So you shouldn't use HQ(2-4)x in 4.3 - I hope Kevtris will fix this behavior in a future update, because I like HQ2x for some games in 1080p mode.At the moment I would recommend "720p60", "no scalers", "Disable V Interpolation", "Normal Scanlines", "Gamma +1" as baseline for new users.

I'm using scale 3x currently in 1200x1536 1080p mode. Odd the colors are messed up in hq. Mind I ask what is the difference between HQ 2,3,4 and Scale 2x, 3x? I like scale better than hq but cannot subjectively see any differences between 2, 3, 4 settings. Is higher number correlate to stronger effect?

 

Another minor issue with scanlines. In advanced mode, when setting the vertical height on integer scale in 5x mode (1080p), occasionally a tiny sliver of the pixel will sometimes show underneath the dark scanline bar. I'll upload a pic later. Also I would like to see an option for slightly thicker scanlines in 5x mode. For instance 3 bright, 2 dark may look more natural, increasing the gamma on the center of the beam, rather than 4 lines of even brightness and 1 dark. A similar tweak could be applied to 4x scaling, increasing the gamma on just the center of the beam.

 

The hybrid effect partially corrects the razor's edge look, but even enabled, the boundaries between scanlines can appear razor thin at times.

[romevi]

Update:

 

My console reboots itself only after unplugging and replugging back in the 8bitdo Retro Receiver, and only after replugging it. It'll restart the game and won't go back to the system menu, so it's a soft reset.

This happens only with the Retro Receiver, and only with the included cable from Analogue. I've tested with my wired original SNES controller and the asciiPad and both are fine unplugging and replugging while the game is on. After I swapped out the cable for another micro USB cable the issue didn't occur, so it must be the cable from Analogue. Probably doesn't give enough juice when the Retro Receiver is plugged back in.

 

Not sure if this is just me or happening to other people, but nbd as I don't foresee myself doing this again besides just testing out the used controllers I had.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Update:

 

My console reboots itself only after unplugging and replugging back in the 8bitdo Retro Receiver, and only after replugging it. It'll restart the game and won't go back to the system menu, so it's a soft reset.

This happens only with the Retro Receiver, and only with the included cable from Analogue. I've tested with my wired original SNES controller and the asciiPad and both are fine unplugging and replugging while the game is on. After I swapped out the cable for another micro USB cable the issue didn't occur, so it must be the cable from Analogue. Probably doesn't give enough juice when the Retro Receiver is plugged back in.

 

Not sure if this is just me or happening to other people, but nbd as I don't foresee myself doing this again besides just testing out the used controllers I had.

I wonder if the 8bitdo receivers have a filter cap with too high value? This would cause a momentary drop in vcc as the cap charges up through the controller port. I had similar issues hotplugging the 8bitdo controllers on avs.

[kevtris]

Colors are still wrong in 4.3 if you use HQ2x, HQ3x and HQ4x scalers. Orange is almost yellow for example and overall it looks as bad as the old firmwares. "Scale 2x" and "Scale 3x" don't have that problem and use the same improved colors as "No Scaler".

 

So you shouldn't use HQ(2-4)x in 4.3 - I hope Kevtris will fix this behavior in a future update, because I like HQ2x for some games in 1080p mode.At the moment I would recommend "720p60", "no scalers", "Disable V Interpolation", "Normal Scanlines", "Gamma +1" as baseline for new users.

It won't get fixed, because it can't be. I originally converted RGB to YUV in all cases, then back to RGB again which is what happened to the colours before. I added a "bypass' mode that lets RGB flow through unless you're using hqx scalers. In that case it must have the conversion active. It takes a lot of blockram to store the graphics for 3 scanlines, so I store it in YUV and back-convert it to RGB. This is still going on for hqx scalers.

 

Sorry 'bout that. It might be possible to fix it in the future but I have no immediate plans to do so.

[kwnage]

Update:

 

My console reboots itself only after unplugging and replugging back in the 8bitdo Retro Receiver, and only after replugging it. It'll restart the game and won't go back to the system menu, so it's a soft reset.

This happens only with the Retro Receiver, and only with the included cable from Analogue. I've tested with my wired original SNES controller and the asciiPad and both are fine unplugging and replugging while the game is on. After I swapped out the cable for another micro USB cable the issue didn't occur, so it must be the cable from Analogue. Probably doesn't give enough juice when the Retro Receiver is plugged back in.

 

Not sure if this is just me or happening to other people, but nbd as I don't foresee myself doing this again besides just testing out the used controllers I had.

 

That would explain why this doesn't happen on my setup. The cable and power supply that came with my SuperNt are still inside the box.

Edited February 28, 2018 by kwnage

[Forsaken]

I'm using scale 3x currently in 1200x1536 1080p mode. Odd the colors are messed up in hq. Mind I ask what is the difference between HQ 2,3,4 and Scale 2x, 3x? I like scale better than hq but cannot subjectively see any differences between 2, 3, 4 settings. Is higher number correlate to stronger effect?

 

Another minor issue with scanlines. In advanced mode, when setting the vertical height on integer scale in 5x mode (1080p), occasionally a tiny sliver of the pixel will sometimes show underneath the dark scanline bar. I'll upload a pic later. Also I would like to see an option for slightly thicker scanlines in 5x mode. For instance 3 bright, 2 dark may look more natural, increasing the gamma on the center of the beam, rather than 4 lines of even brightness and 1 dark. A similar tweak could be applied to 4x scaling, increasing the gamma on just the center of the beam.

 

The hybrid effect partially corrects the razor's edge look, but even enabled, the boundaries between scanlines can appear razor thin at times.

I think I'm a broken record at this point, but if you can do a chromaticity transform from Adobe1998 to RGBs/709 with perceptual rendering intent, it fixes those colors up very nicely. Chromaticity transformation is probably a pretty rare feature though, I have it on my video processor, but it was a cutting edge $1600 model when new =p.