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FPGA Based Videogame System

FPGA

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Poll: Interest in an FPGA Videogame System (576 member(s) have cast votes)

I would pay....

  1. > $100 (46 votes [7.99%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.99%

  2. $100-149 (74 votes [12.85%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.85%

  3. $150-199 (165 votes [28.65%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 28.65%

  4. $200-299 (163 votes [28.30%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 28.30%

  5. Sky's the Limit (128 votes [22.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

I Would Like Support for...

  1. 8 bit era games (474 votes [45.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 45.45%

  2. 16 bit era games (490 votes [46.98%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 46.98%

  3. Blip (79 votes [7.57%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.57%

Games Should Run From...

  1. SD Card / USB Memory Sticks (501 votes [54.28%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 54.28%

  2. Original Cartridges (371 votes [40.20%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.20%

  3. Hopes and Dreams (51 votes [5.53%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.53%

The Video Inteface Should be...

  1. RGB (222 votes [19.15%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.15%

  2. Composite (174 votes [15.01%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.01%

  3. S-video (106 votes [9.15%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.15%

  4. Component (151 votes [13.03%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.03%

  5. HDMI (506 votes [43.66%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 43.66%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#9351 RabidWookie OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 6:55 PM

 
Not going to happen. Not without the blessing of SEGA at least. I'd rather Analogue try and license the SEGA IP SegaCD games and just release that as several pack-in games on the internal console flash storage like Super Turrican on the Super NT. That would at least give a legal venue for licencing the BIOS. Otherwise Analogue would have to produce their own RE SegaCD Bios, and that's just not something I see happening when the goal is accuracy. 
 
Like people might not realize this, but the "expansion" options of the 8-bit systems were because they were designed as computers. The SG1000, Famicom, C64, Apple II, Tandy CoCo, BBC Micro, ZX Spectrum, MSX, and so forth all started as computer systems. The Sega Master System was basically a consoled SG3000, the C64 Games System was a consoled C64, etc. The expansion options of the 16-bit systems (SFC/MD/PCE) were because "Multimedia" was the new thing, and they all realized that the CD-ROM was the future, but ultimately they all were half-baked "use the cd for redbook audio" type of answers. 


Sega seems open to anything, including fan-made Sonic games, that draw attention to them and strengthen their brand. Getting Sega's approval on an FPGA Genesis/Sega CD/32X might be pretty easily doable, considering the garbage clone consoles they approve all the time.

#9352 AtariNerd OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:02 PM

Dunno. Just don't think a CD/32X integrated Analogue SG system is viable at a mass-market casual price and to make it viable on its own and to get such a scenario a shot at technically working, accommodating everyone's wishes, it would still need to be pieced together as in the old days, using what is already available or would need to be offered as one of three or more different options, multiplying complexity, production costs, making trouble-shooting / customer support a despairing thing, and the whole venture more dubious.

 

To get it to work as both an entry-level Genny/MD system for casual enthusiasts and die-hard, absolutely everything under the sun enthusiasts,  if it were to be produced by Analogue themselves; you'd need to create a stand-alone HDMI system, a separate Analogue video module with pass-through capabilities, and a unit with analogue pass-through built-in. If people are going to go full premium, it can be assumed they'd want both the CD/32X capabilities (one way or the other, they're going to have to mutually foot the bill, anyways) and and one could develop a combo plug-in, cart pass-through unit for those folks that sits on top of the combined baser/analogue system or is kludgable with the base/analogue-converter combo. It would need to be a full-on CD system, as a ROM reader is off the table as something Analogue could offer themselves and the market for such through third-party vendors would be an unsure thing, as well as technically beinh near nigh-impossible, unless they were handed privileged specs through Analogue. Pretty dubious.

 

32X/CD expansion needn't be as big and clunky as the originals, though, given hind-site and with an eye for design, could be made to better integrate as an add-on. Commodities of scale would come into play, though and an FPGA implementation of it would have to go for a rather hefty, grumbles-producing premium, I think work-alike, 32-bit chips might still be sourceable, in limited quantities, but would require a goodly bit of kludging, with assist chips to trim timings to ensure compatibility, plus many other things I have no clue as to. icon_wink.gif

 

So, yeah. OK...

 

Or, you know, just include the ports and let everyone cobble it together themselves. icon_wink.gif

 

EDIT: Heh, since in the time I started it and I hit submit on this post, after being called away, most of  what I brought up, has been suitable adressed / opined on  It truly is redundant. icon_mrgreen.gif


Edited by Standard User, Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:18 PM.


#9353 SegaSnatcher OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:03 PM

Sega seems open to anything, including fan-made Sonic games, that draw attention to them and strengthen their brand. Getting Sega's approval on an FPGA Genesis/Sega CD/32X might be pretty easily doable, considering the garbage clone consoles they approve all the time.

Yep, seems like Sega gives up their licensing relatively easy these days.  I'm sure Analogue could work out a decent deal.  

Having a bunch of Genesis games preloaded in a official capacity would be freaking amazing. 



#9354 Jakir OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:18 PM

And you think its worth it for Analogue to add the necessary components in order to play 15 possibly worthwhile games, even if that means form factor and price might be compromised?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the chips needed to run the 32x are already mapped and Kevtris has made cores for obscure systems like the Gameking and Gamate which have 40ish and 60ish games for the systems total. The issue with supporting the 32x and why he has said he doesn't want to do it is because of the sandwich combination method it uses to work with a regular Genesis.

Also a large reason why the 32x and Sega CD were unpopular and didn't sell well was because of the marketing at the time. If Kevtris could find a way to support it inside the Genesis console and not as an external addon and offer an expansion port for the Sega CD that would be as good of a console as we can hope for with current tech.



#9355 RabidWookie OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:27 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the chips needed to run the 32x are already mapped and Kevtris has made cores for obscure systems like the Gameking and Gamate which have 40ish and 60ish games for the systems total. The issue with supporting the 32x and why he has said he doesn't want to do it is because of the sandwich combination method it uses to work with a regular Genesis.

Also a large reason why the 32x and Sega CD were unpopular and didn't sell well was because of the marketing at the time. If Kevtris could find a way to support it inside the Genesis console and not as an external addon and offer an expansion port for the Sega CD that would be as good of a console as we can hope for with current tech.


I've heard that the 32x chips are already mapped as well, and that the issue is they wouldn't fit on an FPGA chip that would be cost efficient at the moment.

#9356 SegaSnatcher OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 8:23 PM

I've heard that the 32x chips are already mapped as well, and that the issue is they wouldn't fit on an FPGA chip that would be cost efficient at the moment.

What do you mean by mapped?



#9357 Jakir OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 8:26 PM

What do you mean by mapped?

The chips used in the 32x are chips Kevtris has already built in fpga code for other systems. The difficulty in getting a 32x to work is the way it interacts with the Genesis.



#9358 RabidWookie OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 8:26 PM

What do you mean by mapped?


That FPGA cores for the chips already exist.

#9359 cacophony OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 8:58 PM

Not sure if this is the case, but only because of a recent comment Kev made last Sunday. 
 
He mentioned that he licences his cores out for both game and non-game related stuff in the Analogue discord.


I found the quote you mean: "I license my cores (cpu) to work and some other places non-videogame related"

He mentioned in an interview awhile back that the cryogenics company he still works at part-time uses some of his cores, so I think he's just referring to that. The way it's worded is a little ambiguous, but I would interpret the "non-videogame related" part as applying to the whole sentence.

And here is the quote that I remembered:

leods asked: "@kevtris I actually have a serious question, but not sure that's something you want to answer. Are you working as contractor or employed? Or if you don't want to answer that, and want to answer the important part of that: Who does the SNES core blong to?"
kevtris replied: "I can't answer that, sorr"

#9360 SegaSnatcher OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 9:04 PM

The chips used in the 32x are chips Kevtris has already built in fpga code for other systems. The difficulty in getting a 32x to work is the way it interacts with the Genesis.

No he didn't.  He's never implemented the SH-2 CPUs via FPGA.  



#9361 SegaSnatcher OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 9:05 PM

That FPGA cores for the chips already exist.

Ummm, no they don't.  



#9362 Jagasian OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 9:12 PM

With the latest Super NT firmware, are there any known compatibility issues or accuracy issues remaining?

#9363 RabidWookie OFFLINE  

RabidWookie

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 9:13 PM

Ummm, no they don't.  


I've heard a few different sources say they do, but I have no direct knowledge of it.

#9364 Kismet OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 9:13 PM

Ummm, no they don't.  

 

kevtris wouldn't use someone elses core, but the SH-2 FGPA cores do exist. Look up Jcore. http://0pf.org/applications.htmlIt's also BSD licensed, so someone could do it themselves if they wanted to.

 

It's the VDP that would be a pain to RE without having a working sega sandwich.



#9365 killersquirel OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 9:18 PM

Just got the super FX all in one from retro circus. It's all working on the super nt so far only played for a hour and a half tring the games. Had to wait a bit since it's backordered. Everything seems good. Tried the unlock everything with yoshi's island code from gamehacking.net and it worked once I soft reset the game. (select up or pick the run cart option again in the menu's) There really should be a hard restart so the full cartage restarts also so I can get to the menu's for the flashcarts and muilticarts without getting up along side the regular restart what we have now which is still us full.

I am hearing a there may be a AIO SA-1 cart. Im kinda out of my money from my budget at the moment. Was thinking just getting 2 custom SA-1 4-1 carts. I hope the time I have the funds the AIO cart will be out. I am hearing it's getting there but it's been kinda tough getting it all fit. But working on it and may have 12 or 13 games sources from youtube comments. I really hope for some translations in it like DBZ Hyper dimension translation and whatever game is worthwile.

attachicon.gifretro gaming.jpg

 

 


I have not heard of an all in 1 SA-1 cartridge. Do you have any further information on it? I was thinking about getting the FX all in one cartridge. What games are on it and which version of Star Fox 2 is included? Is it the new version that came on the Super Nes Classic?



#9366 SegaSnatcher OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 9:38 PM

 

kevtris wouldn't use someone elses core, but the SH-2 FGPA cores do exist. Look up Jcore. http://0pf.org/applications.htmlIt's also BSD licensed, so someone could do it themselves if they wanted to.

 

It's the VDP that would be a pain to RE without having a working sega sandwich.

Yep, Kevtris isn't about using other people's work like that.   Just wanted to clarify that Kevtris has never implemented any of the chips in the 32X via FPGA. 



#9367 Jakir OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 9:44 PM

I have not heard of an all in 1 SA-1 cartridge. Do you have any further information on it? I was thinking about getting the FX all in one cartridge. What games are on it and which version of Star Fox 2 is included? Is it the new version that came on the Super Nes Classic?

https://www.retrocir...ustom-requests/
Right now the only one listed is a 4 in 1 you pick the games sa-1 cart but you might be able to make an order for a custom one with the 20ish SA-1 chip games in it.

And if you read the product info page for the Super FX all in one it has the info you are looking for.



#9368 RabidWookie OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 10:16 PM

Yep, Kevtris isn't about using other people's work like that.   Just wanted to clarify that Kevtris has never implemented any of the chips in the 32X via FPGA. 


If their work is quality and available to license, why not use it?

#9369 SegaSnatcher OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 10:18 PM

If their work is quality and available to license, why not use it?

Because Kevtris wants ownership to his designs. 

100% confident Kevtris simply licenses his FPGA cores to Analogue.   Kevtris isn't going to bust his ass doing all this work just to give up ownership to his IP. 


Edited by SegaSnatcher, Thu Mar 8, 2018 10:24 PM.


#9370 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 10:54 PM

So wait, are you saying the 2600 core in the NT Mini has input lag?

you need a screen buffer because scanline counts can vary across games. Nes and snes do without screen buffer because they can slow the system down ever so slightly (.1%) by skipping a clock cycle every now and then. This isn't feasible if the native frame rate is less than 60hz (or 59.94) or varies based on scanline count or some other metric.

#9371 SegaSnatcher OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 10:56 PM

you need a screen buffer because scanline counts can vary across games. Nes and snes do without screen buffer because they can slow the system down ever so slightly (.1%) by skipping a clock cycle every now and then. This isn't feasible if the native frame rate is less than 60hz (or 59.94) or varies based on scanline count or some other metric.

 

So what are we talking about?  1 extra frame of lag?   



#9372 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 11:06 PM

Yep, its the final texturing that keeps it from being true transparent.  I think Analogue should consider leaving off texturing for the clear cases going forward.

That's a terrible idea, and I'll explain why. Firstly it would require separate tooling for transparent shells. The funtastic n64s were textured and did fine.

Glossy plastics show off fingerprints and dirt, and scuff easily. Textured plastics hide blemishes. Rub your fingers across a wii, and run your fingers across an snes. Both are manufactured from abs plastic. Which one does the bodily oils in your hands streaks everytime you touch it?

I love the surface texture of my classic na purple super nt. A Wii-like gloss would have caused far, far, far more complaints.

#9373 SegaSnatcher OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 11:20 PM

That's a terrible idea, and I'll explain why. Firstly it would require separate tooling for transparent shells. The funtastic n64s were textured and did fine.

Glossy plastics show off fingerprints and dirt, and scuff easily. Textured plastics hide blemishes. Rub your fingers across a wii, and run your fingers across an snes. Both are manufactured from abs plastic. Which one does the bodily oils in your hands streaks everytime you touch it?

I love the surface texture of my classic na purple super nt. A Wii-like gloss would have caused far, far, far more complaints.

Well at the very least update the renders to show what the transparent shells actually look like in person.  



#9374 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 11:37 PM

https://www.retrocir...ustom-requests/
Right now the only one listed is a 4 in 1 you pick the games sa-1 cart but you might be able to make an order for a custom one with the 20ish SA-1 chip games in it.
And if you read the product info page for the Super FX all in one it has the info you are looking for.

Only sa-1 games I'm interested in (smrpg, both kirbys, and parodius 3), I already have. My Kirby DL3 is Japanese version in fact which I got because it was 5x cheaper than the US version. Parodius is Japan exclusive but a fun pick up and play shmup that talks back in Japanese (start with the first game first using a flash cart or jb - if you like it you'll love the other two), and the Kirbys don't really need to be in English. SMRPG is the only one you absolutely need to be in English. The others are obscure jrpgs like Marvelous that might benefit from repro translations, but I'm not a huge fan of jrpgs, just lighter side like SM stuff and Earthbound.

Same dealio with the Super FX games. Most of the ones I want, like Yoshi's Island, I already have. Which was why I ordered that SF2 repro in a translucent purple shell. I think a stunt race fx gave it's life to bring me Star Fox 2. Pity, lol. :P

#9375 killersquirel OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 9, 2018 12:06 AM

https://www.retrocir...ustom-requests/
Right now the only one listed is a 4 in 1 you pick the games sa-1 cart but you might be able to make an order for a custom one with the 20ish SA-1 chip games in it.

And if you read the product info page for the Super FX all in one it has the info you are looking for.

 

It starts to list the games and then simply says, "And More!" I was curious with what exactly is on the cartridge. 







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