FPGA Based Videogame System

[Sneakyturtleegg]

Got my NT Mini today. Having trouble with the Atari 7800 core. The menu and games will only load in black & white when hooked up to to a CRT television via composite video and S-video. I'm using the monoprice connector recommended on the Analogue web site. I'm also using a smokemonster rom set with .a78 extensions. The bios screen and the games are all b&w. I tried a different bios with no luck. Using component video, it will load with color, but a lot of the graphics don't look right. With Atari, I'd like to be in composite video on a CRT. The Atari 2600 core seems to be working ok with composite/s-video.

 

Using composite video on the CRT, I've also noticed a lot of rainbowing on the text in the core menus. The picture in the games seems to be ok, but color bleeding/rainbowing can be seen in some of the graphics if you look hard enough. Maybe this has to do with the way the FPGA/cores emulate composite/s-video signals?

 

I'll be checking it out on the flat screen in HDMI a bit later.

 

Anybody else have these symptoms? Any suggestions with the settings?

[cfillak]

Got my NT Mini today. Having trouble with the Atari 7800 core. The menu and games will only load in black & white when hooked up to to a CRT television via composite video and S-video. I'm using the monoprice connector recommended on the Analogue web site. I'm also using a smokemonster rom set with .a78 extensions. The bios screen and the games are all b&w. I tried a different bios with no luck. Using component video, it will load with color, but a lot of the graphics don't look right. With Atari, I'd like to be in composite video on a CRT. The Atari 2600 core seems to be working ok with composite/s-video.

 

Using composite video on the CRT, I've also noticed a lot of rainbowing on the text in the core menus. The picture in the games seems to be ok, but color bleeding/rainbowing can be seen in some of the graphics if you look hard enough. Maybe this has to do with the way the FPGA/cores emulate composite/s-video signals?

 

I'll be checking it out on the flat screen in HDMI a bit later.

 

Anybody else have these symptoms? Any suggestions with the settings?

IIRC not all of the cores support composite/s-video. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[rezb1t]

Got a replacement NT Mini today after having issues with analog video before, this unit works perfect!

 

The Atari 7800 core is really awesome! Had a lot of fun with it so far. I'll have to try it in composite, haven't done that yet.

 

Also, can confirm the crashing issue with the 2 N163 games listed in the previous page

Edited March 17, 2017 by rezb1t

[kevtris]

Got my NT Mini today. Having trouble with the Atari 7800 core. The menu and games will only load in black & white when hooked up to to a CRT television via composite video and S-video. I'm using the monoprice connector recommended on the Analogue web site. I'm also using a smokemonster rom set with .a78 extensions. The bios screen and the games are all b&w. I tried a different bios with no luck. Using component video, it will load with color, but a lot of the graphics don't look right. With Atari, I'd like to be in composite video on a CRT. The Atari 2600 core seems to be working ok with composite/s-video.

 

Using composite video on the CRT, I've also noticed a lot of rainbowing on the text in the core menus. The picture in the games seems to be ok, but color bleeding/rainbowing can be seen in some of the graphics if you look hard enough. Maybe this has to do with the way the FPGA/cores emulate composite/s-video signals?

 

I'll be checking it out on the flat screen in HDMI a bit later.

 

Anybody else have these symptoms? Any suggestions with the settings?

 

yeah I think I ran out of time to test, so I believe it is B&W in composite on the 7800 core. I will try to fix that soon.

 

IIRC not all of the cores support composite/s-video. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

no they should all support it, just NTSC only except NES, which will do both.

[cacophony]

I'm really enjoying playing with the different cores. I never owned the 7800 but always wanted one, so being able to experience an accurate simulation is amazing.

 

A couple questions:

 

Any reason not to configure it so that the ram automatically saves on exit? If I don't want the game saved I wouldn't save in-game. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something...

 

Also just curious, but is there a limit on how many times the FPGA in the Nt Mini can reliably be rewritten to do a core switch?

Edited March 17, 2017 by cacophony

[kevtris]

I'm really enjoying playing with the different cores. I never owned the 7800 but always wanted one, so being able to experience an accurate simulation is amazing.

 

A couple questions:

 

Any reason not to configure it so that the ram automatically saves on exit? If I don't want the game saved I wouldn't save in-game. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something...

 

Also just curious, but is there a limit on how many times the FPGA in the Nt Mini can reliably be rewritten to do a core switch?

you can enable that in the core menus of the cores that support RAM saving. you can turn it off, prompt, or always.

 

no there's no limit. the FPGA is RAM based, so there isn't any write limit.

[kevtris]

Just fixed the 7800 composite issue. It will be updated tomorrow on the next release.

[cacophony]

you can enable that in the core menus of the cores that support RAM saving. you can turn it off, prompt, or always.

 

I guess I was trying to understand why somebody would want to pick "off" or "prompt". I feel like I must not be understanding a potential use case or two.

Edited March 17, 2017 by cacophony

[kevtris]

 

I guess I was trying to understand why somebody would want to pick "off" or "prompt". I feel like I must not be understanding a potential use case or two.

more options more better! haha. I use off and prompt a lot during testing to make sure it is working properly. It's possible maybe you don't want to save your game though, like if you're just testing the game and don't want to play through it yet so that's another reason. I prefer prompt, since I know it saved.

[gulps]

This is what I use in my setup: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017B6WFP8

My UHD display only has 3.5mm stereo out so instead of running every console in my system to some kind of audio switch I just run them into a xrgb mini which I run into a hdmi switch with all my other hdmi devices so everything comes in on a single hdmi cable to my display and this simply separates the digital audio from that cable in a self powered (on every hdmi port I have used it on) 0 lag solution straight to my speaker setup so I can have 5.1 channel surround sound.

 

This is what we have to do with the nt mini, use a HDMI digital audio splitter.

 

But that means another product between the DAC. It works, but I love simplicity

 

 

Thanks for the link Wolf_!

[GarrettCRW]

Has anyone been having any issues using the FDS RAM Adapter with the NT Mini? I had popped in a couple of disks quickly the day I got the system without incident, but I basically lost two hours tonight futzing with the RAM Adapter. First, it needed its contacts cleaned (not exactly a shocker), but I was constantly have gameplay freeze up while playing in the Overworld of Zelda 1 (so the drive wasn't in use or anything).

[Kismet]

 

This is what we have to do with the nt mini, use a HDMI digital audio splitter.

 

But that means another product between the DAC. It works, but I love simplicity

 

 

Thanks for the link Wolf_!

 

Be careful with solutions like that, make sure you use as-short-as-possible cables, because some devices (WiiU, and MacMini both do this) will fail to do a HDMI handshake with long cables. I'd be a bit worried about latency too, but that might not be high enough to matter (eg 2ms or so.)

 

My game setup had a splitter and a HDMI switch, but the WiiU kept triggering the switch, so I wound up just plugging that directly into the TV, but then it turns out the MacMini wouldn't handshake if both the switch and the splitter were used either. Splitters require a monitor/TV handshake to work correctly.

 

At any rate that's just my experience with splitters and switches.

[Wolf_]

 

Be careful with solutions like that, make sure you use as-short-as-possible cables, because some devices (WiiU, and MacMini both do this) will fail to do a HDMI handshake with long cables. I'd be a bit worried about latency too, but that might not be high enough to matter (eg 2ms or so.)

 

My game setup had a splitter and a HDMI switch, but the WiiU kept triggering the switch, so I wound up just plugging that directly into the TV, but then it turns out the MacMini wouldn't handshake if both the switch and the splitter were used either. Splitters require a monitor/TV handshake to work correctly.

 

At any rate that's just my experience with splitters and switches.

I've never had any problem with the spdif splitter. It is digital to digital so just taking the audio channels and outputting them as spdif hasn't caused any issues. I've never even used the included psu and let the hdmi switch power it (to be fair though the hdmi switch has its own power in and probably uses next to none so I imagine it would have plenty to send to my spdif splitter.) Because it is digital to digital it adds 0 latency and simply sends the digital audio data out a different port.

 

On the subject of cable length the cable I'm using is a 1 foot cable simply because the cable out of it is 8 feet so I didn't need any more length. If that has been the secret to my good luck so far it was pure luck then because I got a short one purely for cable management reasons lol.

 

I will say hdmi switches can be very finnicky but you get what you pay for. I went with an Iogear 8 port hdmi switch and while it currently costs $140 on amazon I'm glad to say it has never given me any problems. Also splitters in general (takes one signal and sends it as multiple signals out) seem to have more problems than switches (multiple plugs go in but only one signal goes out). But if you wanted you could just plug your device/s directly into the spdif splitter and eliminate that potential issue. Hdmi ports are rated at like 10,000 insertions but I'm pretty sure they lowball it so no one can ever make a claim. In any case I've never had any hdmi device or cable die on me (and if the splitter does die after several years it isn't an expensive thing to replace) so using a hdmi switch is more of a perfectionist thing than a necessity imo.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Wolf_

[Wolf_]

more options more better! haha. I use off and prompt a lot during testing to make sure it is working properly. It's possible maybe you don't want to save your game though, like if you're just testing the game and don't want to play through it yet so that's another reason. I prefer prompt, since I know it saved.

On the subject of options I had a thought dawn on me. Would you consider supporting the Atari Jaguar Controller?

While it may look goofy and not have trigger buttons what it does have is a dpad and number buttons which imo makes it the ultimate stand in atari 5200 controller. It is comfortable to hold and has all the necessary buttons and the Atari 5200 controllers are pure garbage. It would also be great for Intellivision and ColecoVision controller stand ins.

 

[+eebuckeye]

On the subject of options I had a thought dawn on me. Would you consider supporting the Atari Jaguar Controller?

While it may look goofy and not have trigger buttons what it does have is a dpad and number buttons which imo makes it the ultimate stand in atari 5200 controller. It is comfortable to hold and has all the necessary buttons and the Atari 5200 controllers are pure garbage. It would also be great for Intellivision and ColecoVision controller stand ins.

 

 

This would be a great idea!!

[valthonis]

On the subject of options I had a thought dawn on me. Would you consider supporting the Atari Jaguar Controller?

While it may look goofy and not have trigger buttons what it does have is a dpad and number buttons which imo makes it the ultimate stand in atari 5200 controller. It is comfortable to hold and has all the necessary buttons and the Atari 5200 controllers are pure garbage. It would also be great for Intellivision and ColecoVision controller stand ins.

 

 

Agreed! I would love to have Atari 5200 support, minus the couple analog controller games, and use the Jaguar controller for 5200, Intellivision, and Colecovision.

[valthonis]

Additionally, is it possible to make a pair of FPGAs work together? Wasn't sure if something like a NES cartridge slot addon with another FPGA could provide additional horsepower for things like Genesis/SNES etc.

Obviously that would only really work for ROMs unless you could some how put another cart slot onto the addon, but mostly curious if technically its even possible.

[Beer Monkey]

 

Agreed! I would love to have Atari 5200 support, minus the couple analog controller games, and use the Jaguar controller for 5200, Intellivision, and Colecovision.

 

Man, I own both the original and pro controllers for the Jag, but I can't get behind that d-pad or the general form factor.

 

On the other hand, choices are king so the more the merrier.

 

Honestly if there were just some button remap ability for the SNES and Pro controllers I'd be thrilled. Not a fan of Y/B, but an even bigger issue is it's way too easy to accidentally hit a button that caus things like a Colecovision reset (presumably #), for example, on the controller because I think it's mapped to X or A. Try a game of Boulderdash on the CV core to see what I mean. Of course, using a NES controller avoids this but then there's no way to start the game as the needed buttons are missing.

 

But honestly, the NT Mini with the core store is incredible, it's mind blowing how amazing this is for how early on this is in the jailbreak scene. Kevtris is revolutionizing the classic gaming scene for the pragmatic enthusiasts.

[cfillak]

Additionally, is it possible to make a pair of FPGAs work together? Wasn't sure if something like a NES cartridge slot addon with another FPGA could provide additional horsepower for things like Genesis/SNES etc.

Obviously that would only really work for ROMs unless you could some how put another cart slot onto the addon, but mostly curious if technically its even possible.

Theoretically this is what would happen if, on the Z3K, you plugged in the SD2SNES flash cart using the future SNES core on the Z3K. AFAIK, the SD2SNES has an FPGA onboard that replicates the function of most of the SNES expansion chips (minus SA-1 and Super FX).

 

I don't know what kevtris' overall plans are for SNES but I wonder if he will just implement the expansion chips in the SNES core to support loading expansion chip enhanced game ROMs from an SD card. I think he did that for the NES core?

[valthonis]

Theoretically this is what would happen if, on the Z3K, you plugged in the SD2SNES flash cart using the future SNES core on the Z3K. AFAIK, the SD2SNES has an FPGA onboard that replicates the function of most of the SNES expansion chips (minus SA-1 and Super FX).

 

I don't know what kevtris' overall plans are for SNES but I wonder if he will just implement the expansion chips in the SNES core to support loading expansion chip enhanced game ROMs from an SD card. I think he did that for the NES core?

 

Correct, the SD2SNES does replicate many expansion chips however those would already be expected exist on the cart bus connector. I was thinking of different scenario. For ease of example I will use the Genesis and CD addon.

Pretending for a moment the Analogue NT could replicate the Genesis hardware it would be doubtful that it could also do the Sega CD addon hardware. My thought was a cart connector addon that would add another FPGA to handle addition chips like those found in the Sega CD. This way hardware capabilities could be added to the Analogue NT Mini.

 

Again, I do not know the inner workings of FPGAs. It is possible that splitting hardware emulation accross multiple FPGAs would be very difficult, likely more so when working across the NES or Famicom cart connector. (Unless of bandwidth possibilities there)

 

I don't expect any of this is really cost effective, but it was more just entertaining to think about from a technical perspective.

[cfillak]

A question for Kevtris:

 

I believe you mentioned that the GB/GBC cores are "frame buffer systems". Do you use a frame buffer to convert the gameboy's non standard refresh rate to something more HDMI compliant or do you increase/decrease the clock speed? Also, for analog video output for GB/C do you just output at the native (non-standard) refresh rate like the Game Boy Interface Ultra Low Latency on the Gamecube's GB Player does? IIRC PVMs can handle this refresh rate.

[rezb1t]

Has anyone been having any issues using the FDS RAM Adapter with the NT Mini? I had popped in a couple of disks quickly the day I got the system without incident, but I basically lost two hours tonight futzing with the RAM Adapter. First, it needed its contacts cleaned (not exactly a shocker), but I was constantly have gameplay freeze up while playing in the Overworld of Zelda 1 (so the drive wasn't in use or anything).

Hmm that's odd, I've been playing Zelda on my FDS RAM adapter for a few hours and haven't had any issues. Your issue sounds very similar to what was happening to the reviewers "My Life in Gaming", except they were using an FDSStick in place of the disk drive.

Wonder if it's something to do with the RAM Adapter? Guessing maybe older/newer ram adapters behave a little bit differently judging by the FDSstick changelog here: http://3dscapture.com/fdsstick/changelog.html

 

 

*snip*

Earlier in the thread you had mentioned that Pinball Deluxe/Pinball Fantasies was having some issues due to timing that emulators hadn't figured out yet, I found a few threads in which the author talks about getting it to work in their emulator! I don't know if this is helpful for you and might require some further digging, but I hope it's useful at some point

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/EmuDev/comments/4n71ea/gb_pinball_deluxe_fails_to_run_on_any_emulator/

https://board.byuu.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1307

 

(second link is more relevant!)

Edited March 17, 2017 by rezb1t

[cacophony]

 

Man, I own both the original and pro controllers for the Jag, but I can't get behind that d-pad or the general form factor.

 

On the other hand, choices are king so the more the merrier.

 

Honestly if there were just some button remap ability for the SNES and Pro controllers I'd be thrilled. Not a fan of Y/B, but an even bigger issue is it's way too easy to accidentally hit a button that caus things like a Colecovision reset (presumably #), for example, on the controller because I think it's mapped to X or A. Try a game of Boulderdash on the CV core to see what I mean. Of course, using a NES controller avoids this but then there's no way to start the game as the needed buttons are missing.

 

But honestly, the NT Mini with the core store is incredible, it's mind blowing how amazing this is for how early on this is in the jailbreak scene. Kevtris is revolutionizing the classic gaming scene for the pragmatic enthusiasts.

 

I was playing Alex Kid in Miracle World last night and really wishing I could swap the A and B buttons.

 

@kevtris, here are two feature requests

 

1. Menu to "Swap A and B buttons", and if possible just for in-game play and have it only apply on a per game/rom basis

 

2. "Enable turbo A" and "Enable turbo B" menu items that turn A and B into turbo buttons respectively. Kinda like the AVS.

Edited March 17, 2017 by cacophony

[rezb1t]

<p>

So, some bugs (core just prior to 7800 support):

• I guess you know the GBC core is unfinished, but the audio pitches are messed up & volume sliders don't change anything in the menu. I ran Snow Bros. Jr in both the GB and GBC cores and could really tell the difference.
• NES Solstice, both on cart and in the JB core, has scratchy static coming out of the noise channel (heard in-game). If the noise channel is set to 0, static stops, but even at volume level 1 (see pic) it is heard.
• (Not a bug, but if you have sprite limit set to 16, some garbage is seen in the Solstice intro.)
• FDS loading via RAM adaptor (and real FDS disk drive) in the Fami slot does not work at all. This is a shame. Loading stops / games crash during initial load. Also, several FDS NSFs, such as 3-D Hot Rally, Ai Senshi Nicol, Almana no Kiseki, etc. crash or go off the rails a few tracks in, in the NSF player. So, perhaps your Fami core does not properly enable all the (cart) RAM space needed for FDS games, or there are bus/address range conflicts with some other registers, or something?

Late response here, just wanted to make sure this message doesn't get missed

 

- Can confirm the GB issue with Snow Bros Jr, compared it to an everdrive gb on my gameboy color. Just seems a bit too high pitched, to me

 

- Can confirm this issue with Solstice! Bit of an odd one. When I first loaded up the game and started playing I couldn't hear any issues, but the moment I died and the game started again, the static noise was present through the entire game. Does not happen on an AV Famicom.

 

Seems there are a few people having issues with the FDS, I'm guessing that there are different revision FDS Ram adapters out there and some of them must not work with the NT Mini, for some reason.

Edited March 17, 2017 by rezb1t

[killersquirel]

 

I guess I was trying to understand why somebody would want to pick "off" or "prompt". I feel like I must not be understanding a potential use case or two.

 

I choose prompt because I'd like to see which games have the backup save. It's no big deal to press the b button to save for me.