Gunstar Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Ultimately, I find that those are some incredibly difficult games to get into these days. If I could transfer my childhood mindset to my adult life now it would be vastly easier. This is probably why I haven't ever finished the first U1-4 on my Atari and why they are on my bucket list. The idea of hours of adventurous game play through the Ultima series is that of childhood and young adult memories, and I do find it hard to find the attention span these days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 This is probably why I haven't ever finished the first U1-4 on my Atari and why they are on my bucket list. The idea of hours of adventurous game play through the Ultima series is that of childhood and young adult memories, and I do find it hard to find the attention span these days. It's definitely time/attention, but it's also probably being spoiled by modern interfaces. I know a game that doesn't at least auto-map and have some menu-driven functionality seems rather impenetrable to me these days (although I guess that's a factor of time/attention). Heck, even my favorite RPG series of all-time, Phantasie from SSI (first game, 1985), which does have those elements (for the most part) in some of its ports, proved a bit too much for me when I attempted to replay it again not that long ago. I figure if I can't at least get back into that, then what hope do I have for some of the less user friendly CRPGs? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 It's definitely time/attention, but it's also probably being spoiled by modern interfaces. I know a game that doesn't at least auto-map and have some menu-driven functionality seems rather impenetrable to me these days (although I guess that's a factor of time/attention). Heck, even my favorite RPG series of all-time, Phantasie from SSI (first game, 1985), which does have those elements (for the most part) in some of its ports, proved a bit too much for me when I attempted to replay it again not that long ago. I figure if I can't at least get back into that, then what hope do I have for some of the less user friendly CRPGs? I find Phantasie III is one game I can easily pick up and play. The mouse driven interface helps on ST. The problem with Ultima is not knowing what key does what when I try to play it. But then I give up rather than look it up online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farb Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Speaking of Ultima I, does anyone have an original (or a backup of an original) that they'd be willing to loan us for dumping? We have good dumps of Ultimas 2-4 but are frustratingly still missing the first one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Lange Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) I can get with Allan Bushman and have him dump it and send it to you. Edited February 23, 2018 by Bill Lange 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thag Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 It's definitely time/attention, but it's also probably being spoiled by modern interfaces. I know a game that doesn't at least auto-map and have some menu-driven functionality seems rather impenetrable to me these days (although I guess that's a factor of time/attention). Heck, even my favorite RPG series of all-time, Phantasie from SSI (first game, 1985), which does have those elements (for the most part) in some of its ports, proved a bit too much for me when I attempted to replay it again not that long ago. I figure if I can't at least get back into that, then what hope do I have for some of the less user friendly CRPGs? The interface thing is definitely a wall. I recently played through the Temple of Apshai trilogy to the end. I'd put it off for years due to the weird/early/non-standard controls. Once I made myself learn them, I completely forgot about them in like 45 minutes and had a blast. Basically, you have to make yourself re-acclimate to the early 80s 'every function in the game is a different key' thing. Once you do, you quickly realize why these games were so popular: because they are a lot of fun. Even today. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laner Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Ultima V is the one I keep wanting to go back to. The C64 version is fine, but 8 disk sides and no music hurts. Playing it on the C128 with two drives is better, but still a slog (and the "step" sound effect really affects the music, IMO). The Amiga version restarts "Stones" every time you perform certain actions, which is maddening. After messing with all the various ports, for my money the best one is the MS-DOS version with Pix's MIDI patch installed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+slx Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Didn't the Atari version rely on artifacting for colors? Wouldn't that mean the game would be basically black and white on Pal systems with weird bit patterns intended to produce colors. Even on NTSC colors would have been different between machines because not all produced the same set of artifact colors. There is artifacting on PAL machines, it was green/blue on my monitor but it's probably not where the authors wanted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) There is artifacting on PAL machines, it was green/blue on my monitor but it's probably not where the authors wanted it. It doesn't work the same way is the problem, it's there, but with NTSC alternating lines or patterns and it creates a visible solid color, and with PAL, you still see the lines and patterns, it's not solid, so it looks terrible. Edited February 23, 2018 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarland Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Recently I found a web page that evaluated all the early Ultimas. It said the A8 version of U3 is one of the better ones but that it has laggy input. I can confirm that. The page said the best 8bit U3 is the gold version that came out in '86 for the C64. I looked through my browser history and can't find the page. If I find it I'll post it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Recently I found a web page that evaluated all the early Ultimas. It said the A8 version of U3 is one of the better ones but that it has laggy input. I can confirm that. The page said the best 8bit U3 is the gold version that came out in '86 for the C64. I looked through my browser history and can't find the page. If I find it I'll post it here. Maybe this site?: http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Computer_Ports_of_Ultima_I Looks like I did my own personal comparison on a previous version of my Website back in 2008: http://www.armchairarcade.com/neo/node/1764?page=1. It's clear my thinking and the available choices (like this for the C-64: http://magervalp.github.io/2015/03/30/u4-remastered.html) need some updating 10 years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarland Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) I found it! http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/nes/ultima3/versions.shtml edit: pretty sure there was also another page when I find it I'll post it. Edited February 23, 2018 by Sugarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farb Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 I can get with Allan Bushman and have him dump it and send it to you. That would be fantastic! Thank you, Bill! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Maybe this site?: http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Computer_Ports_of_Ultima_I Looks like I did my own personal comparison on a previous version of my Website back in 2008: http://www.armchairarcade.com/neo/node/1764?page=1. It's clear my thinking and the available choices (like this for the C-64: http://magervalp.github.io/2015/03/30/u4-remastered.html) need some updating 10 years later. The "Atari" descriptions on those Wiki's was terrible - the guy that runs that site I dont think was an Atari fan and left it out of alot of pages. I updated the pictures to be more color correct and the descriptions and got grief for it. EVentually all my edits were 'credited' to the owner of the page - I stopped providing feedback after that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) That treatment happens a great deal in the vintage computer world, which is why I don't get along with some individuals. They credit themselves for everything and believe eventually in what they write. The bias and belief can't be overcome. Sadly when we just walk away, such as you and I have done.... it doesn't help the folks around the world. The individuals that write this stuff become over inflated, sometimes a defacto source in lieu of the individuals who actually know, first had hands on a thing, or even created it in the first place. Crazy but true. Now the fellow who ran that site when confronted, makes no changes when he sees something is wrong, he will then proceed to lecture about too many run on "and"(s) in a statement, a grammar error or misplace antecedent. Somehow he may be thinking those deflections will make the facts go away or seem less credible. I have a vague recollection of your struggle. Maybe if you approach him appealing to his ego, or in some other fashion... he will make some more changes. I am certain he will get or take credit for it and that's a tough thing to swallow, but it is possible some of reality will get there and bleed through. Most can recognize the truth in some way over time. It would at least be worth a try and can only help from a historical sense for those who read about the subject rather than who wrote it. Edited February 24, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 The "Atari" descriptions on those Wiki's was terrible - the guy that runs that site I dont think was an Atari fan and left it out of alot of pages. I updated the pictures to be more color correct and the descriptions and got grief for it. EVentually all my edits were 'credited' to the owner of the page - I stopped providing feedback after that. Wikis are often like that, unfortunately. Based on the edit history for the overall site, it looks like they make changes almost daily. It's probably just a circle of insiders who are "trusted" with edits. It might make sense to appeal to one of them if someone on here feels particularly passionate about a specific issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 It was a couple of years ago that I made the updates. The original information was something along the lines of the Atari was a bad copy of the Apple version with wrong artifact color pictures. Atleast the pictures are better, but I have no interest in helping that wiki become better on the Atari information side. Notice the 8bit U5 information - thats all I had before we found out where the demo came from. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarland Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) I found it! http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/nes/ultima3/versions.shtml edit: pretty sure there was also another page when I find it I'll post it. Found two more pages comparing U3: http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Ultima_III (under section 'Differences between the platforms') https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/562659-ultima-iii-exodus/faqs/20688 (section titled 'Wherefore the Apple/PC') Previously I said the C64 version is the best 8bit vers but I must qualify that in that U3 has a lot of in-game disk loading and the slow C= 1541 disk drive greatly impacted gameplay. ALSO: The Ultima 3 Upgrade - PC version - http://exodus.voyd.net/projects/ultima3/ There are great musics at the bottom of that page. He also has upgrades for Ultimas II, IV and V on the right panel on that page. Ultima 3 Upgrade Overview The Ultima 3 Upgrade is a patch for Ultima III: Exodus that adds the following features: The ability to switch between four video modes with new tile sets: VGA 256-color mode EGA 16-color mode Simulated CGA Composite 16-color mode CGA 4-color mode Enhanced MIDI Music from the C64 and Apple II versions New hotkeys: Restore (ALT-R), Exit (ALT-X), and Main Menu (ALT-M) And many others: Replaces the 0-7 numeric moon phases with actual moon icons A Frame Limiter that ensures the game runs at a reasonable rate on today’s processors Ability to enable/disable the AutoSave feature A program to reset the game so you can start a new character Gameplay balance fixes related to monster generation and food consumption rates Properly timed PC speaker sound effects The upgrade is designed to be flexible such that various features can be switched on and off individually via a configuration program. Future enhancements might entail modifying the sound effects to be generated by WAV/MP3 data, looking at using SVGA DOS libraries for higher-resolution graphics, and/or allowing others to more easily customize the graphics and music. At the moment though, I feel the U3 Upgrade is in a very good spot where it is, so don’t expect these things any time soon (or perhaps ever). Edited March 16, 2018 by Sugarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farb Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I can get with Allan Bushman and have him dump it and send it to you. IMG_0005.JPG Hi @Bill Lange, did you ever manage to send this disk over to Allan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Lange Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Hi @Bill Lange, did you ever manage to send this disk over to Allan? I met up with Allan for a few hours this past weekend at CTGamerCon. We discussed dumping Ultima (1 through 4) and The Newsroom of which I have the original Atari 8-bit diskettes. He is going to bring his Kryoflux over at the end of May when he comes to NJ for VCF East. We will dump the diskettes and make new, higher resolution, unwatermarked copies of the manuals as well. Bill 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farb Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 That is great news! Thanks for the update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farb Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 He is going to bring his Kryoflux over at the end of May when he comes to NJ for VCF East. We will dump the diskettes and make new, higher resolution, unwatermarked copies of the manuals as well. Did you guys manage to connect up on this? *fingers crossed* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Lange Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) Did you guys manage to connect up on this? *fingers crossed* Well, we did manage to get together and Allan did have his Kryoflux with him, but we were so busy with VCF East we never actually got around to coping or scanning anything. We did discuss getting together in the near future to try again. We will try again either over the summer or at Atari Party East in September. Thanks for checking in! On a side note, I got to meet Richard Garriott when we met up for drinks in Manhattan in April. Edited May 22, 2018 by Bill Lange 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Lange Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) Attached is a Kryoflux dump of the front side of the Ultima 1 diskette. In our current configuration, Kryoflux is unable to read the backside of the disk do to the missing timing hole. ultima-one-side-one_s0.atr Edited September 22, 2018 by Bill Lange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farb Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 Thanks, Bill! Is it possible for you make raw stream files available as well? Do you also have an ATR of the backside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.