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Atari 2600 Trak-Ball Games

Trak-Ball Track Ball Missile Command Centipede Reactor Millipede Challenge of... Nexar Marble Craze Plaque Attack

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#51 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:32 PM

sppad1.jpg

 

 

Slightly smaller than the Atari's and has a really nice ergonomic and quality feel to it. Honestly, it's been my go-to TB all these years while the Atari's sat in storage. Be great if it could ever be adapted properly, but totally understand if not worth the trouble. Seem to be a handful on eBay at the moment, but kinda pricey.  :( 

 

Never had a reason to open her up (she's built Tonka tough - pun intended), but if it comes down to it, perhaps I could assist in helping with tracing the leads, etc. 



#52 Omegamatrix OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:52 PM

If it works like a regular track ball then I could build a rom to read what it spits out. The test would work something like this. You spin (and keep spinning) in one of the corner directions (Up-Left, Up-Right, Down-Right, Down-Left). After a little while some values will appear on the screen and you can quite spinning. You then can take a picture of the screen, hit reset, and spin it in a different corner (repeating the same steps for each corner). When taking the photos just keep track of what corner they belong too.

 

If all works well then the bit pattern is there.



#53 Mitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:58 PM

I believe Sega had +5v on pin 5 while Atari had it on Pin 7.

 

Mitch



#54 Omegamatrix OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:00 PM

I believe Sega had +5v on pin 5 while Atari had it on Pin 7.

 

Mitch

That pretty much solves it then, and I don't have to write a rom. :)



#55 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:14 AM

I believe Sega had +5v on pin 5 while Atari had it on Pin 7.

Could that be solved by rewiring?



#56 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:04 AM

I believe Sega had +5v on pin 5 while Atari had it on Pin 7.

 

Mitch

 

 

Could that be solved by rewiring?

 

Well the standard Sega pads work on Atari because the pullup resistor between Select and VCC passes enough current to allow the multiplex chip to function. Some six button models have issues with Batari Basic games that read the "C" button however. There is an easy fix for this: Connect a reverse bias diode between pins 5 and 7. The positive end of the diode connects to pin 7 and the negative end connects to pin 5. On a Sega system, this diode will do absolutely nothing, but on an Atari system, it will ensure that VCC never drops below 4.4V, ensuring proper logic operation.

 

That said, I have no idea how the Sega trackball works. If it uses standard gray code on the dpad inputs, then there is a good chance it may work with rewiring or the diode fix. However if it uses multiplexing like the Sega Genesis controllers, no amount of rewiring will fix it.



#57 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:42 AM

I found this doc about the Sega Trackball.

 

No Gray code or anything similar.

 

BTW: Here is an instruction how to make a Wico Trackball Amiga mouse compatible, so that it would work with the above trackball hacks too. Converting to a CX80/ST mouse compatible one should be very, very similar.


Edited by Thomas Jentzsch, Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:49 AM.


#58 BigO OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:35 AM

Is it the Amiga mouse or the ST mouse that uses proper Gray code? 



#59 SpiceWare OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:51 AM

Is it the Amiga mouse or the ST mouse that uses proper Gray code? 

 

They both do.  The sequence and controller pins they're connect to are different which is why you can't use an Amiga mouse on an ST and vice versa.



#60 BigO OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:13 AM

 

They both do.  The sequence and controller pins they're connect to are different which is why you can't use an Amiga mouse on an ST and vice versa.

Thanks. That explains the specific software versions.

So, when I tap into the buffered output from the optical encoders in my old Wico trackball, it's just a matter of where I route the signals. 

Thanks for the links. I skimmed around looking for that detail and managed to miss it.

 

Time permitting, I may try doing something with a semi-dead 5200 trackball.


Edited by BigO, Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:13 AM.


#61 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:13 PM

I found this doc about the Sega Trackball.

 

No Gray code or anything similar.

 

BTW: Here is an instruction how to make a Wico Trackball Amiga mouse compatible, so that it would work with the above trackball hacks too. Converting to a CX80/ST mouse compatible one should be very, very similar.

Okay so it strobes coordinate data for X and Y. Kinda like the SNES mouse. The Sega Trackball is pretty much useless then. 



#62 Omegamatrix OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:17 PM

Thomas Jentzsch has done it again!!

 

Now there are PAL50 and PAL60 versions for Centipede and Reactor added to the first post. :)



#63 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:36 PM

For both games, the original PAL versions where converted pretty badly:

  • Both do not utilize the larger screen at all
  • Centipede does not adjust the speeds and even some colors are not converted 
  • Reactor has only some speed adjustments

Therefore I strongly suggest using the PAL60 versions.

 

BTW: While the NTSC ROM shows traces of a Galaxian prototype (12-3.82) in the unused ROM space, the PAL version has RealSports Tennis code there.



#64 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:09 PM

New conversion: The Challenge of Nexar

 

I fixed a minimal sound bug for the incoming beacons in all versions. The original PAL conversion was just two bytes for the timer changed. I also converted the NTSC colors in my hacks, but no speed adjustments. So I suggest using the PAL-60 versions. 

 

The games becomes quite playable now, definitely much better than with a joystick.

Tip: Shooting the saucers increases the changes for a beacon. The initial beacon chance is 1/16, it increases by 1/256 with each saucer (or beacon) killed. So e.g. after 16 kills the chance has doubled to 1/8.

 

BTW: As always the ROMs (all nine :)) can be found in the first post.


Edited by Thomas Jentzsch, Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:16 PM.


#65 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 1, 2015 1:10 PM

Awesome, thanks for this TJ!

 

What's next, Driving Controller support and your crosshairs relegated to the outer edge of the playfield? Would *really* feel like a Tempest clone then!    :lol:



#66 iesposta OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 1, 2015 2:22 PM

New conversion: The Challenge of Nexar

...

 

BTW: As always the ROMs (all nine :)) can be found in the first post.

Thank you!

love The Challenge of Nexar!

Since I had it as a kid, I can't say if it is a good game. 

 

I hope and will pay for Trak-Ball shooting gallery games like "Shootin' Gallery" Imagic; "Crossbow", Atari.

 

"Shooting Arcade" prototype Atari 1989 would need the light gun code replaced with a cursor, but with 6 scenes has potential, also since accuracy is horrible as reported by those that did play with a light gun. 


Edited by iesposta, Sun Nov 1, 2015 2:25 PM.


#67 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 1, 2015 3:17 PM

What's next, Driving Controller support and your crosshairs relegated to the outer edge of the playfield? Would *really* feel like a Tempest clone then!     :lol:

Yea, it definitely has some Tempest feeling to it. Problem with the Driving Controller is, that the resolution is very low compared to a track ball.



#68 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 1, 2015 3:19 PM

I hope and will pay for Trak-Ball shooting gallery games like "Shootin' Gallery" Imagic; "Crossbow", Atari.
 
"Shooting Arcade" prototype Atari 1989 would need the light gun code replaced with a cursor, but with 6 scenes has potential, also since accuracy is horrible as reported by those that did play with a light gun.

Adding a new object to six existing kernels seems a bit unlikely. But I haven't look at it at all yet.

First I will have a look at Ixion. This game seems like a perfect choice.

Edited by Thomas Jentzsch, Sun Nov 1, 2015 3:21 PM.


#69 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 4, 2015 10:10 AM

When you get it I'd be interested in a review. Also does it read as a CX22 in Atari mode. I assume it does...

The Alfa-Data TB reads CX80/ST-Mouse and Amiga.

 

I got one of those:

s-l225.jpg
 

 

Those are more common:

s-l225.jpg


Edited by Thomas Jentzsch, Wed Nov 4, 2015 10:18 AM.


#70 78001987 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 4, 2015 10:38 AM

HOLY CRAP AWESOME!!!!

 

Millipede absolutely rocks.



#71 Omegamatrix OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 4, 2015 2:30 PM

The Alfa-Data TB reads CX80/ST-Mouse and Amiga.
 
I got one of those:
s-l225.jpg
 
 
Those are more common:
s-l225.jpg

Does the one which is more common have firebuttons? I can't tell from the pic.

For yours, how does it feel? Do you use left hand for track ball and right for firebutton? Which firebutton is used?

#72 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2015 3:15 AM

When I got it, it worked, just felt a bit rough. I open it and cleaned it. Now one axis is perfect but the other one gets stuck repeatedly :(. I'll have to look at it again,

 

I am left handed so the design fits me well, only used the left button so far. Have to check what the other one does, but I suppose that's the right (mouse) button

 

The other model seems to have three buttons, probably two for the same function. And the ball is illuminated.



#73 DEANJIMMY OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2015 9:50 AM

Missile Command is available in the shop (section hacks) and I ordered it some years ago and still love to play it (with CX80 identical to CX22) ;-)

 

Will some of other games listed in this thread show up in the shop in the near future?

Ordering a custom cartridge with the binary should not be possible "without the original author's permission" (referring to a note in the shop).

 

It is a shame that no original game was released for 2600/7800 supporting TB mode of the CX80/CX22, as I really like this controller very much indeeed!



#74 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2015 9:59 AM

We haven not talked about this yet. But I am sure, if there is demand, Al will add those hacks to the store.



#75 Dinorast73 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2015 10:10 AM

I have the other more common Alfa Data one, all 3 fire buttons are useable but the ball itself is not illuminated-that one on the pic must be a modded one. The ball spins very smooth in the controller, like I wrote: perfect for gaming





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