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#1 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2015 12:33 PM

I continue to have disk woes on my TI.

 

I have reseated all cards and the flex cable, I have powered down and back on numerous times, and I CANNOT get this figured out.

 

I lost all the data I had on DSK2.  Then I ran a DM2 test and it showed that the disk was not initialized.  So, when I go to initialize, I get errors 31 OR 32

 

31- Record not found on input

32 Cyclic Redundance Code Error on Input

 

 

I am unsure why I am getting these errors...  The more problems I have with my disk system, the more I think my disk controller card is bad, or at least somewhat compromised.

 

Strangely, DSK3 functions with no problems, and DSK2 functioned without errors up until about an hour ago.  My kid's programming efforts were on DSK2.  :(

 

Anyway, I am going to check all connections inside my external box to make sure something's not awry there.  This whole problem started a year ago or so when my 5.25 disks started corrupting and not reading in DSK1.  Then now DSK2 (3.5") is flaking out in basically the same way.

 

 

I am up for suggestions, fellas.



#2 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2015 1:01 PM

I'd guess it is less likely that your controller is bad, because the other drives obviously work properly. Most controllers cannot handle more than one drive; the switch between drives is handled externally on the board. Rather, the drive seems to become faulty. Try to exchange the hardware (DSK2<->DSK3). In the best case, the floppy disk itself is bad.

 

Error 31 seems to be a failed verify, i.e. the controller was looking for a particular sector but could not find it on the track. This could be caused by a CRC error in the header. Error 32 may be a CRC error in the data part. CRC errors are those where some bits are wrong in a data block that is guarded by a CRC checksum, as are the sector headers and the sector payloads.



#3 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2015 1:11 PM

Excellent info. Thank you.

I have tried to initialize other disks as well with the same result. I do have an extra 3.5" drive I can try out.

I had this same issue (or one similar) on my 5.25 drive back in Denver... That is what led me to believe it was a controller issue.

I will take my external box apart tonight and see if there are any obvious issues... If not, I will swap the drive and see if that fixes it.

#4 Lee Stewart OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2015 3:41 PM

I don't know whether this would cause the problems you are having; but, I have a couple of TEAC FD55BR 5.25" drives that were mounted on their sides in one of my PEBs.  There is a sheet-metal shield (looks like stainless steel) that is foam-tape mounted on top of the upper head.  The foam or the mastic holding things together deteriorated over time and the shields started slipping off of the heads.  One actually fell off.  Again, not sure this would cause your problems.

 

...lee



#5 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2015 4:12 PM

Media sounds like a likely issue but the question that came to my mind...

 

Do these drives have terminating resistors?  If so, which drives and where are the drives connected on the cable(s)?   Did you make any changes a year ago, i.e., add a new drive without adjusting termination?



#6 Schmitzi OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2015 4:14 PM

Yeah, I had the same issue on a newtronic-drive, but it worked for a long time without this shield/plate, had no prob.

(but it was fallen down in that way that there was no problem:)   )

 

Some thoughts on the problem here:

 

I would try to isolate the issue.

Means, use a new cable, and if possible one (spare/new) drive only, for a test.

And make sure that the floppydrive has working resistors/terminators set.

 

If you are sure that cable and drive are definitely OK, so the problem should come from the controller.

If you don´t have another controller or PEB for a test, you could - at least - reseat the controller to slot 7 in the PEB.

But please be sure to wait with pulling the controller for 2 minutes after pulling the power.

And you could check the pins on the controller, for condition & contact.

 

Maybe you have too much power-consumption for your PEB´s powersupply (2 drives running) ?

(what you can determine if you run with 1 drive only)

 

One time I had 2 drives which needed a head-cleaning the same time.....



#7 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2015 5:10 PM

I have a 5.25" drive in my PBox. I have a separate box that is powered that runs teo 3.5 drives.

I have not made any changes to my setup in 4 years except to add an HDX mod to my rs232.

The media was my first thought as well, Tim. A year or so ago, I bought a couple new unopened boxes of 5.25 disks to see if that was the issue. Those had the same issues.... Just all of a sudden losing formatting or the drives failing to read them.

#8 Schmitzi OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2015 5:19 PM

...so you could pull the RS232(HDX)-card for a test, and you have another PEB where from you can use the controller for a test.



#9 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2015 5:55 PM

I have 2 spare PEBs, no cards in them. :(

#10 marc.hull OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2015 7:15 PM

I have 2 spare PEBs, no cards in them. :(


When was the last time you cleaned the drives Owen?

#11 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2015 8:00 PM

I cleaned the 5.25" when I was having the issues a year or so ago. I have not cleaned the 3.5s in a little over 3 years I would say, now that I think about it. The majority of that time they were in plastic totes sealed up because of all the moving we have done.

#12 Tursi OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2015 9:19 PM

 A year or so ago, I bought a couple new unopened boxes of 5.25 disks to see if that was the issue.

 

Silly question, I'm sure, but they are not HD floppies, are they? You need to use double density or lower floppies -- HD diskettes will appear to work sometimes and fail others in a lower density drive because they require a stronger magnetic drive to write properly.



#13 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2015 10:09 PM

Yes, and not a silly question.

They were DSDD, which I formatted to DSSD. They would sometimes initialize and save my programs... Would work great for a few days and then errors would start popping up and then the drive would no longer read the disks. That is when I cleaned the drive and cleaned all contacts, checked connections, etc.

Then we moved, so I never really resolved the issues.

Now I am 'home' and I am trying to get my ish in gear.

#14 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 7, 2015 2:05 AM

Hey Marc,

 

I cleaned the drive.  

 

 

 

Still a no go.  Tomorrow I am going to try to re-seat and clean the contacts, maybe try a different slot in the PBox.  I'll let you know what I find.  



#15 sparkdrummer OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 7, 2015 2:58 AM

Owen
Did you clean and lightly lube the stepper rails?
I have had problems with that before where the grease on the rails gets old and turns to goo which makes it hard for the stepper to get to where it needs to go on the disk accurately and consistently.

#16 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 7, 2015 10:28 AM

I did not... I am afraid I have never done much more than clean the heads on any of my drives. Perhaps it is time to do some research and really dig in.

#17 aftyde OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 8, 2015 6:54 PM

Try swapping consoles.  I have found with my P-Code card that with the "shiny pretty console" it fails about half the time - weird errors and such.  If I swap it out with "ugly scratched up console" it works like a champ every time.  I have had strange problems in the past that seemed like it should be PEB centered but turned out to be the computer itself.



#18 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 8, 2015 7:09 PM

... with the "shiny pretty console" it fails about half the time - weird errors and such.  If I swap it out with "ugly scratched up console" it works like a champ every time.

 

Transplant time! 'Shiny pretty console' needs 'ugly's' guts!

 

masks-doctor-swine-flu-200x150.jpg



#19 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 9, 2015 1:31 AM

A new symptom (or maybe not new, just newly discovered)

 

I have tried loading programs from 3 or 4 5.25" disks... All of them Catalog fine, but when I try to load and run them, I have missing characters, strange stuff on the screen, and an all-around mess.  I thought (initially) it was a disk problem, but I tried 4 disks that contained XB games and programs, and all would load, but none would run because of the missing colons, strange spaces, etc.

 

This could be related to the issues I have been having. 



#20 Willsy OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 9, 2015 3:02 AM

Get the buffers in the Flex interface changed, and, while you're at it, the buffers in the console, too (they're at the side, right next to the expansion port).

 

These machines are also at the age where the originally fitted capacitors are going to fail. We're seeing that in the ZX Spectrum world - degrading TV output signal. Changing the caps in the RF modulator instantly fixes the problem. I would not be surprised if the various smoothing caps fitted both in the console, and in the expansion cards, are beginning to fail.



#21 Tursi OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 9, 2015 5:38 AM

We've been pretty lucky with the TI so far, but yeah, it's happening. Unfortunately it's a bit of trial and error to pin down the fault... I'd agree with Willsy that it's starting to sound like buffers. You might be able to prove that if you have both a spare console and a spare flex cable interface, and see if they work differently against the PEB.

 

Get the buffers in the Flex interface changed, and, while you're at it, the buffers in the console, too (they're at the side, right next to the expansion port).

 

These machines are also at the age where the originally fitted capacitors are going to fail. We're seeing that in the ZX Spectrum world - degrading TV output signal. Changing the caps in the RF modulator instantly fixes the problem. I would not be surprised if the various smoothing caps fitted both in the console, and in the expansion cards, are beginning to fail.



#22 RickyDean OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 9, 2015 6:48 AM

Yeh, just this weekend, as I am trying to piece together an older pc system, capable of doing single density, so that I can rip what TI disk, I can, popped a cap. Nice fizzle, let out the working smoke.



#23 Stuart ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 9, 2015 7:12 AM

Yeh, just this weekend, as I am trying to piece together an older pc system, capable of doing single density, so that I can rip what TI disk, I can, popped a cap. Nice fizzle, let out the working smoke.

 

If you buy a can of capacitor smoke off eBay you should be able to pour it back in to repair it. ;-)



#24 RickyDean OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 9, 2015 7:35 AM

yeh, tried that once, but couldn't find my smoke funnel to syphon it back into the cap.



#25 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 9, 2015 10:53 AM

I have a spare console but (stupidly) sold my spare flex interface... Aaaarrrrggghhhh!!!!!




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