How come a lot getting into retro games skip Atari?

[ledzep]

Yes, good for me and good for the industry too.

What industry? The topic at hand is people getting into retro games skipping the Atari. Assuming that means actually owning/collecting/playing vintage gear that means there is no "industry". You can't even include Atari/Activision collections for newer systems since that isn't really even collecting the retro systems, just playing the emulated games. There's no noticeable profit to be made dealing with used consoles or controllers or games, neither through selling small runs of homebrew games. An individual can make a few bucks but that's no "industry".

 

You mean archaic controllers where the control schemes are awkward as hell to use on damn near almost anything (the Intellivision disc pad and the colecovision), where the joysticks are cheap and prone to breaking, (the atari 2600) or are unmitigated disasters with non-centering joysticks and fire buttons that wear out (Atari 5200).

This isn't an argument. This is just whining. If you can't adapt to different control schemes, that's your problem. Some people want more variety than a d-pad for every game.

 

To say that there is an "appeal" for the older systems because they are "unique" doesn't really seem like a selling point. Novelty? Sure. A game room discussion peice. Absolutely. But to say that the "unique controllers" are in anyway "more accurate" is patently absurd. Considering that a good number of older retro gamers do in fact either mod their older systems to accept NES or Master System controllers or will simply plug in a Sega Genesis Model 1 controller where applicable.

 

Yes, some of the unique controllers are more accurate. Specifically the analog ones (paddles, trak-balls, spinners, analog sticks) with a variable speed element to the change in direction. Of course there are many games that don't require that and so digital joysticks and d-pads will work more or less fine. But if you need a variable speed for a paddle like in Warlords or Breakout, having only left/right buttons or a joystick is unacceptable, there's no option for a quicker direction change or a faster move to the left or right edge, it's just a constant slide left or right. Same for games that require spinners and true trak-balls.

 

For an older guy you seem to speaking for a lot people in the retrogaming community when it appears you are simply speaking for your self.

For a younger guy you seem to be speaking for a lot of people in the retrogaming community when it appears you are simply speaking for yourself. Based on the responses I've seen already I'm not alone in my views about one of the key differences with older Atari type consoles (and arcade games) when compared to the newer NES/SNES style games. Which, again, is what this topic seems to be about.

 

You seem to be arguing that everyone likes the same things and for the same reasons. If that were true then this entire thread would be pointless since either all or no people into retro games would skip Atari, yes? Yet some/many do. Why? It must be a different mindset or preference of some type, correct? Ok, that's what I'm talking about.

 

That is extremely debatable.

Not at all. Analog controllers cannot be reproduced well with digital controls.

 

Here's an experiment for you to try sometime. See if you can find a RC airplane or car that uses only digital controls. No analog sticks or steering wheels or throttles, just buttons for left, right, up and down (for the plane). You won't. But, ok, trying building such a useless controller for a RC airplane or car. And then see if you can get even a 10th of the control and accuracy you'd get from the original unique control scheme the airplane or car was meant for. That is the exact same difference with playing, say, Tempest with the original spinner type control vs. attempting the same with a digital joystick or d-pad. Yes, you can manage to play Tempest that way but it will be a miserable experience in comparison to how it is supposed to play. Same goes for Missile Command trak-ball vs. d-pad.

 

Considering that Breakout had some damn near great updates and ports to the NES and Famicom Disk System and all but one port of the game made use of the NES/Famicom controller. (I believe Arkanoid was specifically programmed for the Famicom trackball) And the fact that Missile Command, Asteroids, Centipede, etc all had great ports to the Gameboy lends me to believe that either you haven't played them or never gave the d-pad a real chance.

 

If the Famicom controller is also a little cross of directional buttons like the NES d-pad then it's garbage for a game like Breakout. Use. Less. Now, the Famicom trackball, that's entirely different. If it functions like a true trak-ball (not the joystick mode that the 2600 apparently uses) then kudos, that's a great addition and no self-respecting Famicom owner should be without one if he was playing the paddle/trak-ball games of old like Arkanoid or Centipede. But, why offer something like a trak-ball if the d-pad is so fantastic? Could it be that even Nintendo realized that not all games were at their best with 4 directional buttons? The Gameboy has the same controller so the same uselessness for games like Breakout.

 

Yes, it is possible to play those games with a d-pad. It's also possible to eat soup with a fork but why try when there are spoons available?

 

This isn't an agument. This is just whining.

No shit. Considering the game originally came out in 1989 for a PC that had a GUI and mouse peripheral and never got a console port.

Again, what in thee fuck are you talking about.

 

 

It most definitely was ported to a console. With the correct controller.

 

Here's the thing. You can play Ultima on the NES with a d-pad. You can play detective games and early forms of visual novels and first person exploration games on the Famicom with a d-pad. You can play Sim city on SNES with a d-pad (a damn good game I might add). To say you can't imagine is kind of silly considering it's been done to death.

Here's the thing. That has nothing to do with the games I was talking about which I couldn't imagine playing using a d-pad. Cherry-picking, tsk tsk. Sure, there are many games that wouldn't suffer from using a d-pad (digital joystick games, button games). I was talking about games that would suffer from such a worthless controller, games like Breakout and Missile Command and Star Raiders and Centipede and many others. Mostly because I've played them the way they were meant to be played, I can't use an inadequate controller after the fact. If I only knew modern consoles and nothing but digital gamepad controllers then I wouldn't know what I was missing, obviously.

 

Oh look somebody making claims without giving evidence. Meanwhile in reality, you can play supposedly "superior" trakball games on a d-pad just fine.

 

Hahaaha, that is pathetic, the blaster is moving at a constant speed! And a slow speed at that. That is not "just fine", that is shit. Sure, it looks like Tempest, the graphics are pretty good, but the gameplay is ruined.

 

Thank you for providing evidence that supports my position. Have you ever actually played a Tempest arcade game? A real one? I am guessing not because you would instantly find that constant speed of movement in the Gameboy version unacceptable. You would also know that Tempest uses a spinner, not a trak-ball. A trak-ball is close (the recently released 5200 version uses the trak-ball as well) but nothing matches a spinner.

 

Maybe sometime get a MAME version of Tempest going, with a spinner, get used to it, get really good at it, then try it again with a digital joystick or some directional buttons, see what an abomination it becomes. I know old school gamers (including myself) who don't even like playing the Tempest conversion Major Havoc because the conversion many times uses the Tempest spinner instead of the horizontal roller of the dedicated cabinet. It's close, better than nothing, but at the same time it's wrong. No way would any of us consider a d-pad version, haahaaha, that's just dumb.

 

I'm sorry but does Yar's Revenge magically change into a different game the moment you plug a Sega Genesis Model 1 controller in the standard Atari VCS controller port? No, I didn't think so.

For someone who complains about cherry-picking I'm surprised you picked Yar's Revenge since that's a joystick game. The 2600 digital joystick is the closest thing you can get to a d-pad control scheme so your example would obviously support your view that switching to a d-pad wouldn't matter. But you probably knew that? Maybe not. Marble Madness, on the other hand, would in fact magically change into a different game if you subjected it to the horror of d-pad control.

 

Because games magically change into another game once you play with a d-pad. Well, perhaps they do change.....into something better and playable.

Many games do, yes. All trak-ball games, all paddle games, all spinner games, if controller speed is part of the feel. Analog joystick games suffer less but still aren't the same. Compare between the flight control feel of Atari 400/800 Star Raiders (with the stock 2600 joystick) and the Atari 5200 Star Raiders (with the analog stick). Very very different. I prefer the 5200 version, feels closer to actual flight direction (like the Star Wars arcade game) but since it first came out on the Atari computers it can be argued that the 5200 version is wrong. I agree, but I still like the analog stick version. But even that switch matters.

 

No way is the d-pad better for those games. Only someone unfamiliar with those analog games would think something that off-base.

 

Must be why the arcade scene ended up dying out only to be revitalized by fighting and racing games in the 90's, only to die out yet again.

That's your guess? The arcade scene died due to many factors, too many to go into here.

 

Not necessarily. The SNES could get around this very easily by simply mapping the thrust and deceleration configuration to either two of the 4 face buttons or the 2 shoulder buttons. In fact, how do you think Pilotwings, one of the best games on the system, handles? (In fact The 16-bit gen would see a lot of previously unported pc flight sim games.) The NES simply wasn't designed for the multi-button arcade ports. However, that has absolutely zero bearing on whether or not you can play a flight sim game or a game like Star trek: SOS on a d-pad. To which, the answer is unequivocally: yes.

 

It has zero bearing to people like you who don't care about the differences, clearly. But to others, like myself, it means a great deal. I know the NES simply wasn't designed for multi-button arcade ports. Neither was it designed for the different unique controller schemes of many arcade games. Which makes it a waste of time for someone like myself. Obviously many many people love the NES/SNES, it's popularity isn't in question. Yet again, I'm talking about why someone who is younger and into retro games, as discussed in this thread, would not be interested in older Atari consoles.

 

Can you play Star Trek: SOS or a flight sim with only a d-pad? Yes, of course, if someone programmed such a version. Would it be anywhere near as good as a version with the correct controls? The answer is unequivocally: no.

 

Except games like Super Mario Bros were not only praised for it's graphical innovations but were praised because of the fact that the controls were tight and the level design great. In fact, Super Mario Brothers 3 became the de-facto standard by which all games are measured vis a vis tight mechanics. Super Mario Bros 3 is the sumum bonum of how a game can be controlled with such fluidity and ease.

When did I say Super Mario Bros 3 had good graphics and shitty gameplay? Ah, right, I didn't. More cherry-picking, for shame. Super Mario Bros 3 is a platform game designed specifically for the NES! How does that relate to arcade style games on the 2600? All I was getting at was that the 2600 had such poor graphics that nobody was going to be fooled into buying a 2600 game because it had great graphics and then find out later that the gameplay sucked. The gameplay might suck but the graphics weren't going to be a factor.

 

More fucking whining about graphics. As if games like Castlevania, Megaman, Kirby's adventure, the Legend of Zelda series, Contra, Bionic Commando, the Mario Brothers series, Nazo No Murasame Joh, Kid Icarus, Sonic 2, Adventure Island, Summer Carnival '92 Recca, Smash Tv, the Kunio-kun series, Eggerland, double dragon, Little Nemo, Bomberman, TNMT: the Arcade, Excitebike, Ballon Fight, SCAT, Gradius, Duck Tales, Ninja Gaiden, Shatterhand, Metroid, Rad Racer, Faxanadu, Bubble Bobble, Blaster master, Punch-out, Final Fantasy, Splatterhouse: Wanpaku Graffiti, and Holy Diver don't exist.

You aren't paying attention. I wasn't talking about graphics, I was talking about how a crappy 2600 game wouldn't be able to hide behind really good graphics. Do you understand?

 

All the games you just listed, how many of them would look even close to decent on the 2600? I'm going to guess none. Passable, possibly. Recognizable, even. But since the 2600 had such poor graphics the only thing that programmers could really concentrate on was gameplay. And sometimes they screwed that up, too. But for younger gamers who grew up with the NES/SNES or better, tolerating blocky 2600 graphics might be asking too much which would be why, yet again, it could be a consideration for why many of those people getting into retro games would skip the Atari.

 

Your complaints would be better served if directed against modern AAA games on 9th gen modern hardware. That's something I generally agree upon. But these complaints about the era in question or the Nintendo consoles in general are either severely unwarranted, reek of severe desperation, or are opinions that have no basis in fact.

They're not complaints, they're observations. Ok, I do complain about the d-pad because it's crap (and I'm far from alone on that score) and I'm no fan of platform games. But I only bring those things up in an attempt to explain how it's possible that a lot of people getting into retro games (you know, the subject of this thread) skip Atari. As someone who prefers Atari, even the lowly 2600, I think I have at least a partial view into the reasoning.

 

 

 

 

What's that? You posted images of non-standard arcade cabinets or cabinets that had special mechanisms for controls? Talk about cherry-picking.

 

Ya, including a picture of a Defender control panel like the game you have in your last image. Sad that you didn't pick up on that. So, why are you posting images of "non-standard" arcade cabinets? And the image above that one included Rapid Fire, which uses light guns, haahaha. So is that a "standard" arcade cabinet?

 

Where do you get this idea that there's a "standard" arcade cabinet? Back in the day, back in the Atari 2600 day (late '70s), many arcade cabinets had special mechanisms for controls. You didn't know that?! Do you think all arcade cabinets had a joystick and 2-4 buttons? Dude, wake up. There were horizontal screens, vertical screens, vector monitors, trak-balls, buttons only, paddles, steering wheels, analog joysticks, spinners, cockpit cabinets, cocktail cabinets, all kinds of shit. Your one repetitive design layout utopia didn't show up for years.

 

You could. But the problem is that Atari 2600 joysticks are not only pretty damn cheap, they aren't built for that force in mind. Hence why Nintendo actually put out a joystick controller with that in mind.

This isn't an argument. This is just whining. I owned a 2600 for years (got one as a kid when they were new). The joysticks aren't arcade quality but they held up for years and years of constant play from me and my brother and our friends. So "pretty damn cheap" is an exaggeration. They are most definitely built to be used on a flat surface like an arcade cabinet set-up, too. Many times we held the joysticks in our hands because there was no table handy to set them on. Worked fine either way.

 

And yet these same older types are looking for ways to mod thier 7800 and 5200 to accept the NES or Master system controllers. Looking for ways to make the colecovision run through a standard d-pad or are simply plugging in a Sega Genesis model 1 controller into an Atari 2600.

Some of them are, sure. And others aren't. So what. Have you seen the extra controllers that Fury Unlimited made for the Vectrex? I'll give you a hint, none of them were any miserable d-pads.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

If the Famicom controller is also a little cross of directional buttons like the NES d-pad then it's garbage for a game like Breakout. Use. Less. Now, the Famicom trackball, that's entirely different. If it functions like a true trak-ball (not the joystick mode that the 2600 apparently uses) then kudos, that's a great addition and no self-respecting Famicom owner should be without one if he was playing the paddle/trak-ball games of old like Arkanoid or Centipede. But, why offer something like a trak-ball if the d-pad is so fantastic? Could it be that even Nintendo realized that not all games were at their best with 4 directional buttons? The Gameboy has the same controller so the same uselessness for games like Breakout.

 

Yes, it is possible to play those games with a d-pad. It's also possible to eat soup with a fork but why try when there are spoons available?

 

Again, what in thee fuck are you talking about.

 

 

It most definitely was ported to a console. With the correct controller.

The Famicom "mystery controller" was not a trackball but a custom paddle controller for use with Arkanoid. The Breakout clone game came bundled with the Vaus, which contained an ADC inside it alongside the parallel-serial interface, because natively the NES/Famicom was not equipped to handle analog signal. And playing Arkanoid/Breakout with a Vaus is a much improved experience over using the Dpad, no contest there.

 

Here is a picture of the North American version. The Paddle knob is shown on the bottom of the controller with the fire button on the top.

 

The Famicom version is similar but is colored black and plugs into the Expansion port on the Famicom. Also the Famicom version is wired differently internally to the console compared to the NES version, so you cannot play the Japan-only Arkanoid II Famicom port on the NES with a US Vaus as the NES controller port does not have access to the necessary inputs.

[The Usotsuki]

If you were to ask me what my ideal console controller would be, it would be something like the NES Advantage. Real arcade parts (so a half-step up from the Advantage which only partially used real arcade parts) and stick on the left. But bare-bones, no turbo or slomo.

[Jinks]

 

The reason to skip atari is no nostalgia for it. Younger generation with little to no interest or knowledge about it. Just blah blah ear rape atari et worst ever game blah blah senseless shit.

I still to this day have not put in the time in any game like 2600 missle command and yars revenge. Story games are pick up and throw away. Score and level based are a lifetime. But press X to watch cut scene and Y to win game gamers can never be expected to understand so never argue with the ME generation. Will just say My bad and SICK and EPIC and smoke more pot in thier moms basement.

[Jinks]

Not only that Atari was the first extremely popular console that was shared by kids for the first time in history. As the parents of those kids had no idea about video games and everyone watched in awe as a player could move things on the tv. We made names for all the blocks and everything coulld be super important like naming the cities on missle command to ones close to home and protecting them from the ussr's missles.

Even playing armour ambush two player was fun and frantic. Today by yourself it is lame and boring.

[FUBARofPittsburgh]

I'm 25 so obviously I didn't grow up with Atari. I remember I was 12 when I started researching old Atari games, old NES games etc. I got my hands on a 2600 when I was 20 and I love it. I can play Atari for hours. However, I've only met one retro gamer my age who likes Atari. For most, they stop at NES. A lot dismiss what came before it.

 

I've heard from other retro gamers

"Atari is bad"

"Atari is boring"

"Gaming didn't get good until Nintendo"

"Only hipsters like Atari"

 

Most retro gamers I know also dismiss Sega and love anything Nintendo released in the past. Why is this? I would say personal preference but I'd say a good 85% of retro gamers my age adore Nintendo and dismiss Sega and especially dismiss Atari.

 

I have many fond memories of Atari. Considering the limitations of the time, it did amazing stuff.

[high voltage]

 

Oh look a Famicom joystick, from Nintendo.

[high voltage]

 

Oh look a popular NES Speed King joystick from Konix, improved gameplay 100 % That's the one I use on NES actually, perfect.

Edited November 28, 2015 by high voltage

[empsolo]

The reason to skip atari is no nostalgia for it. Younger generation with little to no interest or knowledge about it. Just blah blah ear rape atari et worst ever game blah blah senseless shit.

I still to this day have not put in the time in any game like 2600 missle command and yars revenge. Story games are pick up and throw away. Score and level based are a lifetime.

Story based games being throwaway? Considering the fact that many of these story driven games would have harder difficulties and a plethora of secrets to find and show to friends. There is a reason why people still play Mega Man II and Castlevania 25 years after the original release. As for hi-score and level based games? You do realize that Nintendo first party titles have retained hi-score counters for most of their titles. Even Super Mario 3d World for the Wii U still retains a hi-score counter in an age where the concept of scoring is dead.

 

 

 

But press X to watch cut scene and Y to win game gamers can never be expected to understand so never argue with the ME generation. Will just say My bad and SICK and EPIC and smoke more pot in thier moms basement.

This is generally a problem for the modern AAA industry. But this is a criticism that's not really applicable to Nintendo where the philosophy is still design and controls first and story second.

[Jinks]

Concept of scoring is dead nuff said.

Yes throwaway story based games. I guess play it again 35 years later once as replayable. I dont see anyone ever picking up smb for a quick game and do that 4 times a week for 10 years. It is learn the secrets and cheats and playthru once finished it becomes a collectors item piece I guess. Maybe to be played with a friend to say look what I can do but really what is the point?

My theroy is proven by the used game market of tons of modern types of games being sold cause they were already watched.. I mean "played"

[bretthorror]

It's readily apparent a lot of you know absolutely zero about gaming beyond a 5 year run in the 70s/80s. By comparison, movies would have never made it out of the silent era.

 

There are hundreds of new arcade style indie titles out there for a buck or two on Steam. Today's gaming world is the best it has ever been. Every genre is being well accounted for

[Jinks]

It's readily apparent a lot of you know absolutely zero about gaming beyond a 5 year run in the 70s/80s. By comparison, movies would have never made it out of the silent era.

 

There are hundreds of new arcade style indie titles out there for a buck or two on Steam. Today's gaming world is the best it has ever been. Every genre is being well accounted for

Heres a thought. Don't start a anti atari attack bs on an atariage website. You might get some responses you are not able to handle.

[AtariORdead]

The reason to skip atari is no nostalgia for it. Younger generation with little to no interest or knowledge about it. Just blah blah ear rape atari et worst ever game blah blah senseless shit.

I still to this day have not put in the time in any game like 2600 missle command and yars revenge. Story games are pick up and throw away. Score and level based are a lifetime. But press X to watch cut scene and Y to win game gamers can never be expected to understand so never argue with the ME generation. Will just say My bad and SICK and EPIC and smoke more pot in thier moms basement.

you are a bit of a dick aren't you.

[bretthorror]

Heres a thought. Don't start a anti atari attack bs on an atariage website. You might get some responses you are not able to handle.

Please share whatever you're smoking, brah.

[empsolo]

Concept of scoring is dead nuff said.

Yes throwaway story based games. I guess play it again 35 years later once as replayable. I dont see anyone ever picking up smb for a quick game and do that 4 times a week for 10 years.

You do realize there is a highly competitive Super Mario Bros Speed-run and point earning community? You know the same atmosphere that one saw in the pre-crash hi-score fests of earlier consoles?

 

 

 

 

It is learn the secrets and cheats and playthru once finished it becomes a collectors item piece I guess.

Considering these games are still being downloaded in newer consoles through Nintendo's virtual console service and that the mii-verse community has a pretty vibrant and competitive retro-nes gaming scene.

 

 

 

Maybe to be played with a friend to say look what I can do but really what is the point?

You seem pretty ignorant of video games made after 1985.

 

 

 

My theroy is proven by the used game market of tons of modern types of games being sold cause they were already watched.. I mean "played"

Wut.

Edited November 28, 2015 by empsolo

[Andromeda Stardust]

Concept of scoring is dead nuff said.

Yes throwaway story based games. I guess play it again 35 years later once as replayable. I dont see anyone ever picking up smb for a quick game and do that 4 times a week for 10 years....

Gotta stop you right there bud. To say nobody plays these games anymore is folley. As a diehard fan of Super Mario Brothers, I still rescue the princess on a semi-regular basis. Not Mario 3. Not World. Not that wierd game with the vegetables. The original. If I'm in a hurry, I warp. If not, I play straight through at a casual pace, climbing every vine and dropping down every pipe along the way. After besting Bowser, I chillax while blasting ducks on my still working CRT. Gotta love that Mario + Duck Hunt 2-in-1.

 

Heres a thought. Don't start a anti atari attack bs on an atariage website. You might get some responses you are not able to handle.

Why can we not have both? Does it offend you that members of AtariAge may also collect for Nintendo, Sega, or modern consoles?

[HoshiChiri]

My theroy is proven by the used game market of tons of modern types of games being sold cause they were already watched.. I mean "played"

 

I'm not sure we're buying from the same used game market... everything gets sold. Some people don't keep their games no matter what they are. I've never had trouble finding cheap arcade-style titles secondhand- it's not like, say, Warlords is gonna cost more than a couple bucks. Conversely, some story-driven games are terribly expensive. Hell, JRPGs are notorious for high secondhand value, and they're one of the least replayable genres out there. (Acutally, with the right code, you can get Lunar: Sliver Star Story and technically have both!)

 

There are hundreds of new arcade style indie titles out there for a buck or two on Steam. Today's gaming world is the best it has ever been. Every genre is being well accounted for

 

Now this I agree with wholeheartedly- between AAA, midsize publishers, indies and homebrewers, there is not a genre/style/aesthetic someone isn't making a game for. It is most excellent.

 

[Bixler]

I got into retro gaming my freshman year of college (now a senior). Actually, the 2600 was the console I wanted to really collect for. I had little to no time for getting deeply invested into games like I used to back in middle school and high school, I have never had much money to be able to toss to collecting games (I'm not into emulation), and I have always enjoyed arcade games. The 2600 was a jump back from the earliest console I played in my younger years regularly – the N64 – but I figured that the games looked like fun, so I might as well give it a shot.

 

bennybingo on these forums gave me my first dosage of the 2600 with a beautiful Junior model. From there I progressed to a composite/ s-video modded Sears Tele-Games sixer that I use as my main console. I even went so far as to pick up a Harmony cart and put the entire commercail 2600 library onto it. I'm now in the process of selling off some miscellaneous gaming stuff I don't foresee myself ever using again to help save up money to blow on a boatload of homebrew carts from the AA store, probably ~$500 worth. I have fallen in love with the system that much.

 

It provides me with simplistic gaming enjoyment at the end of the day for a brief 20-30 minutes with a cold beer and some relaxing music, which has become my go-to means for destressing at the end of the day or week. It's just a sheer joy to shoot for higher scores on timeless classics.

 

Heck, I've even gotten some of my 21- and 22-year old friends into it with Circus Atari, Breakout, River Raid, and Chopper Command. The primary reason I never delved into S/NES gaming was because of the prohibitive price point of the console and the games with my budget.

 

TL;DR: 2600 forever!

[sandmountainslim]

People born after Atari's heyday just cannot ever understand what Atari was to us Gen X'ers. It was escape, it was fantasy, it was having an arcade in your bedroom. When I was 12 and got my Atari was and always shall be my best birthday and today at 45 my original console is still alive and I have Stella on my laptop and 2600Emu on my phone and tablet. You can never explain to those people who never saw a 2600 commercial on TV what it all means. It's like trying to explain Rock N Roll to a deaf person or sex to a Baptist

[atarilovesyou]

Here's my simple two cents:

 

Atari was born in an age where the main competitive outlet was sports, and that meant keeping score. Pinball had scores, sports, and thus so did the first arcade games: Computer Space, Pong, so on. Two player games for the most part, and people keeping score. Atari games focused on score with only a very few select titles providing a different experience. Super Mario Bros had a score, but an actual ending. Endings came before NES, of course, but they were the ones that made it formulaic. The graphics were good enough to not need too much explanation, and the concepts ring true to this day. Sega did this, all the big companies did this. Sega, however, had more of a hand in the arcade games due to the company line, and that meant score. But scores were kinda pointless there, too: who played Outrun or Afterburner to post a high score? You wanted to see the end of the race, or the mid-air refueling sequence.

 

If competing against your friends for high scores doesn't appeal to you, or trying to beat your own scores, for that fact, then you won't 'get' Atari.

 

I don't get bothered if people don't like Atari, don't get it. It's very much a generational thing, and I don't blame gamers who grew up on the N64 to not get it. It was a product of its time, and those who like it, like it a lot. I know lots of folks in my age group who couldn't give a shit about retro games, and that's fine too. They're the 'STOP LIVING IN THE PAST!" people I don't live in the past, I simply enjoy games from that era better than today's games. "Better" is a relative term. We get all bent outta shape when someone doesn't like something we like?...that's foolishness. You like what YOU like, I'll do likewise and we'll all make it through the night.

 

I love NES, it's no secret. But I've always loved the earlier gen systems. I don't get the systems that came before the Atari VCS for the most part for the same reasons that today's gamers don't get the VCS. It's all gonna be ok

[AtariORdead]

People born after Atari's heyday just cannot ever understand what Atari was to us Gen X'ers. It was escape, it was fantasy, it was having an arcade in your bedroom. When I was 12 and got my Atari was and always shall be my best birthday and today at 45 my original console is still alive and I have Stella on my laptop and 2600Emu on my phone and tablet. You can never explain to those people who never saw a 2600 commercial on TV what it all means. It's like trying to explain Rock N Roll to a deaf person or sex to a Baptist

A Lot of people feel that way over NES and Snes as well.

[Mirage]

To the original question:

 

Do they? Who cares? I like what I like and who cares what anyone else likes or thinks.

[ledzep]

The Famicom "mystery controller" was not a trackball but a custom paddle controller for use with Arkanoid. The Breakout clone game came bundled with the Vaus, which contained an ADC inside it alongside the parallel-serial interface, because natively the NES/Famicom was not equipped to handle analog signal. And playing Arkanoid/Breakout with a Vaus is a much improved experience over using the Dpad, no contest there.

 

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I'm glad someone understands the difference between a d-pad and a paddle for games like Breakout and Arkanoid. I have no dealings with the Famicom Disk System so when I Googled "Famicom Disk System trackball" I found some links to this -

 

 

which apparently is a 3rd party controller. Still, if it functions like a real trak-ball (gray code) then every Famicom owner should buy one. There is no straight substitute for a trak-ball (or other analog style controller), directional buttons are the weakest. Back when I owned a Playstation 1 I ended up buying the Classic Trackball controller for it. A must-have. I also got Time Crisis with the light gun because there would be no way to play it otherwise, even (if the game accepted gamepad input).

 

Here is a picture of the North American version. The Paddle knob is shown on the bottom of the controller with the fire button on the top.

 

The Famicom version is similar but is colored black and plugs into the Expansion port on the Famicom. Also the Famicom version is wired differently internally to the console compared to the NES version, so you cannot play the Japan-only Arkanoid II Famicom port on the NES with a US Vaus as the NES controller port does not have access to the necessary inputs.

Ah, that helps. An analog-to-digital converter in it? Hmm, I wonder how well that works (compared to an actual analog paddle controller). I suppose if a constant left or right signal (like a button) is sent then the Arkanoid paddle would move left or right at its fastest speed but this controller could interpret a slow rotation left or right as being an intermittent left or right signal being sent, causing the paddle to move more slowly? Might work ok at that.

 

I weep for any console that doesn't have a native ability to deal with analog inputs. What a waste!

[ledzep]

To the original question:

 

Do they? Who cares? I like what I like and who cares what anyone else likes or thinks.

 

True. But it is an interesting "problem". I'm not aware of the problem but I don't doubt that the OP has encountered retro gamers who stop at the NES and discount the old Atari consoles. There has to be a reason, or reasons.

 

It could be no nostalgia attachment, but what of those younger retro fans who grew up after the NES/SNES yet still collect those? I can believe that it's also the type of gaming, the Atari is too arcade/score heavy, almost devoid of RPG/environment exploration games. And then there are platform games, which the 2600 and 5200 had very few of as well. Also, the graphics of the 2600 are minimal, the 5200 are better for arcade games but maybe not up to 16-bit shaded/textured objects and characters. Finally, the older consoles accepted and utilized a larger range of controller types for odd-ball games, different styles of games, while a d-pad mindset (no native analog support?) confined games to whatever could be easily manipulated with simple directional buttons, might not be worth hunting down working versions of the lesser-used controllers in order to play some of the games in their native form when an Atari or Activision or Namco Anthology Collection would have all those games converted to d-pad/gamepad controllers already - much less hassle.

 

I suppose the reasons vary for each retro gamer who stops at the NES/SNES line but I'd guess that the reason(s) would be some combination of the points above. I would argue that part of the fun of collecting the older consoles (and going to arcade game conventions) is experiencing the various unique gaming options (analog joysticks, trak-balls, paddles, spinners) that were more common back then. I like Indy 500 precisely because it has those driving controllers that were like the steering wheels on Sprint 2 (spin forever). Maybe younger retro fans couldn't be bothered. As painful to the hands as it can be to try to score a touchdown playing the Atari Football arcade game with that giant trak-ball I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I'm glad someone understands the difference between a d-pad and a paddle for games like Breakout and Arkanoid. I have no dealings with the Famicom Disk System so when I Googled "Famicom Disk System trackball" I found some links to this -

 

 

which apparently is a 3rd party controller. Still, if it functions like a real trak-ball (gray code) then every Famicom owner should buy one. There is no straight substitute for a trak-ball (or other analog style controller), directional buttons are the weakest. Back when I owned a Playstation 1 I ended up buying the Classic Trackball controller for it. A must-have. I also got Time Crisis with the light gun because there would be no way to play it otherwise, even (if the game accepted gamepad input).

 

Ah, that helps. An analog-to-digital converter in it? Hmm, I wonder how well that works (compared to an actual analog paddle controller). I suppose if a constant left or right signal (like a button) is sent then the Arkanoid paddle would move left or right at its fastest speed but this controller could interpret a slow rotation left or right as being an intermittent left or right signal being sent, causing the paddle to move more slowly? Might work ok at that.

 

I weep for any console that doesn't have a native ability to deal with analog inputs. What a waste!

Interesting they did make a trackball for Famicom. I wasn't aware this existed. If it is infact possible to get raw position data out of the controller, I imagine few games supported that mode. And as I mentioned in the other thread on trackball games, any conversion from position data into Dpad/joystick movement is going to feel imprecise. I tried using the Sega Sports Pad trackball on Marble Madness and got disappointment. All the praise it was getting from fans claiming it worked was alledgedly just Dpad emulation as I could not get it to function properly in Sports mode. And the Sports Pad Football game was absolutely horrid. The less I say about it, the better. The CX-53 trackball is one notable exception in the controls department because the 5200 fetched real analog values from the analog controllers which the trackball emulates, resulting in fairly smooth movement onscreen.

 

The ADC in the Vaus controller puts out an 8-bit signal, transmitted serially through the controller interface. So the ADC was true analog control. The Vaus potentiometer does not cover the entire range of 256 positions so there is a calibration pot underneath a rubber grommet to the side of the paddle knob. Once adjusted, the controller yields a perfect 1:1 onscreen movement to rotation of the knob.

 

There is less jitter with the Arkanoid controller compared to an Atari paddle because the Arkanoid uses the pot as a proper voltage divider, converting an analog voltage into a digital value which is transmitted across a series interface. Atari relies on an RC time constant to translate the exact resistance of the pot into a time delay which can be measured by software. The other end of the pot remains ungrounded and there is a length of wire running from the console to the controller. Any fluctuation in voltage, noise, dust on the pot, etc can cause jitters.