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How come a lot getting into retro games skip Atari?


totallyterrificpants

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Interesting they did make a trackball for Famicom. I wasn't aware this existed. If it is infact possible to get raw position data out of the controller, I imagine few games supported that mode. And as I mentioned in the other thread on trackball games, any conversion from position data into Dpad/joystick movement is going to feel imprecise. I tried using the Sega Sports Pad trackball on Marble Madness and got disappointment. All the praise it was getting from fans claiming it worked was alledgedly just Dpad emulation as I could not get it to function properly in Sports mode. And the Sports Pad Football game was absolutely horrid. The less I say about it, the better. The CX-53 trackball is one notable exception in the controls department because the 5200 fetched real analog values from the analog controllers which the trackball emulates, resulting in fairly smooth movement onscreen.

 

The ADC in the Vaus controller puts out an 8-bit signal, transmitted serially through the controller interface. So the ADC was true analog control. The Vaus potentiometer does not cover the entire range of 256 positions so there is a calibration pot underneath a rubber grommet to the side of the paddle knob. Once adjusted, the controller yields a perfect 1:1 onscreen movement to rotation of the knob.

 

There is less jitter with the Arkanoid controller compared to an Atari paddle because the Arkanoid uses the pot as a proper voltage divider, converting an analog voltage into a digital value which is transmitted across a series interface. Atari relies on an RC time constant to translate the exact resistance of the pot into a time delay which can be measured by software. The other end of the pot remains ungrounded and there is a length of wire running from the console to the controller. Any fluctuation in voltage, noise, dust on the pot, etc can cause jitters.

 

MAN I DUNNO WHAT THE FUCK YOU JUST SAID

 

.... but as a guy who "started an attack on Atari", I paid $150 shipped for a Bally Astrocade to Canada for the spinner control built in 3 years ago.

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I still cringe when people say Atari is retro gaming. I mean, yes it is, today, obviously. But I was there, I remember.

 

I think you'd hard pressed to find someone who was there in the 1970s to discount Atari as being bad. I do believeit is mostly retrospect looking back to 1983 when the industry crashed. Then comes Nintendo who single handedly resuscitated the entire home video game industry. I mean, people write songs about such things. And yes, I had to walk both ways up hill in the snow barefoot to get to the arcade. =-D

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I still cringe when people say Atari is retro gaming. I mean, yes it is, today, obviously. But I was there, I remember.

 

I think you'd hard pressed to find someone who was there in the 1970s to discount Atari as being bad. I do believeit is mostly retrospect looking back to 1983 when the industry crashed. Then comes Nintendo who single handedly resuscitated the entire home video game industry. I mean, people write songs about such things. And yes, I had to walk both ways up hill in the snow barefoot to get to the arcade. =-D

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I am going to sum up alot of perspectives witnessed here.

 

People who grew up atari also grew up with arcade style games. Then came the crash and a video games evolved. Many older gamers either moved on to computer games, stop buying the newer games, or accepted the new entry of gaming for what it was. There was an an entire generation of gamers that did not grow up with NES, therefore they will not completely understand or appreciate it. Many Atari fans look at the NES as the hostile competition that ruined their favorite childhood memory.

 

Many newer gamers grew up with NES, that often was advertised as cutting edge making older systems obsolete. As the NES generation grew, so did the emphasis on brand new videogame adventures that offered a non arcade experience. The graphics were more detailed, offering a new level gameplay mechanics and depth. The popularity of the newer style gameplay changed the game market, making it arcade style games a thing of the past. This generation of gamers did not grow with Atari and many percieve the system, graphics, etc as prehistoric and simplistic. Many from the NES generation will never give quality Atari games the respect they deserve, nor understand the true limitations that programmers overcame to make several Atari classics.

 

One generation of gamers is trying to say that one style or type of game is better than the other. This simply just demonstrates generational bias. Nobody is right or wrong, it is just perspective. Both generations of games brought many things to home consoles. Both generations of games had quality gems, terrible duds, poor marketing decisions, as well as lasting memories that gamers cling onto today.

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Many from the NES generation will never give quality Atari games the respect they deserve, nor understand the true limitations that programmers overcame to make several Atari classics.

Which is weird. Even Nintendo respects what Atari and others brought forward with their home consoles for the time. Don't believe me. Go to the Nintendo World Store down in Midtown Manhatten and head up to the third floor. From here, head to the back room and you will enter the Nintendo showcase and museum. What will you see? Take a look:

 

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I grew up with pre-atari dedicated consoles. And I like all games except for these mindless smartphone games and games that incessantly bother you about maintaining an internet connection. I can't handle that.

 

I'm also surprised at how many are bitching and complaining about controllers. They are what they are. And there are a thousand choices. I also believe a genuine gamer should be able to adapt to whatever controls are provided (or intended 2B used) with the game - withing reason of course. I wouldn't want to play Kaboom with a keyboard, or flight simulator with a lightgun either.

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I still find it fascinating that the NES brigade has to compare the FamicomNES with the VCS, which was designed to play Pong and Tank games.

 

Even when negative, kudos to Atari for being the most respected and famous console in the world.

 

I find it fascinating how much you dislike the NES. And their 'brigade'. Sega fanboys make NES fanboys look like cream puffs, so I'm sure you know that whole thing about throwing rocks in glass houses.

 

And by the way, your opinion that Atari is the most respected and famous console in the world is, while an admirable notion, just that: your opinion. How you came to that conclusion, who knows. Atari is more respected than Sega? Than Nintendo? Than Sony? Did you go down the street, knock on a few doors and 'get to the bottom of it'? Now THAT'S fascinating.

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I grew up with pre-atari dedicated consoles. And I like all games except for these mindless smartphone games and games that incessantly bother you about maintaining an internet connection. I can't handle that.

 

I'm also surprised at how many are bitching and complaining about controllers. They are what they are. And there are a thousand choices. I also believe a genuine gamer should be able to adapt to whatever controls are provided (or intended 2B used) with the game - withing reason of course. I wouldn't want to play Kaboom with a keyboard, or flight simulator with a lightgun either.

 

I hear ya, Keats. I believe there is a special room in Hell...it has no doors, no windows...only a Black and White tv, an NES connected to it, Arkanoid hard-wired as the only game you can play, and a control pad welded to the front as the ONLY means of playing it.

 

It's about the worst gaming experience I can think of.

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People born after Atari's heyday just cannot ever understand what Atari was to us Gen X'ers. It was escape, it was fantasy, it was having an arcade in your bedroom. When I was 12 and got my Atari was and always shall be my best birthday and today at 45 my original console is still alive and I have Stella on my laptop and 2600Emu on my phone and tablet. You can never explain to those people who never saw a 2600 commercial on TV what it all means. It's like trying to explain Rock N Roll to a deaf person or sex to a Baptist :)

 

I believe you can explain to them. BUT, exposure to Atari VCS and related tv commercials would have to be their first experience with videogames - not very likely or practical today. And they'd have to be isolated from smartphones and modern internet and other contemporary things. Just as we were in the 70's - isolated because the stuff hadn't been invented yet.. Ok wacko thought..

 

But yes it was just like having an arcade in the bedroom. I had my VCS first and right away when it came out. Within a month or two at longest. Before Christmas '77. It was later in 1981-1982 that I got into the real arcade scene with any seriousness. And there were times I said to myself, why spend money at real arcades? I wasn't good enough so what was the point. There were only a few games I was good at:

 

Missile Command

Liberator

Lunar Lander

Assault

Gyruss

Star Jacker

..a few others

 

I could play those like a savant. Pounding away at the controls for hours on end. But put me in front of a pac-man machine and I'm dead after level 2 or 3. I could read a map better than playing pac-man or any arcade maze-chase game.

 

But anyhow I saw that arcades were charging people money, and one day I went home from school and tried opening my own arcade in the garage. I wanted to capitalize my VCS library, $0.10 per gameplay. It pissed everybody off. "Friends" didn't want to come over anymore. I did much better a couple of years later running a printing business with my Epson MX-80, Apple II, and Br0derbund's Print Shop. That was a real hoot. So damn busy I had to refill the ink-ribbon cartridge by blowing the ink out of a ball-point pen with WD-40. Made a fuck'n mess but 2nd time it worked great. Made banners, book report covers, birthday announcement flyers, BMX awards.

 

I still wish I had my original console and not a fleabay replacement where the cartridge slot was a snot rocket target. All that remains of my original VCS would be the grey colored TIA.

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I find it fascinating how much you dislike the NES. And their 'brigade'. Sega fanboys make NES fanboys look like cream puffs, so I'm sure you know that whole thing about throwing rocks in glass houses.

 

And by the way, your opinion that Atari is the most respected and famous console in the world is, while an admirable notion, just that: your opinion. How you came to that conclusion, who knows. Atari is more respected than Sega? Than Nintendo? Than Sony? Did you go down the street, knock on a few doors and 'get to the bottom of it'? Now THAT'S fascinating.

Never said I dislike the NES, you're jumping to the wrong conclusions. Just dislike those idiots, who come here with no knowledge to badmouthing Atari, raving on about their 'saviour' of the video gaming industry (which was doing just fine anyway), and all round just talking totally bull.... which is usually wrong for starters.

But there you go, not paying attention.

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I am going to sum up alot of perspectives witnessed here.

 

People who grew up atari also grew up with arcade style games. Then came the crash and a video games evolved. Many older gamers either moved on to computer games, stop buying the newer games, or accepted the new entry of gaming for what it was. There was an an entire generation of gamers that did not grow up with NES, therefore they will not completely understand or appreciate it. Many Atari fans look at the NES as the hostile competition that ruined their favorite childhood memory.

 

Many newer gamers grew up with NES, that often was advertised as cutting edge making older systems obsolete. As the NES generation grew, so did the emphasis on brand new videogame adventures that offered a non arcade experience. The graphics were more detailed, offering a new level gameplay mechanics and depth. The popularity of the newer style gameplay changed the game market, making it arcade style games a thing of the past. This generation of gamers did not grow with Atari and many percieve the system, graphics, etc as prehistoric and simplistic. Many from the NES generation will never give quality Atari games the respect they deserve, nor understand the true limitations that programmers overcame to make several Atari classics.

 

One generation of gamers is trying to say that one style or type of game is better than the other. This simply just demonstrates generational bias. Nobody is right or wrong, it is just perspective. Both generations of games brought many things to home consoles. Both generations of games had quality gems, terrible duds, poor marketing decisions, as well as lasting memories that gamers cling onto today.

I think we can all agree on this?
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I believe you can explain to them. BUT, exposure to Atari VCS and related tv commercials would have to be their first experience with videogames - not very likely or practical today. And they'd have to be isolated from smartphones and modern internet and other contemporary things. Just as we were in the 70's - isolated because the stuff hadn't been invented yet.. Ok wacko thought..

 

But yes it was just like having an arcade in the bedroom. I had my VCS first and right away when it came out. Within a month or two at longest. Before Christmas '77. It was later in 1981-1982 that I got into the real arcade scene with any seriousness. And there were times I said to myself, why spend money at real arcades? I wasn't good enough so what was the point. There were only a few games I was good at:

 

Missile Command

Liberator

Lunar Lander

Assault

Gyruss

Star Jacker

..a few others

 

I could play those like a savant. Pounding away at the controls for hours on end. But put me in front of a pac-man machine and I'm dead after level 2 or 3. I could read a map better than playing pac-man or any arcade maze-chase game.

 

But anyhow I saw that arcades were charging people money, and one day I went home from school and tried opening my own arcade in the garage. I wanted to capitalize my VCS library, $0.10 per gameplay. It pissed everybody off. "Friends" didn't want to come over anymore. I did much better a couple of years later running a printing business with my Epson MX-80, Apple II, and Br0derbund's Print Shop. That was a real hoot. So damn busy I had to refill the ink-ribbon cartridge by blowing the ink out of a ball-point pen with WD-40. Made a fuck'n mess but 2nd time it worked great. Made banners, book report covers, birthday announcement flyers, BMX awards.

 

I still wish I had my original console and not a fleabay replacement where the cartridge slot was a snot rocket target. All that remains of my original VCS would be the grey colored TIA.

Great story. I remember printshop on my tandy. Made some banners and stuff with the dot matrix printer like 10 feet long.

It had the nlq button (near letter quality) that printed everything twice.

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But anyhow I saw that arcades were charging people money, and one day I went home from school and tried opening my own arcade in the garage. I wanted to capitalize my VCS library, $0.10 per gameplay. It pissed everybody off. "Friends" didn't want to come over anymore.

 

LOL at charging your "friends" to play Atari. You must have been lonely growing up. I know the feeling well. But at least you had games. My mom refused to buy me a Nintendo growing up. Well at one point she did, but somehow it sat in the garage for ten years and I didn't find out until years later. I still use it as my daily banger, now highly customized... :P

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I see a lot of special snowflake syndrome in this thread, it's what annoys me most about collectors and classic gamers in general. Everything nostalgia based some people (well, all of us, really, because we all have the same emotions for the most part) talk about is how "well it's just never gonna be Atari 2600 again. That was some real gaming" or "it's never gonna be NES again. That was some real gaming". Your Atari 2600 was an arcade in your bedroom. And to us 5 or 6 years younger than you, the NES was an arcade in my bedroom. And then to the folks out there younger than me, the SNES was an arcade in their bedrooms. You're not special and neither am I. It's all the same shit, video games by different companies in your home, but the feeling we all had was virtually the same. Being a fanboy was stupid even as a kid, let alone 30 years later as adults in wars long since fought that none of us had any stake in. All Atari 2600 kids did was bit the marketing fishing line that fed them, the same as every other generation following. There's no other explanation. No one played one console because it was better or worse, for the most part we all just had what was popular and best priced for the times. Our experiences were all the same except it was a slightly different time period. So we all know exactly how the other one feels in regards to growing up with games. The names and games have been changed, but it was the exact same at the core.

 

I pretty much easily explained it way back in the thread why retro gamers may skip Atari and it's because there aren't as many fans out there or if there are, they certainly aren't as vocal and passionate in the internet presence as NES fans. Furthermore, Nintendo is still around in the spotlight, sure the Wii U is shitting the bed, but the Wii sold the most units last gen. And the DS line is the most popular handhelds ever. They play Mario games on new consoles and can easily go back via the Wii Shop to buy the old NES Marios to introduce themselves. They don't have to get on a computer and do video game homework to find NES, they would have to to discover Atari. While retro gaming is popular as a niche, you gotta remember the masses would scoff at NES too when presented with it. The NES is most popular, but it's not like there's one in every kid's household.

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Except Mario Bros was released as a second wave famicom launch title in the fall of 1983. The same year the VCS version came out. So, no. you are still wrong.

 

 

Anyway. Personally, I don't think anybody really dumps on the VCS from the Nintendo side, considering it was on the Coleco and Atari consoles that many Nintendo properties became breakout hits. Hell Nintendolife did a few articles a couple years back that were dedicated to the history of the 2600 and the colecovision. What Nintendo fans do look down upon the earlier pre-crash companies for, is specifially the industries role in the causes for console crash of 1983. Everything from failure to lockdown consoles from unlicensed devs to the sue happy nature of the corporate side of things as way to do business. As well as the fact that the later Warner execs didn't care about putting out quality products. Thinking that people would buy shit in a cart simply because it had the Atari logo on it.

 

That, I think is what really causes the kids my generation, the kids who cut thier teeth on the NES in the 1987-1992 era, to really dismiss companies like Atari, like Mattel. etc. Atari to us, represented the old guard. The old timers who simply could not forsee that that the public would want something new to sink thier teeth into.

 

But that's unfair. Atari created the industry. There was no plan to license any of it to allow other companies to make games for it. Nobody did that before Activision. The companies that made the game systems exclusively made the software for it. That was the business model. Activision only happened because those Atari programmers wanted residuals just like how Hollywood operated because Warner [you know, Warner Bros!] owned Atari. Had Atari still been independent or owned by a conglomerate with no ties to Hollywood, that probably would've never occurred to them. Activision wouldn't have been born and consequently, those various companies that had no business competing in the industry wouldn't have jumped in and the crash wouldn't have ever happened.

 

The whole lock-out chip tech happened because of Custer's Revenge. Atari started the lockout with the encryption they had built into the 7800. It was Nintendo's reaction to the crash that gave them the idea to license third party developers and restrict them with their monopolist strategies. The Famicom itself wasn't as locked down as the later NES was.

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But that's unfair. Atari created the industry. There was no plan to license any of it to allow other companies to make games for it. Nobody did that before Activision. The companies that made the game systems exclusively made the software for it. That was the business model. Activision only happened because those Atari programmers wanted residuals just like how Hollywood operated because Warner [you know, Warner Bros!] owned Atari. Had Atari still been independent or owned by a conglomerate with no ties to Hollywood, that probably would've never occurred to them. Activision wouldn't have been born and consequently, those various companies that had no business competing in the industry wouldn't have jumped in and the crash wouldn't have ever happened.

 

The whole lock-out chip tech happened because of Custer's Revenge. Atari started the lockout with the encryption they had built into the 7800. It was Nintendo's reaction to the crash that gave them the idea to license third party developers and restrict them with their monopolist strategies. The Famicom itself wasn't as locked down as the later NES was.

Great points. And Nintendo was really a very different corporate culture than Atari. But looking at the Famicom, it's got a lot more in common with the "second wave" consoles in that there is virtually no software protection anywhere. So the NES was a very real and legitimate answer to the video game crash of '83. Never mind that the lockout did not prevent companies from finding a workaround. Unlicensed titles did thrive for a bit despite the lawsuits. They hold a special place to me regarding NES collecting due to their uniqueness.

 

I see a lot of special snowflake syndrome in this thread, it's what annoys me most about collectors and classic gamers in general. Everything nostalgia based some people (well, all of us, really, because we all have the same emotions for the most part) talk about is how "well it's just never gonna be Atari 2600 again. That was some real gaming" or "it's never gonna be NES again. That was some real gaming". Your Atari 2600 was an arcade in your bedroom. And to us 5 or 6 years younger than you, the NES was an arcade in my bedroom. And then to the folks out there younger than me, the SNES was an arcade in their bedrooms. You're not special and neither am I. It's all the same shit, video games by different companies in your home, but the feeling we all had was virtually the same. Being a fanboy was stupid even as a kid, let alone 30 years later as adults in wars long since fought that none of us had any stake in. All Atari 2600 kids did was bit the marketing fishing line that fed them, the same as every other generation following. There's no other explanation. No one played one console because it was better or worse, for the most part we all just had what was popular and best priced for the times. Our experiences were all the same except it was a slightly different time period. So we all know exactly how the other one feels in regards to growing up with games. The names and games have been changed, but it was the exact same at the core.

 

I pretty much easily explained it way back in the thread why retro gamers may skip Atari and it's because there aren't as many fans out there or if there are, they certainly aren't as vocal and passionate in the internet presence as NES fans. Furthermore, Nintendo is still around in the spotlight, sure the Wii U is shitting the bed, but the Wii sold the most units last gen. And the DS line is the most popular handhelds ever. They play Mario games on new consoles and can easily go back via the Wii Shop to buy the old NES Marios to introduce themselves. They don't have to get on a computer and do video game homework to find NES, they would have to to discover Atari. While retro gaming is popular as a niche, you gotta remember the masses would scoff at NES too when presented with it. The NES is most popular, but it's not like there's one in every kid's household.

You bring up another excellent point. Time after time I hear of gamers on AtariAge forums who cut their teeth on Atari, then graduated to either of the two 'visions and from their gamed on computers for most of the late 80s. This was especially prevalent in Europe where the SMS and 8-bit computers managed to steal at least some of Nintendo's market share. Every time I hear someone complain about the Nintendo generation and how he/she "skipped" the NES/SNES years entirely, I cannot help but notice that this individual is essentially guilty of the same act as the Nintendo fanboys for skipping Atari: to dismiss an entire generation of gaming entirely, simply because the person does not agree with the aesthetics or some other frivolous reason. And that's perfectly acceptable. Not everyone likes the same things.

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You're a good sport. :)

 

But how many examples of such rush jobs were there, really? (This is an honest question.) Besides Pac-Man and E.T., which everyone knows, or maybe Raiders of The Lost Ark. Defender, maybe? I'd argue that if QA was an afterthought at Atari--and I'm not completely convinced that's true, despite a few high-profile examples to the contrary--then they were fast on their way to rectifying that; most of Atari's 2600 titles from the end of 1982 onward were, by most accounts, pretty good. Look at Centipede, Galaxian, Phoenix, Vanguard, Ms. Pac-Man, Millipede, Battlezone, Joust, Stargate, etc. Those silver-label titles were as good as anything Activision or Imagic were doing (except the Swordquest games, those suck :P ). I can't think of a 5200 game Atari released that I would objectively call "bad."

 

Can't argue with you there. Atari/Corp. really knew how to shit the bed with its pack-in games. From Super Breakout (5200), Pole Position II (7800), and the trifecta of Missile Command, Bug Hunt, and Flight Simulator II (XEGS) to Cybermorph (Jaguar) and Blue Lightning (Jaguar CD), there's quite a rap sheet there. At least the 5200 later came with Pac-Man, but the damage was done.

 

In Mattel's defense, Astrosmash was arguably the Intellivision's killer app for a time. Mattel didn't have the arcade licenses Atari did and the Intellivision didn't really have any third-party support until 1982. They started bundling Burgertime (one of the few notable arcade licenses they were able to secure) with the Intellivision II, so at least they were trying.

 

At the time, only Atari Inc had their own arcade division which generated quite a lot of the hits that appeared on the 2600, A8, and 5200 and consequently beat the eff out of Mattel. Nintendo had a bit of that synergy when they came into the console market but then their arcade division died. Sega perhaps did it second best [years after] after Atari Inc. Tramiel's later Atari Corp foolishly thought they could get the Atari brand back into the console business without the brand's arcade division which was a total strategic disaster/blunder. Buying an Atari 7800 expecting the latest Atari arcade hits on it and then rudely discovering those hits were exclusively being ported to the NES instead was a total gut punch.

 

During Atari's heyday, Michael Katz at Coleco wisely grabbed the rights to arcade titles that either eluded Atari or Atari didn't like. For example, Nintendo originally approached Atari Coin to distribute Donkey Kong outside of Japan. Atari Coin's engineers hated it and thought it sucked so not only did they pass on the option to license and distribute that hit, Atari Consumer didn't land the console rights to it after it became a hit. Atari Consumer didn't want to pay the high royalty to Nintendo for the console rights - and Nintendo was being ridiculous about it and demanding a far higher cut than the industry standard - but Katz jumped in and paid it despite Coleco's owner being just as much a cheap-ass as Jack Tramiel was famously known to be [mind you, for the sake of not confusing people here, Jack was still at Commodore at that time]. Had Coleco not scored Donkey Kong, the Colecovision wouldn't have been the success it was. I doubt Venture or Mouse Trap would've sold a quarter of the consoles that Donkey Kong was responsible for. Zaxxon as a pack-in would've appealed to the male demographic but certainly not the female demographic that Donkey Kong - like Pac-Man & Ms. Pac-Man before it - successfully appealed to. In hindsight, Atari Consumer should've paid the price Nintendo demanded because that would've caused all of the licensing deals would've dramatically increased and only Atari could've paid them meaning Coleco and Mattel would've continued being also-rans.

 

Mattel's Intellivision had better graphics and sound than the 2600 - but certainly not the Atari 8-bit computers or the later 5200 - but it mainly only had original games and rip-offs of arcade hits. It also had lame controllers and an asshole of a pitchman who probably turned off far more potential consumers than the ones that actually bought the console. As a 5 year old watching the Intellivision commercials prior to owning the 2600, I thought George Plimpton was a jerk and I didn't want any product associated with him. My dad wanted the Intellivision for the sports games but a trip down to Sears and trying out those shitty controllers had him changing his mind quickly.

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5200 may have been a commercial flop, but it's no Virtual Boy. 5200, 7800, and Lynx were all soft flops. Each sold in numbers and had a decent library. Jaguar on the other hand floped hard. But words cannot even describe the level of fail that is the Virtual Boy. Best summed up in this rocket launch video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BldHM3NfIw

 

The 5200 sold between 1-2 million in North America before Warner had Atari pull the plug. The 7800 sold 4+ million in North America alone and that's for having been released 2 years later than planned and without the Atari Coin/Games company/division providing all of their new hits and arguably almost no 3rd Party support due to Nintendo's illegal monopolistic practices. The Lynx apparently sold about 4 million world wide but despite 3rd Party developers still intimidated by Nintendo, at least the Lynx had access to the Atari Games library. Once again, the Jaguar lost out on the Atari Games library due to a major disagreement between Atari Corp & Atari Games which was later solved by [Time] Warner but too late to fix the damage.

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None of those were actually made by Atari (Zaxxon and DK Jr. were released by Coleco, Empire Strikes Back by Parker Bros, and it isn't an arcade port). Zaxxon is actually a pretty fun game on it's own merits, but as a port it's terrible. ESB was one of the earliest (maybe the earliest?) uses of parallax scrolling. Not the most inventive gameplay, but not a horrible game.

 

Donkey Kong Jr. is garbage.

 

Why are you willing to forgive Nintendo for the bad third party games released for the NES, but so eager to blame Atari for everything released for the VCS? While Atari had absolutely no control over the games released by third parties, NES games had to be approved and manufactured by Nintendo, regardless of the developer.

 

I guess you need to do a little more "critical thinking" on your part.

 

Who the hell on Earth thinks 2600 Empire Strikes Back is terrible? That was one of the best third-party games for the 2600 and it was a huge hit! I paid for that sucker with bags of aluminum cans I had collected from the neighborhood and recycled for cash. And Jedi Arena was fun if you had a 2nd player. It was certainly more fun than the follow-up Masters of Terras Kasi (sic) for the PS1 years later!

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I don't think the Activision people splitting off into their own entity was a bad thing, it was perhaps the best thing because since then every major console has had majorly wicked software libraries thanks to first & third party support. Atari was basically the first to the dance, got huge and fucked it up. Nintendo was second to the dance, learned from Atari's failures and never fucked up. Though I feel no need to kick Atari when they were down when the system was still so great. The circumstances that Atari found themselves in with shitty games sucks for them, but they made so many poor decisions that I don't feel the need to defend them to the moon, either. They certainly didn't help themselves too much. Somebody's gotta lose so others can win. I mean, Nintendo went to Atari to work with them. It's not like they didn't have their chance at redemption only to fumble that as well because of petty bullshit. Hindsight is 20/20, but I don't see how a company losing so much money with no future in sight besides fledgling systems wouldn't adopt a system with great graphics and games already in the can waiting to be released. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but I can't blame Activision employees or Nintendo because Atari shit the bed. I'm no businessman, but it seems to me billion dollar companies should have their fingers on the pulse of what's going on in their industry, the capital to make quality products that people want. It seems Atari did none of this.

 

I don't, however, think that most NES fanboys have researched the subject enough to form an opinion as to Atari being the old guard or anything like that.

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